Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)

[sls.stormyrider]

I honestly think he doesn't need to take a stand on weed, and it is probably politically expedient for him not to. so why bother

for now anyway

[Hicks]

Not that Oregon matters, but I'll vote for him over Hillary. 

[rowjimmy]

If he can pull Hillary to the left, and secure himself a VP slot or cabinet position, I'm all for this. Not knowing the outcome ahead of time, I'm thrilled at the prospects of this candidacy.

This.

As long as he doesn't Nader this thing, I think he's a welcome addition to the discussion.

Even an heir apparent needs some shaping and questioning. I look forward to his candidacy shaping hers for the better.

[sunrisevt]

I honestly think he doesn't need to take a stand on weed, and it is probably politically expedient for him not to. so why bother

for now anyway

Yeah, about that... for all I support the move against  :smoke: prohibition, Vermont has had a huge, growing, and under-appreciated problem with pills (benzos & opioids, natch) and big H for almost 20 years now. Some caution about possibly opening the floodgates is pretty sensible, imo.

[runawayjimbo]

he is on the Thom Hartmann radio show every friday telling the truth.  i always tune in.

He talks about how socialism is a demonstrably failed ideological experiment that has resulted in abject human suffering in each instance it was attempted?

no, more like how no system in history (capitalism) has been more relentless in battering down ancient and fragile cultures, devouring the resources of whole regions, pulverizing centuries-old practices in a matter of years, and standardizing the varieties of human experience.

You misspelled "lifting millions of people out of poverty, creating new technologies to reduce dependence on natural resources, improving human rights, and fostering greater acceptance of alternative ideas/cultures/ways of life."

I have a lot of respect for Bernie as a public servant who consistently fights for what he believes is right (even if I disagree with it) and who does not change his message based on his audience (reminds me of another former Congressman). But I gotta say, I think you guys are getting a little a head of yourselves about his impact on Hillary's candidacy. Yes, his run is largely symbolic and meant to move Hillary to the left on foreign policy and economic reforms. But I think he will just highlight what a truly contemptible candidate Hillary really is. Or, even if he does succeed in getting her to say the right things, I have a hard time believing she will follow through with the rhetoric when her donor list looks like this:

via OpenSecrets.org

That said, Taibbi is a big fan.

[ytowndan]

http://www.c-span.org/video/?325700-1/senator-bernie-sanders-ivt-news-conference

[VDB]

That said, Taibbi is a big fan.

Good read (so far; I'm not done).

Thus this whole question of "seriousness" – which will dominate coverage of the Sanders campaign – should really be read as a profound indictment of our political system, which is now so openly an oligarchy that any politician who doesn't have the blessing of the bosses is marginalized before he or she steps into the ring.

[runawayjimbo]

Well this is fucked on so many levels.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/us/garland-mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/

Two killed outside Mohammed cartoon contest in Garland, Texas

A cartoon contest featuring controversial images of the Muslim Prophet Mohammed turned deadly Sunday night when two men pulled up in a car and opened fire. Police returned fire, killing both men after one wounded a security guard.

None of the approximately 200 people attending the event were hurt.

While authorities haven't offered an explanation for the shooting, it bears similarities to the attacks this year on events in France and Denmark featuring images of Mohammed, which some Muslims believe is blasphemous.

The keynote speaker at the event in Garland was right-wing Dutch politician Geert Wilders, who was placed on an al Qaeda hit list. It was organized by the American Freedom Defense Initiative -- considered an anti-Muslim group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups.

"The Islamic jihadis are determined to suppress our freedom of speech violently." Pamela Geller, president of the American Freedom Defense Initiative, told CNN. "They struck in Paris and Copenhagen recently, and now in Texas."

Authorities haven't released any details about the men, including their identities, religion or motive. FBI agents were searching the Phoenix apartment where they lived, said John Iannarelli, assistant special agent in charge of the agency's Phoenix office.

They haven't found anyone else at the apartment and are working to collect evidence, he said.

Exchange lasted seconds

The men drove up to the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, got out of their car and began shooting just as the "Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest" inside was ending around 7 p.m. (8 p.m. ET), according to police.

An unarmed security guard, Bruce Joiner, was shot in the ankle. He was later treated at a hospital and released, Garland police spokesman Joe Harn told reporters.

Garland police, who were helping with security, fired back, killing both gunmen. The exchange lasted about 15 seconds, police said.

"The first suspect was shot immediately," Garland Mayor Douglas Athas told CNN. "The second suspect was wounded and reached for his backpack. He was shot again."

"We have no other indication that anyone else was involved," Athas said.

Early Monday morning, FBI and local officials were checking the gunmen's vehicle for explosives, and the area around the center was blocked off.

Surrounding businesses were evacuated, as were attendees from the Curtis Culwell Center.

There is no immediate threat to the area, police said; the check for explosives was a precautionary measure.

"It's a very slow, tedious operation that goes on," Harn said.

Heavy security for event

The American Freedom Defense Initiative said it specifically picked the venue, a school district-owned facility, because it hosted an event denouncing Islamophobia in January.

The Sunday night event invited cartoonists to send in caricatures of Mohammed. The group said it received more than 350 submissions. The winning entry would get $10,000.

There were about 200 people at the event, police said.

"Most of the people who were there were from out of state," Athas said.

Security was tight. The school district brought in extra officers, and the group itself hired several more. Security costs, the group said, were upwards of $30,000.

Only those who purchased tickets ahead of time were admitted. They had to go through metal detectors.

"We were prepared for something like this," Harn said.

Shortly after the shooting, a man in military fatigues interrupted the gathering to herd the attendees into an auditorium.

"There was an incident outside," the officer said. "Two suspects have been shot. Possibly have explosives on 'em, OK? I just need everybody to remain calm, become orderly, and we're going to take you into the auditorium a little further away from the front of this building. All right?"

Someone asked, "Were the suspects Muslim?"

"I have no idea right now," he responded.

Depiction considered blasphemy

Many Muslims consider depictions of Mohammed blasphemous.

The prohibition against illustrating the prophet began as an attempt to ward off idol worship, which was widespread in Islam's Arabian birthplace. But in recent years, it has taken a deadly toll.

In January, gunmen attacked the offices of Charlie Hebdo, a French satirical magazine that has a controversial history of depicting Mohammed, and killed 12 people.

The next month, a gunman attacked a free speech forum in Copenhagen, Denmark, featuring cartoonist Lars Vilks, who infuriated al Qaeda with his depictions of Mohammed.

In the United States, cartoonist Molly Norris is still in hiding, four years after she depicted the likeness of Mohammed on several items and was deemed a "prime target" for execution by Islamic extremists.

Shortly after the Sunday night shooting, a prominent Muslim leader in Dallas tweeted about it.

"The community stayed away from event," Imam Zia Sheikh wrote. "Seems like a lone wolf type of attack. Just what we didn't want."

'Freedom of speech is under violent assault'

Wilders, the Dutch politician who was the keynote speaker at the Garland event, is controversial for his anti-Islam views. He was placed on an al Qaeda hit list for his film "Fitna."

The film, which Wilders released online in March 2008 to international outcry, features disturbing images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from the Quran in an apparent attempt to paint Islam as a threat to Western society.

In 2011, Wilders was cleared of charges of inciting discrimination and hatred with the movie.

"The day we give away humor and freedom of speech is the day that we cease to exist as a free and independent people," he told the attendees at the Garland event Sunday night.

Likewise, the American Freedom Defense Initiative is known for its anti-Muslim stance.

Geller, its president, is "the anti-Muslim movement's most visible and flamboyant figurehead," the SPLC says.

"Who designated the SPLC as a legitimate authority? They are a radical leftist group who targets patriots, vets and even GOP presidential candidates," she told CNN. "They have never named a jihadi group as a hate group."

A conservative blogger, she first gained national attention with her group, "Stop the Islamization of America," and its vocal opposition to an Islamic community center planned near the site of New York's ground zero, where the twin towers of the World Trade Center were destroyed by Islamist hijackers on September 11, 2001.

She said Sunday night that she wasn't expecting such an attack but wasn't surprised that it happened.

"This incident shows how much needed our event really was. The freedom of speech is under violent assault here in our nation. The question now before us: Will we stand and defend it or bow to violence, thuggery and savagery?"

The relevance of the venue

Because of the Sunday night shooting, the Garland Independent School District canceled Advanced Placement testing at the Curtis Culwell Center.

The center is owned by the school district and rented out for sporting events, concerts and other gatherings.

In January, it rented the facility for an event titled "Stand with the Prophet," which was meant to counter Islamophobia after the Charlie Hebdo attack. It drew several hundred attendees and about 200 protesters, and went off without incident.

Culwell Center Director John Wilborn told The Dallas Morning News that the venue has yet to turn down an event because of content.

As for Geller, she said she plans on holding similar events.

"I will not abridge my freedoms so as not to offend savages," she said.

[rowjimmy]

Fucked on many levels indeed.

Exercising hate under the guise free speech so as to incite ire? I feel bad for the security guard. Why couldn't a proper asshole get hurt in addition to the guys who rolled up with guns?

I hope things remain peaceful at their upcoming International Blackface Crop-Picking Competition in August.

Free Speech Rules!

[runawayjimbo]

I must need another cup of coffee because I coulda swore you just implied we should place limits on speech.

[rowjimmy]

I must need another cup of coffee because I coulda swore you just implied we should place limits on speech.

I certainly did not imply that.

I certainly did imply that the organizers of said event are hate inciting bigots carrying forth their hate beneath the banner of free speech and that it's a shame none of them were hurt for their cause.

[runawayjimbo]

I must need another cup of coffee because I coulda swore you just implied we should place limits on speech.

I certainly did not imply that.

I certainly did imply that the organizers of said event are hate inciting bigots carrying forth their hate beneath the banner of free speech and that it's a shame none of them were hurt for their cause.

Yeah, that is a real shame more people weren't hurt.

[VDB]

Intentional dickery is usually worthy of being frowned upon. Maybe sometimes people being dicks might deserve a good ass-kicking (something I fantasize about every time I read a Westboro Baptists story*), but does getting shot (and maybe killed) fit the behaviorial crime of intentionally sticking it to Muslims by soliciting Mohamad cartoons?

* To preempt any comparisons here, in the Texas case it appears the offended parties brought themselves to the speakers, rather than the other way around as it usually is with WBC.

[rowjimmy]

I must need another cup of coffee because I coulda swore you just implied we should place limits on speech.

I certainly did not imply that.

I certainly did imply that the organizers of said event are hate inciting bigots carrying forth their hate beneath the banner of free speech and that it's a shame none of them were hurt for their cause.

Yeah, that is a real shame more people weren't hurt.

Your time away has allowed your rj decorder ring to rust.
Taking me literally reads like you've a comprehension problem.

Intentional dickery is usually worthy of being frowned upon. Maybe sometimes people being dicks might deserve a good ass-kicking (something I fantasize about every time I read a Westboro Baptists story*), but does getting shot (and maybe killed) fit the behaviorial crime of intentionally sticking it to Muslims by soliciting Mohamad cartoons?

* To preempt any comparisons here, in the Texas case it appears the offended parties brought themselves to the speakers, rather than the other way around as it usually is with WBC.

I am officially opposed to the use of guns for anything other than hunting for snacks so, yeah, I agree that this shit sucks all around.
The org running the show were being deliberately provocative and got, while perhaps not the worst possible outcome, a really shitty one.

[emay]

what in the fuck

it baffles me that they even have this event.

thats like a group of white people having a "black face, paint party", actually this is probably worse than that.