"Best Source" Discussion set up, thoughts requested

[disco]

Yeah, we could wiki it. Any volunteers to start with this tour?
We could do each show in the ISO section, one poll per show (that way I can mod the section, unless someone else wants to, but I don't mind)
Maybe after 90 days the "best source" tag or Star Rating could be pulled from the poll and added to the Wiki. The tough part with a 1-5 ratimg system is that it becomes even more subjective. Using the poll/voting system allows the voting field to be perfectly level. Everyone gets one vote that they can change. We could just put a paug symbol next to the source with the highest votes. I wonder if we should just try to get the db to do the voting system, then everything would be in one place. Dan or Jason...is that a potential for the db? They prolly have something already that we haven't noticed.

[Superfreakie]

Yeah, we could wiki it. Any volunteers to start with this tour?
We could do each show in the ISO section, one poll per show (that way I can mod the section, unless someone else wants to, but I don't mind)
Maybe after 90 days the "best source" tag or Star Rating could be pulled from the poll and added to the Wiki. The tough part with a 1-5 ratimg system is that it becomes even more subjective. Using the poll/voting system allows the voting field to be perfectly level. Everyone gets one vote that they can change. We could just put a paug symbol next to the source with the highest votes. I wonder if we should just try to get the db to do the voting system, then everything would be in one place. Dan or Jason...is that a potential for the db? They prolly have something already that we haven't noticed.

A 1-5 rating system would be a mess because then we would have to factor in a bunch of really subjective numbers for every single source and take the median for each show which could render our attempt at some semblance of objectivity useless. Plus, there are some sources that need not even be assessed. But, one problem with a single vote poll, is if we go selecting one favorite, then a great source may be dropped out of circ. The best example I can think of is Davis' Red Rocks B&K vs Lutch's Mk4v. Many, including myself in the beginning, immediately singled out the B&K's as the best source. However, when I ran the B&Ks vs the 24 bit mk4v through my real system, you'd have to be deaf to not hear that the mk4v pwns the B&K. But again, not everyone has the luxury of a kicking system, and the B&K, I believe, sounds better on mid range systems. However, with only one vote, let's say the B&K's get 80% of vote and then the other 20% goes to Taylor Caines source (votes by those judging sources with their mp3>ipod>earbud), then the mk4 gets pushed out. However, with two votes, those with decent playback systems would most likely go B&K then mk4v and then we would have the two best sources.....is this making any sense...no, probably not, it is 5 in the morning....I'm going to bed.

[drvinestein]

I'd be happy to add the info to the wiki.  I love that thing!

I probably won't be involved too much in the individual source discussions, but if you either want to start a separate thread for best sources or PM me the info, I can edit the show pages with the week4paug best source picks.  If the show is released by LivePhish, then you do not need to give me that because links to lp.com are already entered as part of the info.

All I would need from you guys is:
The date
A link to the source on db.etree.org
and whatever information you want included
Maybe a link to the voting thread

It would look something like this on the show page:
Week4paug's Best Source Picks (or if you have some other catchy name)
* http://db.etree.org/sourceID
    ** Voted on by 12 week4paug members; best on a home stereo
* http://db.etree.org/sourceID
    ** Voted on by 8 week4paug members; best on headphones
*Check out the voting thread here:
    ** http://weekypaug.net/thevotingthread

And I could tweak it however many times needed until everything's cool.  Just keep me in the loop of what to change.  I'm usually on the wiki doing some type of editing every day.

I will be gone all of next week, but after that I'm down for whatever.

[drvinestein]

Yeah, we could wiki it. Any volunteers to start with this tour?
We could do each show in the ISO section, one poll per show (that way I can mod the section, unless someone else wants to, but I don't mind)
Maybe after 90 days the "best source" tag or Star Rating could be pulled from the poll and added to the Wiki. The tough part with a 1-5 ratimg system is that it becomes even more subjective. Using the poll/voting system allows the voting field to be perfectly level. Everyone gets one vote that they can change. We could just put a paug symbol next to the source with the highest votes. I wonder if we should just try to get the db to do the voting system, then everything would be in one place. Dan or Jason...is that a potential for the db? They prolly have something already that we haven't noticed.

See my above post for the volunteering.

As far as I know, db.etree does not have some sort of voting system implemented. I also believe that if there were a system like that, the votes would get skewed over time with people rating the shows musically instead of the source itself, or not understanding.  You just show up, throw in your vote and split. 

At least with a forum-based discussion and voting, the people here (or wherever) would have a chance to discuss or do a little minor research and I think there would be more of a potential for getting a true consensus of the better sources out there.  Is it imperative that every voter discusses why they voted the way they did? No, but the option to read and discuss in a central location is there.

If you were set on getting the etree community who do not use week4paug to vote as well, you could set up the exact same voting thread on forums.etree.org, but that place is often times just a graveyard.  The same could be done on other sites such as phishhook.

Another few thoughts on the wiki:
You have most likely discussed this in this thread or elsewhere, but I think a definitive 16/44 source should be selected and a definitive 24/48, 24/96 or whatever should be selected as well (if applicable).  There are alot of people who don't collect 24bit shows (myself included at the moment) or don't have the knowledge, confidence or desire to take a 24bit show and dither down to 16bit.

Also, with the wiki, multiple best sources can be listed no problem.  That way, people can look at the individual sources and download what suits them best.  "Gee, this one should sound awesome on my stereo", or "Can't wait to listen to this one on my new headphones", or "Should I buy a Neumann or a Schoeps mic - let me see what these two sound like" - So much different criteria is involved on an individual level that the Best Of would be most helpful as a guide.  If two or more sources stand out for different reasons, it still will take 30 seconds to enter it in the wiki.

And I know how people like running various projects on bt.etree.org.  This could lead to seeding projects like "Week4paug's Best Of Fall '97" or things of that nature or as I believe Superfreakie said, it may help us to discover shows with relatively low-quality sources and find upgrades.

I myself would use a Best Of guide compiled by week4paugers as my first-stop decision maker when shopping around for sources.

[AntelopeFreeway]

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I hope this gets a few views.

I agree that it would be helpful to have a 'best sources' list.  I think it would be just as (more?) helpful for there to be a 'best shows' list.  For example, a post over at jamtopia just mentioned the Springsteen 'Best 55 Boots' list.  As an old-school Springsteen collector, I know that that list helped me to pick up on some tours that I might not have listened to otherwise. 

Phish is similar in that there are soooo many shows to listen to, that it would be great to have some way to introduce a n00b without saying...go listen to all of Fall 93 (though you'll eventually want to).  So, a Best Of is needed, IMHO

[disco]

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I hope this gets a few views.

I agree that it would be helpful to have a 'best sources' list.  I think it would be just as (more?) helpful for there to be a 'best shows' list.  For example, a post over at jamtopia just mentioned the Springsteen 'Best 55 Boots' list.  As an old-school Springsteen collector, I know that that list helped me to pick up on some tours that I might not have listened to otherwise. 

Phish is similar in that there are soooo many shows to listen to, that it would be great to have some way to introduce a n00b without saying...go listen to all of Fall 93 (though you'll eventually want to).  So, a Best Of is needed, IMHO

fall 93 is the shit, just get that, you'll be fine.

A best shows list would be so hard. The subjectivity involved would be staggering. There is nothing like seeing the band live, pair that we a few of the other common things one may experience at a show and it's hard to separate your emotions and ears when it comes to shows you've attended.
Though I'm betting there's enough of us here with enough experience in trying to separate the two, we could prolly pick a top 5 for each year without too much arguing.

[AntelopeFreeway]

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I hope this gets a few views.

I agree that it would be helpful to have a 'best sources' list.  I think it would be just as (more?) helpful for there to be a 'best shows' list.  For example, a post over at jamtopia just mentioned the Springsteen 'Best 55 Boots' list.  As an old-school Springsteen collector, I know that that list helped me to pick up on some tours that I might not have listened to otherwise. 

Phish is similar in that there are soooo many shows to listen to, that it would be great to have some way to introduce a n00b without saying...go listen to all of Fall 93 (though you'll eventually want to).  So, a Best Of is needed, IMHO

fall 93 is the shit, just get that, you'll be fine.

A best shows list would be so hard. The subjectivity involved would be staggering. There is nothing like seeing the band live, pair that we a few of the other common things one may experience at a show and it's hard to separate your emotions and ears when it comes to shows you've attended.
Though I'm betting there's enough of us here with enough experience in trying to separate the two, we could prolly pick a top 5 for each year without too much arguing.

Well, as a starter, I think just picking a top 5 of each tour would be a great start, and probably not extremely difficult.  When I started out, I found the list of "classic" shows at phish.net, and used that along with the classic tours list to start my listening.  Again, just think it would be helpful...I think as 3.0 continues there will be more new traffic and the question will come up more often.