Some questions about liveness for fellow fans

[bobweaver]

 
I know this could be considered beyond the scope of this forum, but I have a few questions for everyone about their experience/opinion of Phish livecasts. Before I get into the meat of it, a little about myself: I am a dedicated Phish fan of 17 years (I am 32) and a PhD student in the music department of Stony Brook University in Stony Brook, New York. I plan on writing about the phenomena of Phish in my dissertation (from both the music theory and ethnomusicological points of view), but until I get on with that I must finish coursework. With this being said, I am writing a research paper on the changing perception of liveness with the growing popularity livecasting, specifically pertaining to Phish shows. I assume we have all experienced a couch tour or two, or three, or more in our day and have considered our experience of the music as being live-even though it is highly mediated by numerous technologies. To get to my point...I have 5 questions for consideration, and hope to receive your reply. No need to reply to all questions unless you feel up to it, I know this is asking a lot. A huge thank you in advance!
RJ
1. When engaging in a livephish webcast, or any other (in this case free) streaming service such as mixlr, how do you think of the experience in regard to immediacy, do you feel the event is unfolding as you watch/listen?

2. How close do you feel to the music as it unfolds? Do you experience it differently than live, if so, how?

3. Do you feel engaged by the music, specifically the improvisations, and does participating in live forum add a dimension of communal experience?

4. During the show, do you feel as if you are a participant/were there? in what capacity?

5. After the show, in what capacity does it feel like you were there? Do you reflect on the show?

[jam>]

Welcome! This project sounds like it needs a more qualitative approach. The good news is that phish fans love talking about this stuff.

[antelope19]

These are actually some interesting questions. But let's take care of some business first. We already have an RJ. I don't think this board is big enough for two.  :hereitisyousentimentalbastard
I hope you stick around!

I've seen 72 shows, but I have young kids now so my answers might be skewed.

1) It's extremely convenient, but I don't feel like I am part of it. Def not like it's unfolding in front of me.
2) I don't feel close at all, aside from the obvious up close views of the band members that we wouldn't get in-person. Very different experience.
3) yes, I feel engaged by the music and jams. I doubt I'd pay to watch if I didn't.
4) No, just no.
5) not at all. But we do reflect/discuss each show here on the Paug.

[anthrax]

I know this could be considered beyond the scope of this forum, but I have a few questions for everyone about their experience/opinion of Phish livecasts. Before I get into the meat of it, a little about myself: I am a dedicated Phish fan of 17 years (I am 32) and a PhD student in the music department of Stony Brook University in Stony Brook, New York. I plan on writing about the phenomena of Phish in my dissertation (from both the music theory and ethnomusicological points of view), but until I get on with that I must finish coursework. With this being said, I am writing a research paper on the changing perception of liveness with the growing popularity livecasting, specifically pertaining to Phish shows. I assume we have all experienced a couch tour or two, or three, or more in our day and have considered our experience of the music as being live-even though it is highly mediated by numerous technologies. To get to my point...I have 5 questions for consideration, and hope to receive your reply. No need to reply to all questions unless you feel up to it, I know this is asking a lot. A huge thank you in advance!
RJ
1. When engaging in a livephish webcast, or any other (in this case free) streaming service such as mixlr, how do you think of the experience in regard to immediacy, do you feel the event is unfolding as you watch/listen?

2. How close do you feel to the music as it unfolds? Do you experience it differently than live, if so, how?

3. Do you feel engaged by the music, specifically the improvisations, and does participating in live forum add a dimension of communal experience?

4. During the show, do you feel as if you are a participant/were there? in what capacity?

5. After the show, in what capacity does it feel like you were there? Do you reflect on the show?

holy shit, these questions are awesome.  you better be a real person.  i want a copy of the final paper!
mixlr kinda blows.  i'm talking about a live phish webcast that i am watching in real time or nearly real time...
1. i absolutely feel as though it's unfolding as i listen, right down to the songs i choose to piss during.
2. i am actually a bit more focused on the music and what the band is doing on the stage.  i can see the subtle head nods and nuances that occur between the members.  i am way more in the moment of the music during couch tour.  during an actual show, i can get distracted by the lights or the people around me, especially if i am not super close to the stage.
3.  i do feel engaged in the improv during couch tour because i can their body language during the jamming.  i don't particularly like participating in a live forum during the show.  i feel that it distracts me from the show.  for the same reason, i try to stay off my cell phone when i'm at a show.  sorry paugers.
4.  yes!  i've been to pretty much every venue that is broadcasted on a couch tour, so i know what it's like in that room.  also, when the show is over, i'm ready to talk about specific songs and specific jams just like i would walking out of an actual show.
5.  if i've been partying, i feel as though i was there.  i have that same post show haze/glow going on.  i do reflect, but probably not as much as if i was really there in the immediate sense.  at home, there's shit to do.  at the show, the reflection occurs right after as you are walking out and meeting friends in the lot.  at home, the reflection occurs the next day upon relistening. 

[bobweaver]

Thank you all so much for your replies so far, they are immensely helpful and I look forward to keeping the conversation going. I assure you that I am who I say I am and that your answers are strictly for this research paper, and later my dissertation. This is a question that is near and dear. As someone that has been to 43 shows and counting, I do not think that live streaming could ever take the place of the show (obviously),,,but I do do recognize that there is a distinct culture/community that has developed around couch tour for serious fans and this fascinates me. I think that we are a special example of a specific group of musical humans that is willing to expand our experience of liveness in certain ways in order to chase that feeling that could only be born from the truly live experience of Phish (which is almost impossible to describe to a group of academics, trust me.)

This project sounds like it needs a more qualitative approach.

...I agree with this and welcome any thoughts. Cheers.
...And oh yeah, I am more than happy to send a final copy of this paper, and eventually my dissertation on Phish, to anyone who would like read it.

[antelope19]

I would be curious to see an age demographic question with this too.

[sunrisevt]

:ahem:

GET FUCKED, NOOB.

[anthrax]

Thank you all so much for your replies so far, they are immensely helpful and I look forward to keeping the conversation going. I assure you that I am who I say I am and that your answers are strictly for this research paper, and later my dissertation. This is a question that is near and dear. As someone that has been to 43 shows and counting, I do not think that live streaming could ever take the place of the show (obviously),,,but I do do recognize that there is a distinct culture/community that has developed around couch tour for serious fans and this fascinates me. I think that we are a special example of a specific group of musical humans that is willing to expand our experience of liveness in certain ways in order to chase that feeling that could only be born from the truly live experience of Phish (which is almost impossible to describe to a group of academics, trust me.)

that and i'm tired of aggro teenage "security" guards trying to tell me what to do and giant men violating me upon entrance to the venue in the name of "safety"

[rowjimmy]

I know this could be considered beyond the scope of this forum, but I have a few questions for everyone about their experience/opinion of Phish livecasts. Before I get into the meat of it, a little about myself: I am a dedicated Phish fan of 17 years (I am 32) and a PhD student in the music department of Stony Brook University in Stony Brook, New York. I plan on writing about the phenomena of Phish in my dissertation (from both the music theory and ethnomusicological points of view), but until I get on with that I must finish coursework. With this being said, I am writing a research paper on the changing perception of liveness with the growing popularity livecasting, specifically pertaining to Phish shows. I assume we have all experienced a couch tour or two, or three, or more in our day and have considered our experience of the music as being live-even though it is highly mediated by numerous technologies. To get to my point...I have 5 questions for consideration, and hope to receive your reply. No need to reply to all questions unless you feel up to it, I know this is asking a lot. A huge thank you in advance!
RJ
1. When engaging in a livephish webcast, or any other (in this case free) streaming service such as mixlr, how do you think of the experience in regard to immediacy, do you feel the event is unfolding as you watch/listen?

2. How close do you feel to the music as it unfolds? Do you experience it differently than live, if so, how?

3. Do you feel engaged by the music, specifically the improvisations, and does participating in live forum add a dimension of communal experience?

4. During the show, do you feel as if you are a participant/were there? in what capacity?

5. After the show, in what capacity does it feel like you were there? Do you reflect on the show?

Not sure there's room for another RJ around here, bub.

That said, I am happy to answer your questions. and, although he needs to STFU, I think this is, potentially, an interesting component posed by Neely:

I would be curious to see an age demographic question with this too.

Here goes:

1: The immediacy is there, unfolding and, potentially quite exciting. When something unique or special happens I'm excited to be connected to the moment.
2: Quality and type of stream impact this but, when I'm listening, I'm connected. When I'm there, I'm enveloped in it but being connected is a passable substitute.
3: Quality and type of stream impact this as well. If it's a mixlr stream, I'm more prone to being pulled into family life or other activities. When I watch a livephish video stream, I stake my space, setup the room and I'm generally in. I hang on every note. I celebrate peaks, make note of mistakes...
4: It's still not the same as being there, not by a long shot but it is still sort of an outer shell of the collective experience.  I engage with folks here and on social media who are also watching. We have ourselves a show beyond the show.
5: I do not feel like I was there. It's great to experience the immediacy of the stream and feel connected to the show as it happens because, all things being ideal, I would be there but that's not going to happen. This is an alternative, not an analog. I do reflect on the show but not in the same way. My reflections are 99.9% musical and less colored by the communal thrill of being there.

[ph92]

:ahem:

GET FUCKED POUND SAND, NOOB.

FTFY

[bobweaver]

I would be curious to see an age demographic question with this too.

agree, I think this could provide insight into the rationale behind some answers, I know this fact affects my personal answers...

:ahem:

GET FUCKED, NOOB.

:ahem:

GET FUCKED POUND SAND, NOOB.

FTFY

...eloquently said...

[sunrisevt]

Don't take it personally—we have a long tradition of hazing here and I'm not one to let tradition be ignored.

[antelope19]

Don't take it personally—we have a long tradition of hazing here and I'm not one to let tradition be ignored.

This

[rowjimmy]

Don't take it personally—we have a long tradition of hazing here and I'm not one to let tradition be ignored.

This

STFU Neely.

[bobweaver]

Cheers, then I won't...used to it anyway. on another note...here is something that might interest y'all. Oregon State is holding the first ever Phish conference. There will be serious scholar/fans there presenting their legit work on pretty much every aspect. I just received the call for papers today in an email from the Society for Music Theory. I have included the entire body of the email in this post for those who are interested in knowing (at length) that Phish is getting serious attention from the academic world. The panel is full of killer scholars who have already done great work.

Oregon State University is pleased to announce the first peer-reviewed
academic conference devoted to the music and fan culture of the
improvisational rock band Phish. The conference will take place on Oregon
State?s campus in Corvallis, Oregon, May 17-19, 2019.

For the past thirty-five years, Phish has been consistently building a
fervent fan base and impressive live performance history, often working
outside traditional avenues of the mainstream recording industry. They
staged the world?s largest New Year?s Eve concert in December 1999 with a
marathon seven-hour set, redefined the modern American music festival, and
performed a record-setting thirteen night run at New York?s Madison Square
Garden without repeating a single song during the summer of 2017. Despite
these achievements, Phish has received far less scholarly attention than
many other acts in popular music.

Bringing scholars together from diverse academic disciplines, we welcome a
wide range of methodological and theoretical approaches to the sonic,
narrative, performative, visual, and cultural worlds of Phish, including
but not limited to:

? Music and Lyrics
o Compositional practice; Improvisational strategies; Band mythologies,
including Gamehendge; Questions of genre; Historiography
? Elements of Live Performance
o Cover songs; Concert lighting; Venues; Fan space and place
? Fan Culture
o Fan communities (virtual, face-to-face); Fan art; Parking lots; Tape
trading; Issues of race, gender, religion, sexuality, disability; Activism;
Subcultural identities; Fan mythologies
? Business
o Business practices; Place within music industry; Tape trading; Early
adoption of the internet; Media framing of Phish; Influence on American
music festival culture; Influence on the jam band genre
? Quantitative Analysis
o Analyses of setlists, fan show ratings, tour itineraries

Please submit abstracts of 250-500 words for either (a) individual
20-minute papers or (b) 90-minute panel proposals (three presenters
minimum). Complete panel proposals should include an abstract for each
panelist?s contribution as well as a 250-word (max.) justification for the
panel. We encourage proposals from scholars at any stage of their career,
including graduate students as well as scholars outside of academia.
Abstracts should specify the presenter?s methodological and theoretical
approach, summarize conclusions, and specify the broader academic
implications of the research. *Abstracts are due no later than January 15,
2019*.