the definitive big cypress discussion

[jedifunk]

ok, i'm sure we've discussed it at some point (and i'm sure one of you will take the time to dig up the link), but i thought i'd throw it out there again.

i was listening to parts of cypress last night. mostly songs i dont usually listen to from the night, and came away really impressed (duh).  the big hits are obvious and easy to call, but i found some of the lesser talked about jams very detailed and very well played... the whole night was so "on point".

specifically, i enjoy the bowie & reba.

so what are everyones thoughts on the greatest concert ever by anyone?

[mattstick]

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again, but I think it's way overrated - I think Phish played a lot better at several of the other festivals (Ball, Went, Lemonwheel, hell even some of Oswego), but circumstances being what they are (big attendance, Y2K, nice Florida weather, and the most fun festival they put on) keep people coming back to Big Cypress.

I just did'nt really like where Phish was at this point in '99... sure it was a monumental feat for the band to play all night, but I just don't think there's anything particularly noteable once all else has been done and said.

I'm sure people will hoot and holler about how wrong I am, but that will only further my point that Big Cypress is the most overrated show in Phishtory.  :wink:

[jedifunk]

well, i guess, i'll help that assumtion along the matt... cuz cypress, from a purely musical standpoint is a high water mark for me.  so many jams that i would consider top 3-5 for those respective songs.

dwd - definitely one of my top 3 diseases
rock n roll - top 3
roses - enjoy it better than 4-3-98
crosseyed - other than 11/2/96 my fav version
split->catapult - best split ever
antelope- top 5
sand- best version
drowned- top 5 (yes i include the after midnight jam as part of it)
2001- top 5

one of my favorite aspects of cypress, was how all the music from the entire weekend had its own vibe, distinctively & collectively... it doesnt sound like anything before or after it... like they created a feeling and atmosphere that was only present at big cypress...  and thats what i love about it.

its funny too, cuz it really doesnt get that much airplay from me... i mean it gets the same as any other show, and having the vast # of show i have, thats not all that much air time.

but when i put it on, i get back to that time & space, feeling & vibe, so quickly, and when i close my eyes, i can replay that entire weekend... and i get the chills, and my hair stands up and i get goosebumps, and my eyes well up with tears, and i want to call my wife just to tell her i love here, and i realize just how lucky i was to have witnessed 1st hand the greatest concert, by the greatest band ever!

definitely NOT overrated

[McGrupp]

Big Cypress, to me, is more of a symbol than anything else. To phish it's the peak of their career -- or at least made them ask the question "what now?"

There are definitely some great moments though. DWD, Sand, Reba, Roses, Piper, Rock and Roll (my personal highlight).

I guess it's just more the fact that they played from midnight to sunrise, etc, etc, that it's remembered the way it was.

But that's not to say there weren't countless numbers of special moments shared by both those in attendance and the band.

[jedifunk]

also, it would be foolish to say that every song they played was the best version, or has to be the best verison, but everything has to be taken into consideration...

occasion, location, song selection, quality of music (not just the jams but everything), the fact that they played all night, # of people in attendance, the sunrise, ALL OF IT!

it all makes for the greatest show ever.  i dont care what anyone says, it IS the best show ever.

sure there are bettr ghosts & tweezers, etc, but as a collective whole this weekend beats the fucking pants off everything else.

[mattstick]

Well, overrated is obviously subjective - but considering how many people list Big Cypress as the greatest Phish concert, it's pretty obvious that it is overrated and it just becomes a popular answer. 

Now I realize this will obviously go over Jedifunk's head but in the same way that the Grateful Dead's 5/8/77 performance is overrated, so is Big Cypress.  Good, obviously - best Phish concert ever?  I don't really even think it's close. 

By sheer volume there are bound to be a number of highlights, but in context you're looking at 5 or 6 songs performed over a weekends worth of 15 CDs - that's the equivilant of 12/30/97 thru 4/5/98...

[mattstick]

everything has to be taken into consideration...

occasion, location, song selection, quality of music (not just the jams but everything), the fact that they played all night, # of people in attendance, the sunrise, ALL OF IT!

it all makes for the greatest show ever.  i dont care what anyone says, it IS the best show ever.

I totally disagree with this.  Your best Phish experience?  Maybe.  The most fun weekend you ever had?  Possibly. 

Since we've been given the ability (through the recordings) to remove experience, environment, sunrise and number of people in attendance you should be able to take those things out of it and analyze the music without using those factors to enhance your judgement, a blind Phish taste test if you will.

[jedifunk]

just because so many people list it as the best, does make it overrated.

like i said, you can make a case for any number of shows, songs, jams that you prefer... but all i'm saying is that you can simply look at one aspect of it and say "oh well, this was better".  it all goes together.

so to say that a range of dates or cds is better isnt a valid arguement, IMO.

[Hicks]

As someone who wasn't there, it's always been hard to wrap my mind around this show.  I mean I can listen to two or three discs of it at a time, but really it's impossible for me to take in the hugeness of the event while listening at home. 

It may have been the greatest show ever, and certainly has some heavy hitter jams (DWD, RnR, CNP and Sand come to mind) but the fact that they played for almost ten hours on 12/31 is absolutely inconceivable to me. 

Just the fact that I can't even begin to judge this show tells me that there is something special about it, I'd almost say that it exists in a category by itself and that comparing it to other shows is fairly pointless, and is calling it "overrated". 

[jedifunk]

ok, so blind test, i'll still take cypress over anything else.

like i said, i have other versions of the songs that i may like better, but i dont see how its possible to top to cohesive feeling of the music from cypress.

and just so its clear, i'm not here to change anyones mind... thats pointless.  matt obviously isnt a huge fan of cypress, and thats his choice.

[jedifunk]

Just the fact that I can't even begin to judge this show tells me that there is something special about it, I'd almost say that it exists in a category by itself and that comparing it to other shows is fairly pointless, and is calling it "overrated". 

thats probably the best way to describe it... by not judging it against anything else.  it really is its own category.

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

The first night had MANY highlights...the main ones being...

The Curtain-->Tweezer = The Tweezer has a hugely engaging Mind Left Body jam.  Very very very good version of Tweezer coming out of "The Curtain" which is the last time I saw a "Curtain" without the "With".  I know many people prefer the Curtain With....but, on the whole, I prefer seeing the short version which usually leads into a sweet ass jam tune (like Tweezer).  Very very excellent version of tweezer.

MIKE'S SONG = It doesn't translate onto tape well (it is still listenable and kinda cool on tape), but this was probably the coolest Mike's Song I SAW LIVE.  Masterfully done, awesome theatrics.  Definite highlight of the weekend.

Run Like an Antelope = I don't think it cracks the top five antelopes for me, but it is one of the coolest ones I've seen live if not for the actual jam, but the keyboard duel between Trey and Mike which is one of the few times I didn't want to run on stage and break his keyboard in half.

New Years Day and night had some good shit too...of which a lot has already been mentioned...

Split-->Catapult = EASILY MY FAVORITE SPLIT OF ALL TIMES.  Seriously, if you haven't heard this Split Open and Melt, do your self a favor and do so now.  Serious nasty improv.  It also features a great and engaging Catapult which isn't always the most melodic of tunes.  GREAT FUCKING JAM!

DwD= The boys started off on the right foot.  Great rocking tune and the LLama segue told us that the boys meant BUISNESS.

Bathtub Gin!!!!!= This Bathtub Gin is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY underrated in my opinion.  The boys extend the dooo doo do do doo doo doo singing part into the extended jam, and basically scat throughout the jam.  It's not the longest or best Bathtub Gin, but damn is it a lot of fun.  Probably the funnest Gin I've seen, and I've seen a few of the "monsters".  Again, if you haven't heard the Gin, seek it out.

You Enjoy Myself= YEM is tight, the jam is funky...but the icing here is the Vocal Jam.  I think this is the first time that I've heard a crowd vocal jamming with the band.  About 2 minutes in you hear the crowd start a "Cheesecake! (pause) Cheesecake!" chant.  It gives me chills whenever I hear it.  The chant grows and grows until the band starts a Cheesecake! Vocal Jam!.  DEFINITE HIGHLIGHT OF THE SHOW.

I think that Jedi aptly mentioned the other highlights...the biggest of which for me is the KILLER Roses from the show.  If you are a fan of the more esoteric, textural, spacier Jams, you definitely want to hear the Roses.  Good shit.

I don't know if Big Cypress is overrated, BUT I DO KNOW it was definitely "worth it".  Best Festival, hands down.  The only other festival that gives it a run for its money is the Clifford Ball, but I think in the end, everyone realises that Cypress WAS the funnest!

And mattstick, you're really being a stick in the mud.  You want us to analyze a concert without taking into account that it is actually a concert?  I CALL B.S. on your assesment of B.C.  The context of a concert should definitely be taken into consideration when analyzing that concert.  It's like this, if phish played the greatest show ever, but nobody enjoyed it...it wouldn't be the "best concert ever" simply because people wouldn't have enjoyed it.  Perhaps people would discover its greatness on tape, and decide that the music was better than they remembered, but I think that peoples enjoyment of show is definitely a factor in analyzing it.

And that said, I know of NOONE who was at Big Cypress and doesn't consider it either their favorite Phish concert or one of the top five concerts they've seen.  For that fact alone, do I think it should be considerable as the greatest Phish concert.  90,000 phish heads can't be wrong

[mattstick]

I'm not saying that 12/30/97 thru 4/5/98 is "better" (even though it clearly is), I'm saying that by sheer volume you're bound to find a number of great performances over the Big Cypress weekend.

ok, so blind test, i'll still take cypress over anything else.

I think that's a poor choice really, and I'm somewhat surprised by that.

and just so its clear, i'm not here to change anyones mind... thats pointless.  matt obviously isnt a huge fan of cypress, and thats his choice.

You're sortof misquoting me here - I loved Big Cypress, I had an amazing time and it's a weekend I'll never forget.  I think they played some exceptional music that weekend, but in the larger picture (Phishtory) I just think it's average, and highly overrated.

[sophist]

I like alot of the cypress jams,but its not my # 1.

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

Phan, I'm curious as to what show you saw that you thought was a better concert than big cypress?