Author Topic: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)  (Read 102548 times)

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Offline Superfreakie

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2730 on: October 15, 2017, 06:00:22 PM »
OK, this is for Paul......Paul I could only make it half way through the speech for now. I will finish it in a couple days (I had completely forgotten about this refutation). Please excuse typos, grammar, etc... I wrote this on a phone in a hurry.

Quote
Mr. Secretary General, Mr. President, world leaders, and distinguished delegates: Welcome to New York. It is a profound honor to stand here in my home city, as a representative of the American people, to address the people of the world.

“I am a representative of the American people”  Yes, the president is a representative of the American people, but given that Trump only garnered 62,984,825, he is technically only representing 26% of the US adult population. Sorry, I had to Paul.... cause this shit pisses him off

As millions of our citizens continue to suffer the effects of the devastating hurricanes that have struck our country, I want to begin by expressing my appreciation to every leader in this room who has offered assistance and aid. The American people are strong and resilient, and they will emerge from these hardships more determined than ever before.

Well, I’m glad other leaders are doing it, because in the same breath Trump speaks about how he’s “always with them” while threatening to halt aid, pull first responders, and heap blame on Puerto Rico’s broken economic system; a system that was designed and systematically preyed upon by Washington and bankers for a little over a century. Example, at one point we turned Puerto Rico into a tax haven, whereby US mainland companies could move to take advantage of cheap labor and no taxes (a stipulation for the so called “investment”), and then re-import those goods back to the US mainland tax free. This is but a small example but the list is seemingly endless. I suggest reading up about how we fucked that country inside out. That said, similar US footprints can be found across every Caribbean and Latin American country that allowed us access. Actually, include those that didn't as well.
 
Fortunately, the United States has done very well since Election Day last November 8th.

Subtly, he’s suggesting that it had not been doing well prior the election and that he is responsible for what has happened since. What he should say is that we have been recovering and have been showing relatively steady economic improvement since Obama (and Bush/Paulson at the end of their time in office) countered the GLOBAL recession with spending measures. Thank Obama for resisting the calls from the right to impose crippling austerity packages (see the UK for an example of what not to do). It goes without saying I’m a Keynesian and believe strongly that during economic slowdowns a government’s role should be to spend on infrastructure and, during times of prosperity, tax so that we can then spend these savings during slowdowns. Of course I understand this rarely happens due to the length of election cycles vs economic cycles, as prosperous times most often witness politicians not responsible for the windfall spending the new found moneys on projects that get them re-elected, with businesses having an easier time lobbying for tax breaks as the optics are not as bad. Regardless, Trump has consistently tried to paint the Obama era as some bleak hellhole knowing full well that the numbers would only continue to trend positively upwards for his entry into office and that he would be the beneficiary of some very good numbers which he could then claim to the ignorant as him being responsible for.

But let’s return to this supposed hellhole that is the US. Sure some parts of the Midwest, Rustbelt have been economically hollowed out, and that is awful, but that is the reality of an interconnected globe and we are not going to put this jack back in the box. Sure economic nationalism and populism will rue the day every now and again, as they did in this last election (along with Russians and some very good propaganda and data engines of which Kushner et al. were very adept at managing). But these often unstable forces can be countered with safety nets, so that the economic dislocations caused by the neoliberal world in which we live are less damaging and volatile. Having said all that, America is not a hellhole as the Republicans and Trump (who has always seen the world outside his penthouse bubble this way) want you to believe. By virtually all metrics, crime has steadily been decreasing in the US for decades, as well as the entire world. Less people are also killed in wars ect, famines, you name it.  In the US, and yes before the election of Donald, we were trending to reaching “full employment” (look up the term if you do not understand its economic meaning).

My only consternations are stagnant real wages (which should improve some as we hit full employment) and economic disparity (gap between richest and poorest), which I believe it is the duty of governments to reign in through taxation. Disparity leads to political instability which leads to revolution, secession, war etc.... I’m also concerned about the impact artificial intelligence will have on future employment, which might require a re-evaluation of how we see labor, but for now life is pretty fucking good for most people in the U.S. of A. and has been for some time now. Essentially, most things have been trending positive for most people long before the election, and those negatively impacted by Trump, I can only say this is a minor speed bump and the pendulum will swing back. (I’m also concerned about the environment but again, I’m looking into the immediate future.)
 
         
The stock market is at an all-time high -- a record.

I would not ascribe this to Trump as he has little influence on this marker (sure taxation, regulations, trade deals and starting wars can have minor affects but keep in mind, he has not passed a SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT MIGHT POSITIVELY AFFECT ANY OF THESE FACTORS.)

Unemployment is at its lowest level in 16 years, and because of our regulatory and other reforms, we have more people working in the United States today than ever before.
 
Again, what regulatory reforms? And what OTHER reforms? You’ve done absolutely jack fucking squat. And who exactly was in power of the last half of those 16 years that grew the numbers to what they are today. Now look at the second part of the sentence. We have more people working in the US than ever before due to population growth because people keep having sex and immigrating here. Apart from a depression or massive recession, this statement should be the case for nearly any president to sit in office when speaking about the past. But notice how he conjoins two independent stats, unemployment stats and more people working, which have nothing to do with him and then ties them to himself. Also, isn’t it funny how he used to call the unemployment figures bunk under Obama, “we are really at 35% unemployment instead of 9%” or 45% or 25% depending on who was interviewing him and on what day of the week it was, yet these number crunchers are now the gold standard for him.

Companies are moving back, creating job growth the likes of which our country has not seen in a very long time.

No, they are not moving back, nor are they repatriating all the moneys that they have sitting outside of the country, as you promised they would do once you took office. But then again, you’ve passed no significantly important piece of legislation to encourage this…..oh wait, your tax reform plan, wait, what exactly is your tax reform plan again. As for job growth, see comments and thoughts above. 

And it has just been announced that we will be spending almost $700 billion on our military and defense.

We will, or you would like to???? Cause I haven’t seen an increase in defense spending bill come through any house. And something tells me that you won’t be able to increase military spending by 100 billion dollars, from 595 billion, when you are planning a massive tax cut and are trying to solve health care. Again, sounds great, but an utterly false statement. More red meat propaganda for the base.

Our military will soon be the strongest it has ever been.

Well, that’s called innovation and evolution, much like a population that keeps growing and will inevitably always have more people working, our military will only get stronger alongside man’s capacity to continuously innovate. So it is not that it will “soon be”, it’s that it always is better today than the last, unless we were to completely cut off funding  (which we should do, China spends around 300 billion, but that is an entirely separate discussion)  or engage in a massive war that depletes our inventories. Also, consider that the word "soon" suggests that he is working to make it so, as it is happening during his watch. Again, watch the language it is tricky. He takes credit for everything,
 this is his SOP.


For more than 70 years, in times of war and peace, the leaders of nations, movements, and religions have stood before this assembly. Like them, I intend to address some of the very serious threats before us today but also the enormous potential waiting to be unleashed.

Alright, out with your Manichean world view.

We live in a time of extraordinary opportunity. Breakthroughs in science, technology, and medicine are curing illnesses and solving problems that prior generations thought impossible to solve.

Yep, nothing new here.

But each day also brings news of growing dangers that threaten everything we cherish and value. Terrorists and extremists have gathered strength and spread to every region of the planet.

Let’s get one thing very clear, terrorism is not an existential threat to most countries and most people. It might cause irrational fear and some dislocation, but let’s get real. More Americans die of handguns every year, walking across the street ect…. than…..ugh, why even bother arguing some of this stupid irrational fear mongering terrorism shit. Seriously. Terrorists are non-state actors with very limited power, hence the tools they use for attention. Being that there have always been are winners and losers in politics, there will always be terrorism. They have existed in nearly every region of the planet at one time or another because they are political and social expressions that have manifested themselves as violence. In the grand scheme of 7 billion people on the planet, they are mosquitoes biting elephants. But we are emotional human beings who often can’t analyze rationally, so the above garbage Trump statement fools most. And as for the attacking of American values……I can think of only one person who has the ability to possibly threaten that, and his name is……………. That is if you can truly pin down what American values are. ;)   

Rogue regimes represented in this body not only support terrorists but threaten other nations and their own people with the most destructive weapons known to humanity.

Didn’t Trump just threaten to annihilate North Korea? So is it ok for non-rogue countries to threaten other nations? Does a North Korean consider us rogue? What about the Iranians? We are essentially responsible for that entire mess when we supported the Shah. How many countries has the US supported terrorists in? How many dictators have we armed and aided? How many governments have we overthrown? How many death squads have we taught? Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Chile, Libya, wait no point in listing countries, we need to go to regions Middle East, actually scrap that, might as well use continents, South America. And yet we wonder why countries that are not our friends want to develop weapons that might prevent us from attacking them?   

Authority and authoritarian powers seek to collapse the values, the systems, and alliances that prevented conflict and tilted the world toward freedom since World War II.

This is very interesting as a statement, because wasn’t Trump decrying the failure of all these institutions during his entire campaign and that they needed to be abandoned. NATO, UN, trade agreements such as NAFTA, Paris Accord, Iran deal. These are all parts of the global neo-liberal system that was built after WWII. Here he is lauding them, but then shits on it all when he gives a speech in rural Kentucky. Fucking clown. 

International criminal networks traffic drugs, weapons, people; force dislocation and mass migration; threaten our borders; and new forms of aggression exploit technology to menace our citizens.

Wait, at the beginning of this historical retelling you said there were extreme positives and negatives but so far you’ve only rambled about the negatives. Oh well, more hellfire and brimstone then. So, yes, there are criminal networks doing these things and they are all principally economically supported by drugs. But I’m guessing that the ultimate way of drying up all this financing you will never go near, ending prohibition, because you and elf-on-the-shelf Sessions want to keep your police base happy, as well as everyone else who benefits from disproportionately locking up people of color.
To put it simply, we meet at a time of both of immense promise and great peril. It is entirely up to us whether we lift the world to new heights, or let it fall into a valley of disrepair.

The only true “great peril” to man is if we collapse the environment. And not only will you not discuss these matters, but you are putting people in power who will accelerate us towards it (Scott Pruit at the EPA anyone?).
 
We have it in our power, should we so choose, to lift millions from poverty, to help our citizens realize their dreams, and to ensure that new generations of children are raised free from violence, hatred, and fear.

Well, you want to end DACA for starters. So please with your “we are the children” tripe. As for lifting people out of poverty, you’ve done what? Elected Non-Brain Brain Surgeon Carson to HUD? Really? Hmm, have you done anything to curb gun violence? Have you curbed hatred or fear? LOL, remember Charlottesville? What about all the LGBT folks? Have you addressed the concerns of echoed by Black Lives Matter?

This institution was founded in the aftermath of two world wars to help shape this better future. It was based on the vision that diverse nations could cooperate to protect their sovereignty, preserve their security, and promote their prosperity.

Ok, now I’m really lost. If you believe in countries protecting their sovereignty, preserving security, and promoting their own prosperity, then should we not leave Iran and North Korea to their own devices? YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE!!!!!!

It was in the same period, exactly 70 years ago, that the United States developed the Marshall Plan to help restore Europe. Those three beautiful pillars -- they’re pillars of peace, sovereignty, security, and prosperity.

Three beautiful pillars but you just mentioned four….eh, whose counting right. So now you are supporting US interventionism, or are you the grand American isolationist as you purport to be to your base? I’M CONFUSED……but let me guess, so are you, you fucking historical and political neophyte.

The Marshall Plan was built on the noble idea that the whole world is safer when nations are strong, independent, and free.

NO IT WASN’T. IT WAS AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY PACKAGE THAT SOUGHT TO CREATE INTERDEPENDENCE AND NOT INDEPENDENCE. The more countries are tied to each other economically, the less likely they are to go to war.

As President Truman said in his message to Congress at that time, “Our support of European recovery is in full accord with our support of the United Nations. The success of the United Nations depends upon the independent strength of its members.”

You sir are no Truman!

To overcome the perils of the present and to achieve the promise of the future, we must begin with the wisdom of the past. Our success depends on a coalition of strong and independent nations that embrace their sovereignty to promote security, prosperity, and peace for themselves and for the world.

Really, you are back to this message. Again, it all sounds nice when you first hear it. But it is completely contradictory to everything he has said and tried to enact.

We do not expect diverse countries to share the same cultures, traditions, or even systems of government. But we do expect all nations to uphold these two core sovereign duties: to respect the interests of their own people and the rights of every other sovereign nation. This is the beautiful vision of this institution, and this is foundation for cooperation and success.

Listen closely and you can nearly hear North Korea, Iran, China, half the middle east, all shaking their heads……..

Strong, sovereign nations let diverse countries with different values, different cultures, and different dreams not just coexist, but work side by side on the basis of mutual respect.

See above…..

Strong, sovereign nations let their people take ownership of the future and control their own destiny.
 
Wait, I thought you loved dictators? This is exactly what most governments you have lauded DON’T DO. Sissi, Duarte, Putin, do you want me to keep listing them?

And strong, sovereign nations allow individuals to flourish in the fullness of the life intended by God.

WHAT????? Are you campaigning right now?

In America, we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to watch. This week gives our country a special reason to take pride in that example. We are celebrating the 230th anniversary of our beloved Constitution -- the oldest constitution still in use in the world today.

America has sought to impose itself on everything since it became a hegemonic power. As for a "shining example", we’re batting 50/50. We do some good things, we do some bad. Are you seriously about to give us a lesson on the constitution? You trampled or suggested trampling much of the document save for the right to bear arms. Threatened the press, threatened the independent houses of government, threatened the judiciary. Oh Lord…..ok, I’ll listen then

This timeless document has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans and for countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law.

First off, it wasn’t timeless. If it was timeless it would not have needed amendments. Seriously, think long and hard about what I just said……slavery anyone? And can you please stop repeating peace, prosperity and freedom……I’m seeing through your word smoke screen…..oh wait, is everyone else. Of course they are not. Fuck, I’m a fool.

The greatest in the United States Constitution is its first three beautiful words. They are: “We the people.”

I’m going to puke

Generations of Americans have sacrificed to maintain the promise of those words, the promise of our country, and of our great history. In America, the people govern, the people rule, and the people are sovereign. I was elected not to take power, but to give power to the American people, where it belongs.

Hmmm, again, I thought you respected dictators who put people in their place; those who wielded power and took power. Are you not the ultimate Hobbesian machination?

At this point I have to take a break for my own sanity more to come later……..

"I wrote this on the phone. In a hurry."
Were you stuck in an elevator for an hour?

I have a new job and was really pissed about something, so I vented by answering this sporadically throughout my morning.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 06:04:40 PM by Superfreakie »
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Offline slslbs

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2731 on: October 24, 2017, 12:23:24 PM »
arrest of a "brown man" without a warrant - again

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/us/oregon-ice-arrest-immigration.html

Quote
ICE Arrested a Man in Oregon Without a Warrant. Senators Want to Know Why.
By MATTHEW HAAG and CHRISTINE HAUSEROCT. 24, 2017

A frame from a video that showed Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in plain clothes entering a home in Portland, Ore., and arresting a man. Credit George Cardenas, via Associated Press.
Both of Oregon’s senators have demanded an explanation after Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in plain clothes entered a home in Portland without a warrant and arrested a man who was later released.

The arrest of the man, who was working on a renovation at the house on Thursday, was captured on a cellphone video by a co-worker who published it on Facebook, where it was viewed more than a million times.

News of the encounter spread, and United States Senators Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley, both Democrats who had previously voiced concerns about how ICE is operating in their state, said the arrest “appears to be an illegal entry of a private home,” according to a joint letter sent on Friday to a regional director at the agency.

The video, which is more than seven minutes long, begins after three ICE agents are already inside the house. One of them asks the man, identified by the senators as Carlos Bolanos, for his identification. The man asks why.

“I have reason to believe you are not in the country legally,” the agent replies.

The co-worker recording the cellphone video, George Cardenas, then asks the agents why his colleague is being arrested and what the charges are, but none are specified. He asks them repeatedly to identify themselves and tells the agents they are trespassing, but the one agent who speaks throughout the encounter says the house is a place of business, apparently because the two men are working inside.

Mr. Cardenas says that the homeowners live in the furnished basement, and points out their car.

“If you guys don’t have a warrant, you’re kind of breaking the law,” Mr. Cardenas said. “Well, you are breaking the law, basically, at this point.”

The video records a back and forth over access, and Mr. Cardenas agrees that he opened the door when he saw the agents outside but says he did not give them permission to enter. At one point, the agent says, “We don’t need to introduce ourselves by our names.”


After several minutes, the agents arrest Mr. Bolanos, removing a paintbrush from one hand and a cellphone from the other and then placing his hands behind his back and handcuffing him. He is walked to a car outside.

An ICE public affairs officer, Yasmeen Pitts O’Keefe, said later that Mr. Bolanos was released from custody pending further investigation. She said in a statement that the matter had been referred to the ICE Office of Professional Responsibility and the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Inspector General.

“The agency is reviewing this incident,” Ms. Pitts O’Keefe said. She did not reply to a request for further comment on Monday.

In their letter to Elizabeth Godfrey, a deputy field office director for ICE, Mr. Wyden and Mr. Merkley wrote that people “do not lose their constitutional protection from warrantless search and seizure simply because ICE believes they may be immigrants.”

The senators asked Ms. Godfrey for an explanation of the policies that led to Mr. Bolanos’s arrest and questioned whether the behavior of the agents conformed to guidelines. Mr. Cardenas said on Monday that Mr. Bolanos planned to speak with a lawyer before talking publicly about the episode.

It was the latest encounter to bring ICE under criticism for its agents’ practices during arrests in Oregon and across the country. The letter from the senators said that the encounter with Mr. Bolanos came about two weeks after ICE responded to their questions about the targeting of an American citizen in Hillsboro, Ore.

In that episode last month, according to an account by the American Civil Liberties Union, a man, Isidro Andrade-Tafolla, and his wife were stopped by ICE agents as the couple left the Washington County Courthouse.

Mr. Andrade-Tafolla was asked to show his identification by agents who did not identify themselves, but who showed him a photograph. Mr. Andrade-Tafolla said that it was not him in the photograph, and that the only resemblance was skin color.

“That confusion about who is who with unidentified ICE agents could literally become deadly,” Sheriff Pat Garrett of Washington County said at a news conference last month after Mr. Andrade-Tafolla was stopped. He said sheriffs in Oregon had expressed concern to ICE about other circumstances in which agents did not identify themselves or drove in unmarked cars.

“We have heard story after story,” Representative Suzanne Bonamici said at the news conference in September.

On Friday, after Mr. Bolanos was arrested, she wrote in a joint letter with Representative Earl Blumenauer, a fellow Democrat, that the agents’ behavior was inappropriate.

“Without a response, we will assume that an investigation into the Washington County incident is not underway,” the lawmakers said. “Now after this most recent incident, it is even more disturbing to witness ICE agents act inappropriately again, only a month later.”

Mat Dos Santos, the legal director for the A.C.L.U. of Oregon, said in an interview over the weekend that the arrest of Mr. Bolanos, as seen in the video, was “flagrantly unconstitutional.”

“I hope that they review this incident and realize just how bad it is and how plainly illegal this arrest was and reprimand and retrain officers on how to conduct an arrest legally,” he added.

“I don’t have a lot of hope for that,” he said. “It’s an agency that operates largely in secret and with little public oversight.”
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
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Offline jam>

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2732 on: October 24, 2017, 12:29:36 PM »
Yup. Great op-ed on the subject here titled "I Accidentally Turned My Dad In to Immigration Service": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/opinion/ice-detained-father-yale.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0


Offline gah

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2733 on: October 31, 2017, 12:04:12 PM »
There's so much to talk about, so many things, but Ta-Nehisi Coates twitter tirade response to Kelly's interview is worth the read...

https://twitter.com/tanehisicoates/status/925289478943633408
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Offline mattstick

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2734 on: October 31, 2017, 12:18:13 PM »


Offline slslbs

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2735 on: October 31, 2017, 04:17:43 PM »
There's so much to talk about, so many things, but Ta-Nehisi Coates twitter tirade response to Kelly's interview is worth the read...

https://twitter.com/tanehisicoates/status/925289478943633408
Kelly's comment would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline ytowndan

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Offline mbw

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2737 on: November 06, 2017, 02:59:49 PM »

Offline pcr3

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2738 on: November 06, 2017, 10:57:00 PM »
"I'm singlehandedly responsible for poisoning the entire local ecosystem with all my fluids spilling onto the ground." -birdman, while plowing

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Offline Buffalo Budd

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2739 on: November 07, 2017, 07:27:46 AM »
Many of my fears summed up in one piece...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis

Completely agree. I've been thinking about this for quite some time now and wondering if it's possible to pull out of it.

Offline slslbs

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2740 on: November 07, 2017, 10:42:01 AM »
yep
The guy who "grabbed them by the pussy" and didn't release his tax returns. He filled the swamp instead of draining it. His supporters still love him
no way a GOP congress is going to impeach him, even if Mueller finds that he murdered his grandma and raped a 2 year old child
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline mbw

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2741 on: November 07, 2017, 11:46:53 AM »
yep
The guy who "grabbed them by the pussy" and didn't release his tax returns. He filled the swamp instead of draining it. His supporters still love him
no way a GOP congress is going to impeach him, even if Mueller finds that he murdered his grandma and raped a 2 year old child

all that.

Offline slslbs

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2742 on: November 10, 2017, 01:15:24 PM »
In defense of Moore

Quote
.  What Moore is accused of doing happens in the Bible

“Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler told the Washington Examiner. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

 :roll:
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline Hicks

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2743 on: November 10, 2017, 01:43:00 PM »
In defense of Moore

Quote
.  What Moore is accused of doing happens in the Bible

“Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler told the Washington Examiner. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

 :roll:

I don't see any reason societal standards should change over thousands of years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go sacrifice 20 heifers and 10 yearlings. 
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Offline VDB

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #2744 on: November 10, 2017, 02:09:13 PM »
But as far as we know, did Joseph ever make little Mary touch his winky? (Immaculate impregnation and all that.)
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