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Huge surprises in shitty shows/eras

Started by Gumbo72203, October 27, 2012, 11:33:41 AM

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antelope19

Quote from: McGrupp on October 31, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
I'd say IT was probably the high point of 2.0.

I can agree with that. I saw some great shows in 03, Greensboro comes to mind immediately, but wasn't at IT unfortunately. 
Quote
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment

Buffalo Budd

Quote from: antelope19 on November 01, 2012, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: McGrupp on October 31, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
I'd say IT was probably the high point of 2.0.

I can agree with that. I saw some great shows in 03, Greensboro comes to mind immediately, but wasn't at IT unfortunately.

I was there and was a little disappointed with certain sections of the show.  Those were the 1st shows I had seen since 1999 so I noticed a difference in the structure of their jams.  Now looking back, I keep IT in semi regular rotation and appreciate it way more.  But that 46 days blew my mind at the time and I remember being pretty psyched during the Bowie.
Everything is connected, because it's all being created by this one consciousness. And we are tiny reflections of the mind that is creating the universe.

sophist

Alright, so Gumbo sent some pm's asking me to revisit this 6-19-04 Piper.  I sent this as a reply, but I'll post it publicly as well. 

QuoteAlright.  Gonna live blog this mother fucker since a) work is slow and b) it will best articulate my thoughts in real time

I can't listen to lp.com SBD's, so I am listening to an aud.  I just hate them.  Their sound sucks imo, especially from this era. 

Alright,  things are kicking off. 

~1 minute chill intro dropping right into the first refrain. 

Vocals sound shot, but that's the smoked opiates at work.  Page sounds fine, Trey just sounds rough.  Mike sounds alright. 

Lots of energy after the first refrain.  They kick the volume up a notch.  Dynamics - who'd have thought it's a valid concept?  ::sends memo to 3.0 Phish::

2nd refrain + 3rd refrain ->>>> tempo increase

lift off to teh jam ~3:40

vintage opiate Trey tone to begin this one.  Fish sounds manic.  Hovering between G major and A minor with the tonality. 

~4:45 feedback and loops.  Shit's layered.  Trey 8th and 16th notes on top and out of the feedback.  Fish matching the crazy, sporadic nature of Trey.  It works.  Page going from piano to keys.  That light synth sound.  Good contrast here.  Mike just holding the tonality down. 

~6:28 Trey dropping his first theme.  Very similar tonal structure to the C+P theme.  band reacts.  locks in. 
They sound fine.  The groove is there.  There is variation like it should be.  It's playful. 

~7:40 Plinko esque sound
hanging on those minor 7th chords

accent wise there is a lot of variation and it drops into a halftime beat before speeding back up to the preceding tempo.  Trey throwing the accents around - 2nd, 3rd, and 4th beats, alternating measures.  Page meanders a bit here.  This is the searching I think of when I mention 2.0.  Does it sound fine?  Sure, but its not a lock in, if this was 95, it would have already sky rocketed into something.  This is hanging to familiarity until it repeats into something new.  A noble concept. 

~10:42 sounds conflicted
Page trying to push one way, Trey pushing for a peak

more minor 7th action. 

Honestly, this is the shit that is boring to me.  It's straight forward improv.  There is nothing adventurous about this to me. 

~12:05 Page making the push to go somewhere, Trey throwing in off beats left and right

slowly coming back together. 

At times it sounds like Phish doesn't know who to follow.  It's very much controlled entropy

~12:52 getting ambient

2nd theme development, which is also the typical sounding 2.0 jam.  Hang on the minor 3rd to create mad tension.  Beat emphasis on beat # 3. 

Page and Mike sound good.  Trey takes a moment to lock in here.  Fish is on point. 

When the beat drops at ~14:54 is when it comes together.  Almost Mission Impossible theme esque in it's nature.  Huge use of minor 3rd tonal structures. 

Okay, this is more up my ally.  Gets dark and goes somewhere tonally.  Has purpose and drive.  Variation and development.  I've always found this to be the best part of the jam.  I'd also say you're wrong in calling this a tweezprise.  It's different harmonically speaking.  But it does sound like it. 

~17 getting heavier and building 

Mike is really on point here. 

Trey locks in well here.  He really plays to the rest of the band.  His choice to try to peak it is a little immature in my opinion.  But you can tell he wants the RAWK STAR peak. 

This is good but also sloppy as shit.  Flubs left and right as they play this simple theme.  Fish is constantly hitting the cymbals on the wrong beat and it just throws the jam off in my opinion. 

~19:30  moving forward.  Pending modulation.   To me this is again, vintage 2.0, it falls apart in a non cohesive way.  Where they have to really work to find the next theme and build it.  Is the push to leave the theme worth it?  Sure.  They are trying to go somewhere, and I dig that.  I just don't think you can hear a clear cut vision or leader in this.  They all sound aimless at times. 

~21 Trey working in a modulation back to major

~21:30  Kind of a symphonic build.  Doesn't hit me as I think it should.  In listening now, it seems rather disappointing, as they peak is more a volume increase than an actual flurry of new ideas.  Louder isn't always better (and we know that now all too well). 

Parts of this are very similar to the tweezprise, other parts no.  Kind of mixed as to the intent with it. 

~25:30 trying really hard to peak it 

This goes on too long in my opinion.  It's way too drawn out. 

~27 minutes seguing out of the peak 

~28 going back to minor.  Syncopated rhythms.  I like that. 

~30:30 Jiboo segue begins. 

This is fine. 

I think it's good, but I think they do a whole hell of a lot better earlier in their career.  To me, this never gets out there enough.  And that is a taste thing.  It's what I want. Mind fucking psychedelia.  Not play it safe vamping which is what happens with this jam at times.
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Gumbo72203

I guess it comes down to a matter of taste, because while I see your point in the Tweeprise peak from 22:00 - 25:00 being a volume thing, I think the tension of Mike and Fish (which is heard MUCH MUCH better on the SBD) is what really drives it home. 

Its Trey doing a chordal style of soloing, which i like hearing him do a lot. 
"Just drink some water, and breathe through your nose."  -Slim, 3/7/09


Quote from: redrum on April 04, 2010, 07:45:51 PM
%% with alternated lyrics about a 1995 jeep cherokee that was also sacraficed on this tour.

Quote from: blatboom on November 04, 2012, 08:46:54 PM
I think I got it but he's such a spaz he'll probably never open this thread again

Augustus

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on November 05, 2012, 02:30:12 PM
I guess it comes down to a matter of taste, because while I see your point in the Tweeprise peak from 22:00 - 25:00 being a volume thing, I think the tension of Mike and Fish (which is heard MUCH MUCH better on the SBD) is what really drives it home. 

Its Trey doing a chordal style of soloing, which i like hearing him do a lot.

Weren't you bangin' opiates outside of that SPAC show?
Maybe that's why you have such a deep connection with it.

birdman

   I honestly don't think I've thought about this Piper since leaving the show that night. Bored me to tears.
Paug FTMFW!

Augustus

Quote from: birdman on November 05, 2012, 03:22:44 PM
   I honestly don't think I've thought about this Piper since leaving the show that night. Bored me to tears.

Yeah, I just walked around during it and just wanted it to end.

sunrisevt

Quote from: McGrupp on October 31, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
I'd say IT was probably the high point of 2.0.

We've taught you well.

But seriously... Lots of win at IT--Ya Mar->Jim, Ghost, Chalkdust, Disease>NICU>Brother all rocked solid-- but some of the jams were just plain too long. The 46 Minutes left me cold then and still does.
Quote from: Eleanor MarsailI love you, daddy. Actually, I love all the people. Even the ones who I don't know their name.

sunrisevt

Quote from: antelope19 on November 01, 2012, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: McGrupp on October 31, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
I'd say IT was probably the high point of 2.0.

I can agree with that. I saw some great shows in 03, Greensboro comes to mind immediately, but wasn't at IT unfortunately.

Yeah. 2003 Greensboro and Charlotte both kicked ass. Walnut Creek, not so much.
Quote from: Eleanor MarsailI love you, daddy. Actually, I love all the people. Even the ones who I don't know their name.

sophist

Quote from: sophist on October 31, 2012, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: Gumbo72203 on October 31, 2012, 12:56:45 PM
You guys are dumb-retarded if you think the 6/19/04 Piper is opioid wankage.  Jus'sayin'. 



we all romanticize our first, the difference, most people eventually put context to it.

Quote from: Augustus on November 05, 2012, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: Gumbo72203 on November 05, 2012, 02:30:12 PM
I guess it comes down to a matter of taste, because while I see your point in the Tweeprise peak from 22:00 - 25:00 being a volume thing, I think the tension of Mike and Fish (which is heard MUCH MUCH better on the SBD) is what really drives it home. 

Its Trey doing a chordal style of soloing, which i like hearing him do a lot.

Weren't you bangin' opiates outside of that SPAC show?
Maybe that's why you have such a deep connection with it.
:wink:  :hereitisyousentimentalbastard
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

justjezmund

Quote from: sunrisevt on November 05, 2012, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on October 31, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
I'd say IT was probably the high point of 2.0.

We've taught you well.

But seriously... Lots of win at IT--Ya Mar->Jim, Ghost, Chalkdust, Disease>NICU>Brother all rocked solid-- but some of the jams were just plain too long. The 46 Minutes left me cold then and still does.

that first set of IT is prob my favorite set ive ever seen. 
Quote from: Augustus on September 29, 2013, 09:26:46 AM
It's like BJ Galore over here!


Quote from: rowjimmy on May 13, 2013, 09:36:00 AM
I use records for that and don't have to justify it to my friends.