McCain or Obama or Undecided?

[gah]

Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

I'm trying to stay out of political threads, but I just wanted to comment on how much I respect this opinion.

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I am personally annoyed and frustrated with the party divide.  times are tough but I still I am proud to live in the country I live in and I want the best over the next 4 years.  I definitely have more confidence in one candidate over the other but I'm the other candidate gets in, he will have my full support for at least the next 4 years.

I think you SHOULD get involved. Otherwise this just becomes a one sided discussion. Most of us on here are open and willing to hear the other side of the story. Personally, I go out there and am actually looking for some positives from your side. I don't see very many, but I am certainly open to hearing it. Like I said in another thread, I don't think you will convince me to change my mind or I will change yours, but it's those folks that are undecided or independents that we need to work to convince. Give them (and me) reasons....

Secondly, that attitude that we should just support whoever becomes President is something I don't agree with. Without any opposition, we wouldn't be a democracy. The point of having more than one party is to open up debate. In any case, I understand your hesitance on participating in this conversation, but I sure wish you would, cause I, as well as others, I am sure, are looking for a healthy, open debate.

[DoW]

Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

I'm trying to stay out of political threads, but I just wanted to comment on how much I respect this opinion.

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I am personally annoyed and frustrated with the party divide.  times are tough but I still I am proud to live in the country I live in and I want the best over the next 4 years.  I definitely have more confidence in one candidate over the other but I'm the other candidate gets in, he will have my full support for at least the next 4 years.

I think you SHOULD get involved. Otherwise this just becomes a one sided discussion. Most of us on here are open and willing to hear the other side of the story. Personally, I go out there and am actually looking for some positives from your side. I don't see very many, but I am certainly open to hearing it. Like I said in another thread, I don't think you will convince me to change my mind or I will change yours, but it's those folks that are undecided or independents that we need to work to convince. Give them (and me) reasons....

Secondly, that attitude that we should just support whoever becomes President is something I don't agree with. Without any opposition, we wouldn't be a democracy. The point of having more than one party is to open up debate. In any case, I understand your hesitance on participating in this conversation, but I sure wish you would, cause I, as well as others, I am sure, are looking for a healthy, open debate.

the difference between "most" and all has lead to some unfortunate discussions lately.

not to mention, discussing these issues on the internet is difficult.
for example, my main point was to hope that whichever candidate gets in, I hope their policies work.  If I favor McCain's economic policy over Obama's and Obama gets in, I sure as hell hope Obama's policy works and I will support it until it fails.

it's a very difficult topic to discuss over the internet when there are differing opinions.

[DoW]

Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one's policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

[cactusfan]

more mccain scumbaggery... this guy knows no bounds...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/219235.php

i assume people read tpm regularly? one of the best political blogs, one with a staff that does original reporting, led by josh marshall, who's exceptionally smart and obsessed with the nitty gritty of politics.

[rowjimmy]

Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one’s policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

I see what you are saying, however your analogy fails when you consider that one could just leave the company and work for another.

This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

[Hicks]

What if the company is flailing, about to go out of business and one of the options is the CFO's handpicked successor?

[keeb333]

This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

Why do the people in charge always have to fuck things up for the rest of us?

It seems that, no matter which party is in power, they just keep screwing us while they're getting richer.

[DoW]

What if the company is flailing, about to go out of business and one of the options is the CFO's handpicked successor?

you rely on the board of trustees and/or shareholders (in other words congress) to keep it intact.

I can go on and on about hwo this country was meant to be run with branches of government and checks and balances.

the supreme court is problem and will continue under this corrent system.
but how many people actually vote for different parties on congress and the president?  we as irresponsible americans withour votes contribute.  and no, it is not just republicans that are irresponsible.

[DoW]

Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one's policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

I see what you are saying, however your analogy fails when you consider that one could just leave the company and work for another.

This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

I think both parties abuse the people.
I also don't see either candidate as being a great answer.  What I do see is people caring more about this election and being more involved.  Although this is all due for unfortunate reasons, I hope people will pay attention more not only to the president, but also their congressmen and local officials.  It's going to take a long time to get out of this rut we are in and in my opinion, it goes past who we put in the white house.

[rowjimmy]

Neither is perfect but I choose the ones who are closest to me on the issues that matter most.

At this point in time, the democratic candidates tend to be far closer to my ideology than the republicans on a wide range of (to me) important issues.

[keeb333]

Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

[DoW]

I would never criticize a person for whom they voted.  everyone has an opinion.
my views are closer to the right.  but I live in one of the msot liberal states and work int he not for profit area.

what is ironic is I never heard so many people state they are voting republican who typically vote democrat.  however, obama will be getting a lot of votes that eh typically wouldn't get.

I honestly have no idea who will win.  right now, the economy is the most important issue to a lot of people and I'm not sure what people will do when it comes time to vote.  people want change but they are scared that a lack of experience may be worse.  I can honestly see either candidate winning the election.

[rowjimmy]

Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

[keeb333]

Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

No, I forgot the smiley there so you would know the last one was not serious!  :-D :-D :-D

I know what you're saying, and pretty much agree.  I just have yet to decide which one of these pricks I'm going to vote for!

[rowjimmy]

Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

No, I forgot the smiley there so you would know the last one was not serious!  :-D :-D :-D

I know what you're saying, and pretty much agree.  I just have yet to decide which one of these pricks I'm going to vote for!

That's a relief.