Author Topic: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)  (Read 102547 times)

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Offline phil

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2011, 11:10:36 AM »
from Michael Moores twitter
Quote
f a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking.

That's why I hate Michael Moore. If sarah palin happened to be muslim, the map she posted would have still been just as bad. I think the map was over the line regardless of context, though it in no way makes any of this her fault. The two are not even related.
sure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

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Offline PIE-GUY

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2011, 11:20:39 AM »
i can't watch any of those political shows, but Olberman sometimes hits the nail on the head...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40983401#40983401
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Offline nab

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2011, 11:38:06 AM »
Hearing about this yesterday made me sick. 


This country needs a re-awakening and the political deck needs to be shuffled so that our conceptions of right and left are no longer so vitriolic. 

The unfortunate truth, from my perspective, is that elites from the right and the left are both working in concert to bankrupt the nation, to secure corporate control, and to keep people confused. 

All this is being accomplished through a well orchestrated "culture war" that presents reality in strictly binary terms and a "you're with us or against us" attitude.  The end result has been the division of the populace and the concentration of ideology on both sides of the political divide.

In today's world, it is too easy for  a mad man to find justification for his actions through our political talking heads.  Unfortunately, talking heads on the  right have started to subversively advocate violence as a political action, often using quasi-constitutional justifications.  In our politically divisive atmosphere, it won't be long until the mad men (or women) on the left respond in kind advocating either retaliatory violence or tighter governmental control.  Either way, the ability of the average citizen to leverage political clout will diminish as power is concentrated on both ends of the political/philosophical spectrum and elites continue to exercise domination over our country's various forms of capital.   

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2011, 12:12:35 PM »
from Michael Moores twitter
Quote
f a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking.

That's why I hate Michael Moore. If sarah palin happened to be muslim, the map she posted would have still been just as bad. I think the map was over the line regardless of context, though it in no way makes any of this her fault. The two are not even related.

You hate Michael Moore because he's right?

Offline slslbs

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2011, 12:54:17 PM »
from Michael Moores twitter
Quote
f a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking.

That's why I hate Michael Moore. If sarah palin happened to be muslim, the map she posted would have still been just as bad. I think the map was over the line regardless of context, though it in no way makes any of this her fault. The two are not even related.

Moore didn't say it was her fault.

He pointed out the obvious. the right wing rhetoric has been violent and hateful, but if anyone "not American enough" for them complains, then they spew more hate.
remember the campaign of 08 when Obama's pastor was critical of the US. Even though Obama himself never made those statements, Obama himself was taken to task. I'm not arguing that BO shouldn't have dissociated himself sooner than he eventually did, but SP and many  others (who were called out in Olberman's vid) are constantly using violent metaphors and are never called out for it by GOP members of congress and Senate.

You really don't think there is a relationship between this rhetoric and violence? I'll take it on faith that SP really didn't want her shot, and she was using a "figure of speech". But there are enough crazy people out there, that someome will take it literally.
There have been enough other close calls.

Moore is right - a black Muslim from detroit would be in jail, with SP and Beck calling for his execution.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 12:57:17 PM by slslbs »
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Offline mbw

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2011, 01:09:59 PM »
Moore is right - a black Muslim from detroit would be in jail, with SP and Beck calling for his execution.

yup.  hell, just last week tucker carlson said michael vick should be executed.

Offline danje

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2011, 01:17:14 PM »
That Sarah Palin map thing is pretty fucking wild after the fact.

Wow.

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2011, 01:41:36 PM »
from Michael Moores twitter
Quote
f a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking.

That's why I hate Michael Moore. If sarah palin happened to be muslim, the map she posted would have still been just as bad. I think the map was over the line regardless of context, though it in no way makes any of this her fault. The two are not even related.

and how do you even know this, after the FBI looked over his facebook/My-Space pages they clearly found rhetoric showing that he is berated at the politics taking place in this country and obviously moved to an extreme enough nature to shoot Giffords in the head at point blank range... The only thing that isn't out there yet, is why he chose Giffords, and it could very well be because of this list...
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Offline phil

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2011, 02:00:03 PM »
from Michael Moores twitter
Quote
f a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking.

That's why I hate Michael Moore. If sarah palin happened to be muslim, the map she posted would have still been just as bad. I think the map was over the line regardless of context, though it in no way makes any of this her fault. The two are not even related.

and how do you even know this, after the FBI looked over his facebook/My-Space pages they clearly found rhetoric showing that he is berated at the politics taking place in this country and obviously moved to an extreme enough nature to shoot Giffords in the head at point blank range... The only thing that isn't out there yet, is why he chose Giffords, and it could very well be because of this list...

How dudeman interpreted it doesn't have anything to do with how it was intended. I guess my remark was meant to capture the fact that instead of offering words of sympathy for the victims, Moore chose to use the event to make a snide remark about those he opposes politically.
sure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2011, 02:36:03 PM »
it might be a little provocative for you, phil, but there are conversations that need to be had along w/ the candle light vigils. 

Offline VDB

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2011, 02:44:21 PM »
Palin staffer defending the target map:

Quote
"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights." ... Rather, she said, that it was simply "crosshairs that you would see on a map." ... There is "nothing irresponsible about our graphic."

Crosshairs on a map? How fucking stupid does this person think we all are?

This is vile disingenuity of the highest order. Who in the world is expected to believe this bullshit?
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Offline mbw

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2011, 02:47:18 PM »
it might be a little provocative for you, phil, but there are conversations that need to be had along w/ the candle light vigils.

+k in my head.

Offline nab

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2011, 02:49:57 PM »
it might be a little provocative for you, phil, but there are conversations that need to be had along w/ the candle light vigils.



Like:

Where do we have, in this guy's words, the admission that this was a politically motivated act based on some inspiration he garnered from a prominent right wing figurehead?


Has this come to light? (Serious question here)


Or,
Is the left just having a field day with suppositions and causation, and doing exactly what phil is suggesting Moore is doing?

Offline VDB

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2011, 03:03:26 PM »
it might be a little provocative for you, phil, but there are conversations that need to be had along w/ the candle light vigils.



Like:

Where do we have, in this guy's words, the admission that this was a politically motivated act based on some inspiration he garnered from a prominent right wing figurehead?


Has this come to light? (Serious question here)


Or,
Is the left just having a field day with suppositions and causation, and doing exactly what phil is suggesting Moore is doing?

Important questions. I for one am more than willing to reserve judgment about the lunatic's motivation until that can be determined. But in the meantime, it's still fair to say things like, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't use things like crosshairs and targets and 'reload' and '2nd Amendment remedies' when talking about our political opponents. Ya know, just in case some unstable whackjob somewhere might be listening." It should be plainly obvious to thinking people that this kind of hyperactive rhetoric only served the purpose of riling up political constituencies, and it is both irresponsible and cynical -- there are countless other ways to make one's arguments without having to rely on sly references to violent insurrection. If nothing else, this incident has prompted an overdue conversation that might have been dismissed previously as oversensitive, liberal whining.

And then for a Palin rep to try and tell us the sky is green, that's inexcusable. Why didn't she just have the guts to come out and say, "Wait until we know the shooter's motives before condemning us. We won't be held accountable for the actions of a lone nut job."
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Offline mbw

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Re: Have you heard about...? (Politics edition)
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2011, 03:08:50 PM »
it might be a little provocative for you, phil, but there are conversations that need to be had along w/ the candle light vigils.



Like:

Where do we have, in this guy's words, the admission that this was a politically motivated act based on some inspiration he garnered from a prominent right wing figurehead?


Has this come to light? (Serious question here)


Or,
Is the left just having a field day with suppositions and causation, and doing exactly what phil is suggesting Moore is doing?

i believe its more a commentary on the tone of politics right now on.  SP continually uses gun metaphors, as did giffords opponent jesse kelly:



whether or not this deranged person was a follower of either isn't the issue.  he clearly had issues with the  government and used a gun to make his point. 

the point of moore and others pointing this out is that this type of lexicon has no place in politics and has real, horrible consequences.