Clinton Update......

[bacchist]

Didn't Bushy puss out in Vietnam?

nah i think bush senior was actually legitimately brave... it's his son that was/is a pussy

[bacchist]

George Jr. is a black mark fo sho.

the whole family is a black mark.  just look at how they rose to power... they're evil.

[susep]

nah i think bush senior was actually legitimately brave... it's his son that was/is a pussy

I should have been clearer as I'm completely aware of both GW's military history :wink:

[susep]

the whole family is a black mark.  just look at how they rose to power... they're evil.

look what sending out a few xmas cards can do

[Hicks]

It's funny I hated Bush Sr. at the time, but in retrospect he wasn't that bad, at least he had common sense.

It's kind of sad how far our standards have fallen because of W., yet another erosion due to the current administration.

And yeah susep you're right, global warming is far more important than any of the other problems I mentioned. 

*sigh* If only Al had won convincingly enough to take office, I'm quite certain that we would have made significant progress in slowing the environmental degradation of our planet.

[sls.stormyrider]

It seems apparent our society has difficulty addressing long standing issues when the time to act is quickly evaporating. 

that's one of the major problems.
the environment, the economy, social security - even personal credit use. we are a spend now, pay later society. it is catching up. problem is no one has the balls to attack the tough problems - partly cause the special interests will attack, partly cause the $ dictates the status quo.

another is that we are a cult of personality (make a great song title, dontcha think?) Obama is being treated like a god. he's smart, but has he done enough to prove himself?

[sophist]

It's funny I hated Bush Sr. at the time, but in retrospect he wasn't that bad, at least he had common sense.

It's kind of sad how far our standards have fallen because of W., yet another erosion due to the current administration.

And yeah susep you're right, global warming is far more important than any of the other problems I mentioned. 

*sigh* If only Al had won convincingly enough to take office, I'm quite certain that we would have made significant progress in slowing the environmental degradation of our planet.

Don't you find it kind of fucked up that: Mr. Gore travels around on his private jet to discuss global warming(his rate to speak is pretty high too)? His Inconvenient Truth DVD is 40$ ? 
I for one think its hypocritical, just like Obama gave a global warming speech the other day, then left in his "cozy" SUV. 

[mattstick]

I saw the Inconvienent Truth DVD for $27 CDN, and it was packaged with less plastic materials than most DVDs, which is more expensive.

Given Gore's powerful message, the environmental "damage" of travelling by plane is easily off-set by the initiative for change he presents.

But go on towing the right-wing line - perhaps we'd all be better off with nobody doing anything and letting Dick Cheney's energy "policy" continue unfettered... ?  :roll:

[Hicks]

From the Inconvenient Truth website:

The DVD is packaged to make the smallest possible environmental footprint - it is made of 100% post-consumer waste recycled paper, no excess materials, and absolutely no plastics. A portion of the proceeds from the sale of this DVD will benefit the bipartisan climate effort, The Alliance for Climate Protection.

I have no doubt that Al Gore donates large sums of money to environmental causes, but really what he chooses to charge for speaking engagements and how he gets there is none of my business.

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

It's funny I hated Bush Sr. at the time, but in retrospect he wasn't that bad, at least he had common sense.

It's kind of sad how far our standards have fallen because of W., yet another erosion due to the current administration.

And yeah susep you're right, global warming is far more important than any of the other problems I mentioned. 

*sigh* If only Al had won convincingly enough to take office, I'm quite certain that we would have made significant progress in slowing the environmental degradation of our planet.

Ikki, I feel exactly the same way.  EXACTLY.  Instead of villifying the office of the presidency as the Democratic parties current strategy to gain votes, I wish they would foster a need to once again HONOR the seat of the presidency.  I may not like George W. Bush, but he is our damn president, and while I do hold him to higher standards than he seems to hold himself, I still respect the fact that his job is a mother fucking difficult ass job especially considering the fact that it seems that a part of his current job is preventing a global war.  Perhaps you may think that his way of preventing global war is flaccid at best, but I do actually think that Bush does really at heart want to do the right thing.

HOWEVER.

He sucks at actually being the president.

Sure he is good at schmoozing other politicians, but as a diplomat (one of bush's major jobs) he fails miserably.

Bush Sr. on the other hand was an AMAZING diplomat.  Bush Sr. attended Hirohito's funeral.  Hirohito was almost solely responsible for America entering WWII.  That takes some great courage and diplomacy to set aside those kinds of personal feelings to support a man that was probably as cold and callous as Hitler was.

If I was Barack Obama, I'd travel in a bulletproof SUV too.  Presidential hopefulls of his caliber are prone to sniper attacks.

As far as issues I'm concerned with....here they are....

1.)Fostering a Peace between America and the Terrorists that hate America.
2.)Fostering a Peace between the Koreans and the Japanese and the Chinese
3.)Fostering a Peace in India
4.)Convincing Muslims worldwide that Americans do not want to subjugate them or tell them how to think.  Convincing them that we aren't in fact devils.
5.)Re-Honoring America.  Our nation is rich with a bloody history.  We have a lot to be proud of as a nation.  We've been through a lot.  We have way more to be proud of then we do to be ashamed of.  I'm sick and tired of people talking shit about my country.  Because when you talk shit about my country you talk shit about me.
6.)A passenger car gas tax.  I wouldn't mind seeing the price of gas soar to 5-6 bucks a gallon or more.  I'm sick and tired of biking because "It's the right thing to do" and seeing buttholes drive obnoxiously large pick up trucks or suv's by themselves without a care in the effing world.  I think the price of gas is TOO LOW right now and I don't care that gas companies are making money off the cost hike.  I hope they raise the price even more.
7.)An emphasis on a renewable sustainable america/world.   In all ways.  Steel aluminum recycling encouraged.  Glass recycling encouraged.  Electric heating encouraged.  Non coal/oil electricity encouraged.  Cycling encouraged.  Blind consumerism discouraged. 
8.)No more national debt.  Get america out of the Red, and put us in the black.
9.)Nationalized Health Care (a la canada).
10.)Marijuana Legalization.
11.) Holding our soldiers accountable for their actions when they commit atrocities world wide.
12.) Encouraging France to stabilize their dying economy
13.) Encouraging a new sweet ass jamband ala  to take over and lead the masses around to  :mrgreen: :banana:

My sincere hope and wish is that our next president is someone I can look to and respect as a leader and a person.

Bush I can respect as neither...Clinton I couldn't respect as a person.

/End Rant.

ps-Bush isn't the problem...he's a symptom of the problem...ALL OF US are the problem....which is SAD.

[mattstick]

[susep]

1.)Fostering a Peace between America and the Terrorists that hate America.

exactly, a very diffucult task but one that is achievable.  Kepping in mind that our history of diplomats has been more on the business/financial side of things we will need to call upon our leading Cultural and Social Anthropologists to engage in longstanding dialouge w/ perceived radical entities.  Discussing core differences in world view and seeking a world peace, non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, consensus.  Here the U.S. foreign policy must transform into a promoter of cultural diversity while simultaneously not imposing its own cultural footprint.
 

5.)Re-Honoring America.  Our nation is rich with a bloody history.  We have a lot to be proud of as a nation.  We've been through a lot.  We have way more to be proud of then we do to be ashamed of.

The challenges we face now and how we respond is our current measure of
"greatness".

6.)A passenger car gas tax.  I wouldn't mind seeing the price of gas soar to 5-6 bucks a gallon or more.  I'm sick and tired of biking because "It's the right thing to do" and seeing buttholes drive obnoxiously large pick up trucks or suv's by themselves without a care in the effing world.  I think the price of gas is TOO LOW right now and I don't care that gas companies are making money off the cost hike.  I hope they raise the price even more..

That is a good strategy forcing people to pay to pollute.  If we can't figure out cleaner emissions for everyone America has a great existing infrastructure for more rails.  We may have to force everyone into mass transit just to tide an
exponentially increasing global emissions problem.

7.)An emphasis on a renewable sustainable america/world.   In all ways.  Steel aluminum recycling encouraged.  Glass recycling encouraged.  Electric heating encouraged.  Non coal/oil electricity encouraged.  Cycling encouraged.  Blind consumerism discouraged.

exactly, cutting all "fluff" and only producing the essentials.  What Americans mostly forget is that our comfort comes at the expense of other people worldwide.  We must transform from a consumer to a producer society.

8.)No more national debt.  Get america out of the Red, and put us in the black.

There is plenty of money to made in sustainable/eco-friendly technologies.

9.)Nationalized Health Care (a la canada).
10.)Marijuana Legalization.

[sophist]

I saw the Inconvienent Truth DVD for $27 CDN, and it was packaged with less plastic materials than most DVDs, which is more expensive.

Given Gore's powerful message, the environmental "damage" of travelling by plane is easily off-set by the initiative for change he presents.

But go on towing the right-wing line - perhaps we'd all be better off with nobody doing anything and letting Dick Cheney's energy "policy" continue unfettered... ?  :roll:

Best Buy in Atlanta had it for 40$, more than 2x the price of any other DVD. 

where did I support the "right wing" energy policy?  please show me.  (you can't  :wink: )  But thank you for yet again putting words in my mouth. 

From the Inconvenient Truth website:

The DVD is packaged to make the smallest possible environmental footprint - it is made of 100% post-consumer waste recycled paper, no excess materials, and absolutely no plastics. A portion of the proceeds from the sale of this DVD will benefit the bipartisan climate effort, The Alliance for Climate Protection.

I have no doubt that Al Gore donates large sums of money to environmental causes, but really what he chooses to charge for speaking engagements and how he gets there is none of my business.

Thank you.  That explains it for me. 

[Guyute]

Also I would like a candidate who is fluent in both Arabic and Hebrew.

I said George Sr.

George Sr. volunteered for the armed services when the secretary of war personally told him NOT to enlist.

George was the only one in his flyboy squadron that survived WWII.

George only survived because he was lucky enough to land north of his target.


George Jr. is a black mark fo sho.

Just catching up here, and I was surprised to see this.   I am a fan of Bush Sr.  He is a brave, thoughtful, intelligent person that IMHO really does try to work for what is right.  He lost to Clinton primarily for 1 reason, "No New Taxes"  and then he had to in order to help the nation.  He put what was best for him aside in order to do what was right.  He was also the victim of Reagan's short term economic policies and a fed chief that went along with them in some respect leading to a substantial recession during his presidency.

[mattstick]

where did I support the "right wing" energy policy?  please show me.  (you can't  :wink: )  But thank you for yet again putting words in my mouth. 

Actually, I said:

perhaps we'd all be better off with nobody doing anything and letting Dick Cheney's energy "policy" continue unfettered... ?

Which is a question, and does not serve to quote you.

But I did say:

But go on towing the right-wing line

Because your political arguments seem to be about as substantial as repeating things Nancy Grace or Bill O'Reilly might have said, and don't carry any real weight.  Attacking Al Gore's chosen methods of pricing, transportation or packaging is useless in any discussion of environmental politics.