08/12 - Outside Lands Festival - San Francisco, CA - Post-Show Discussion/Review

[Buffalo Budd]

And Sophist, this sort of shit has been going on since day 1 though.  It's not like 3.0 is that much of a change other than new substances have become preevalent that were not readily available or not as popular back in the day.  I was chatting with a friend last Summer at one of the shows I hit that said while he was touring back in the early to mid-90's, they were doing copious amounts of LSD.  Dosing multiple times pre, during and after the show.  He said sometimes they would have no idea who they were, where they were or how much they took.  Just pouring it onto eachothers palms.  I guess for some, this can enhance the music, not deter from it.  My last point would be to the notion that non jamband fans don't party.  I've seen tons of people completely out of it at other 'mainstream' shows, maybe not on Mars, but so completely sauced that they can hardly stand up.  If that means healthier, I have to beg to differ.  Music involves partying, whether that be to the extreme, or within your limits (some, like you may have a higher tolerance).  Doesn't mean you are not critiquing the music while you indulge.

[sophist]

And Sophist, this sort of shit has been going on since day 1 though.  It's not like 3.0 is that much of a change other than new substances have become preevalent that were not readily available or not as popular back in the day.  I was chatting with a friend last Summer at one of the shows I hit that said while he was touring back in the early to mid-90's, they were doing copious amounts of LSD.  Dosing multiple times pre, during and after the show.  He said sometimes they would have no idea who they were, where they were or how much they took.  Just pouring it onto eachothers palms.  I guess for some, this can enhance the music, not deter from it.  My last point would be to the notion that non jamband fans don't party.  I've seen tons of people completely out of it at other 'mainstream' shows, maybe not on Mars, but so completely sauced that they can hardly stand up.  If that means healthier, I have to beg to differ.  Music involves partying, whether that be to the extreme, or within your limits (some, like you may have a higher tolerance).  Doesn't mean you are not critiquing the music while you indulge.

I'm not saying it has gotten worse, I'm saying it's kind of laughable to act like a majority of the people there are 100% focused on the music, they're not.  If you're talking a DMB concert or any huge act, yeah, many people are sauced.  But these smaller shows I've been seeing, it's a different crowd.  Indie fans are a lot different than jam band fans.  At both Animal Collective shows I saw, I was in the super minority both nights.  I only puffed at Alpharetta, and I got spun at MPP.  I people watched both nights, the bulk of fans weren't drinking, and I saw almost no smoking. 

You're rationalizing use here, and that's fine.  I do the same.  I just also recognize my rationalizations and justifications for said use.  I rage harder than most, after all, it's why George nicknamed me the "conductor" because I can be fucking crazy when it comes to tripping.  It's what I like to do.  I just find myself wondering if it really is enhancing my experience or if I'm just making justifications for partying/raging. 

[VA $l!m]

so this is the thread to debate whether or not someone goes to phish for the "right" reasons?
cool. :roll:

[Buffalo Budd]

I just find myself wondering if it really is enhancing my experience or if I'm just making justifications for partying/raging.

I see, okay then, carry on.  I've done Phish sober (3 shows I think) and not, I gotta say, I enjoy the realizations and trippiness of a spun show just a hair more.  Not to say I didn't have fun at the early sober ones I caught, just that, imo, I enjoy myself even more when a 'mind-enhancer' is added to the mix.  Maybe helps me cut loose a bit, I don't know.
And I have never thought of phish as an excuse for those types of nights but more as a reason.  I never do it at any other shows, definitely not in the last 6 or so years.

[jedifunk]

I just find myself wondering if it really is enhancing my experience or if I'm just making justifications for partying/raging.

I see, okay then, carry on.  I've done Phish sober (3 shows I think) and not, I gotta say, I enjoy the realizations and trippiness of a spun show just a hair more.  Not to say I didn't have fun at the early sober ones I caught, just that, imo, I enjoy myself even more when a 'mind-enhancer' is added to the mix.  Maybe helps me cut loose a bit, I don't know.
And I have never thought of phish as an excuse for those types of nights but more as a reason.  I never do it at any other shows, definitely not in the last 6 or so years.

not that this thread isn't already totally jacked, but i'm gonna chime in here.

i've seen approximately 200 shows, and saw well over 80% of those sober (i consider puffing to be sober).  the party favors (E & L) were only fun during 99-00 when jams were of the groove based, dance till ya drop variety.

regardless of spun or unspun, i have ALWAYS been there for the music, first and foremost.  i do not need the stimulant to enjoy a show, or to listen with a critical ear.

i agree that for many people the music is secondary, and sometimes even farther down the list.  thats fine by me, just don't come around and think that i will find your opinion valid when discussing the music.

[Gumbo72203]

Phan brings the tr00f. 

I have to agree, with both of you (phan and Budd).  However, I think that Phan has the edge in his perspective on the scene.  Granted, i'm not sure how much of it Trey actually sees or realizes; unless he's cruising the lots or has informants, its hard to see people snorting coke 30 rows back when you're up on the stage.

I think he knows its going on, but I'm not sure.  Either way, I have to agree with Budd in that this thing has always gone on.  However, I think the scene today has devolved in a manner that heavily favors and caters to the more destructive, mind-closing, soul-eating substances like ketamine, cocaine, opiates, amphetamines, etc.  Granted, a drug is a drug, but I would think that nearly any person could understand the difference between a scene thats favoring personal exploration and transcendence via mushrooms and LSD vs. one that concentrates solely on the ego-centered fixes of morphine, oxycontin, adderall, molly....

And I include molly because for all the empathetic and social qualities MDMA possesses, I fully believe most molly sold in the lots is not completely MDMA, and probably mostly speed/amphetamine additives. 

Regardless, the high is ego-centered, and the social feelings are generated out of a craving for self-satisfaction and a desire for self-pleasure. 

[WhatstheUse?]

My stance does not change. I cant think of a single person from this board whose main reason for seeing phish is NOT the music.

The people I seem to party with most love this band and their music with more exuberance than most.

[Gumbo72203]

Right, and WTU is correct.

I mean, the issue is always up for debate though.... whether we *need* pot and molly to enjoy the music to the most degree.

I think it comes down to transcendence...    because drugs help you transcend reality in a way that is just physically not possible otherwise.  And since Phish is such a danceable, transcendental band, I feel that drugs simply allow the experience to be pushed that much further. 

Granted, you *should* be able to enjoy Phish sober.  And I can.  I mean, every morning when I drive to work, and I'm pumping the 12/16/99 Tweezer, or the 6/23/04 Crosseyed Noblesville Jam, the 8/10/04 ACDC Bag, the 7/22/03 Gumbo and the 10/31/98 Mike's Song sounboards, I get the goosebump jam feeling.  It gets me off, and I feel electrified.  The MUSIC itself is the transcendant. 

Yet, despite the quality of Phish's music now and on a day-to-day basis, those moments of sky-shredding brilliance aren't all that common.  Phish is ALWAYS good.  Frequently GREAT.  Once or twice a show, INCREDIBLE.  But very few are those moments that, for whatever reason, somehow move beyond what is normal, and what is human, and what is typical, having blown out into the stratosphere and become a true wonder, the type of musical moment that crystalizes in your mind and etches itself into your soul.  These are pieces of music that you remember, note-for-note.... the jams that you can re-play in your mind exactly as they were played.

These moments are not so frequent in 3.0.  The Camden Sand and Tweezer?  Definitely.  The Albany Seven Below and Ghost?  I'd say so.  The Manchester Ghost -> Mango?  Oh yeah.  The Miami GBOTT?  Of course.  The Charlotte 7/2/10 Drowned with Page on the piano?  Absolutely.  The Utica Have Mercy > Piper?  No question. 


Anyway, my point is that people want to be transcended when they go see Phish.  And for better or for worse, 3.0 Phish has not been consistently transcendent.  Granted, this is purely subjective, but I think that people are doing drugs because they want to get the most out of something that they feel isn't completely delivering their desires by themselves. 


I mean, lets look at marriages.  My relationship is falling apart, so my g/f and I are sort of like... "de-relationshipping" ourselves, sort of, to impose some limits and boundaries, in order to kind of "rinse out" our relationship to allow it to grow again, and to fall in love all over again.  We've done it before, and although I disagree that there was a problem (given the fact that up until only 3 weeks ago we'd consistently having some of the best sex we'd ever had, which has always been a good barometer for our relationship), she has come to a place where she isn't happy, and just needs a break from 'relationship stuff' which is understandable, given the schedule we both now have and the stage of life we're at. 

So, you need to inject some extra stuff to help things along, just like married couples who now need some extra help in getting aroused, either through porn, viagara, swinging, whatever.


Does that mean there is a quality deficiency?  Does that mean that it was better before?  No, its just different.  And sometimes we need help to get things going the way we had before, and the way that we'd like them to be. 



I think i lost track or forgot what i was trying to originally say here...

[kellerb]

I think i lost track or forgot what i was trying to originally say here...

Trey needs boner pills?

[gah]

I think i lost track or forgot what i was trying to originally say here...

Trey needs boner pills?

and the four of them need to have a swingers session with the wives?

[gainesvillegreen]

So.
The show.

Like the Tweezer. Gets to the point quick.
Like the Julius. Page shines under Trey's leads.

Everything from Birds on is solid. Best Backwards in a long while. A really good stretch of present day Phish, and well above average for Trey.