have you heard about...?

[susep]

nice discussion, props to all but spec. I like what nab and mar conveyed.   

[Marmar]

Without out organized religion, I truly believe some people would wander off aimlessly and get run over by life.

Ahhh....but then, isn't that part of the natural way of things?....*shouldn't they be left behind?*.....again, "every soul must be saved".....so they can milk it for all it has.....make it work for them instead of themselves.....Sure, some folks are lost.....but if left on its own, it would naturally either become part of the "group" or be "phased out".....This is where the power of persuasion and the power of suggesting to the weakened mind that becomes dangerous. I see some of the situations being completely exploited this way for THEIR gain, not the individuals.

Think of it in the same way the Army is going after recruits......We'll pay for college! (since you're from a poor inner-city welfare family)....See the world, interact with exotic cultures, and don't forget to kill them before they kill you! I'm not anti-military....it is needed.....I'm anti-recruiting techniques that take advantage of weakened mind states and use their influential propaganda to do their dirty work.....

I'll even go way out on a limb here, so bear with me.....
<rant>
Take my situation. The hospital I go to, is church backed....like, the church runs the hospital. I can't even begin to explain how dirty some of these tactics really are. I'm sure if I wasn't on top of my shit mentally, they'd be able to exploit it and convert my ass into something they want me to "believe I need to be in order to get better". Every time I'm sitting there getting pumped with these toxic chemicals, there stands a nun/sister/penguin/whatever, asking me if after I get thru this if it would be proof enough for me to accept the "lord our savior heysoose christ"......WTF man! Here I am...you don't know me....you don't know what I believe in.....you know nothing about me except the fact that I am a potential dollar on the collection plate if you get me into your church. I totally appreciate the fact they are doing what they are for me at their hospital; reducing the bills immensely, super flexible payment schedule, amazing doctors, yadda yadda yadda......but how dare they, try to take advantage of someone who is SICK and fighting for their life by trying to get me to believe something and hold as all knowing fact above all else......UGGGGHHHHHHHH! 

If you want me that bad, implant the electrodes please....cuz I'm NOT that easy.....
</rant>

[sophist]

From another thread:
http://week4paug.net/index.php/topic,7349.msg123315.html#msg123315

I can't speak for RJ, but my beef is that modern Christianity is nothing more than a marketing ploy to fill the seats of a church in order to market god via flat screen TVs, state of the art light shows, crappy rock music, and an uncanny level of verbosity that would confuse God himself. 

American Christians in particular have this sense that wealth is a gift from god, and that just isn't true.  As you know, the bible paints a picture of people who serve a god, and ask for little in return.  Now preachers claim that god will reward those who tithe and attend church.  The bottom line is that anyone gets into heaven if they repent, but this is ignored.  Agendas are made on bullshit social premises that discriminate and isolate society.  It is completely corrupt from an organized perspective.  Those that are on their own with god, may have a better understanding and be more faithful to a god, but they are few and far between. 

For me, I see religion as a fuse that creates differences in mankind.  I do favor the notion presented by the English philosopher Francis Bacon, that the removal of institutional religion would create a global society of peace.  I think the major problems of war are fueled by organized religion more than any other factor in this day in age.  Look at the misogynistic nature of the Islamic nations which is due entirely to religion, and the "war" on homosexuality in the states.  These could be avoided had people realized that views are all relative to that reality.  It's wrong to presume that one's set of values is fit for society.  Its even more unjust to limit the choices of individuals due to some intangible entity. 

[sunrisevt]

"Sure, any old soul is worth saving, at least to a priest, but not every soul is worth buying--so you can take the offer as a compliment." --William S. Burroughs

:evil: :banana:

[Marmar]

lol.....wiseass

Just trying to lighten the mood...
I agree with most of what you said though.
:-)

[bluecaravan521]

good points mar- i really liked the point about the god within us...I mean if no religion told people what to think- think about how many million different faiths there would be! Everyone could believe what they wanted about god(s), the afterlife...etc. thats what i try to do with my own faith, I try to do what I believe, I'm not intimidated by the church and its overwhelming numbers into thinking that MY version of things is wrong... 
I've pretty much cast of all church relations from myself, although the one thing that I think should be useful but fails pretty terribly is the morality that it promotes...and while so many people throughout history from the crusaders to phelps do not follow the morality of their religions, I tend to agree with most of the morals christianity puts forth...

[rowjimmy]

After reading this entire thread I have one thing to add:

[alcoholandcoffeebeans]

oh eddie.....

[nab]

"Sure, any old soul is worth saving, at least to a priest, but not every soul is worth buying--so you can take the offer as a compliment." --William S. Burroughs

:evil: :banana:

Never trust a religious son-of-a-bitch.  His word ain't worth shit, not with the good Lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal.

-William S Burroughs "Advice for Young People"

[sunrisevt]

"Sure, any old soul is worth saving, at least to a priest, but not every soul is worth buying--so you can take the offer as a compliment." --William S. Burroughs

:evil: :banana:

Never trust a religious son-of-a-bitch.  His word ain't worth shit, not with the good Lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal.

-William S Burroughs "Advice for Young People"

"If, after having been exposed to someone's presence, you fell as if you've lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence."

Did you learn this off the Material album, nab?

[nab]

No, I learned it off the box set.  Damn I wish I still had that.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-William-Burroughs-Giorno-Systems/dp/B000006CMX

And I remembered this morning that I screwed up the quote.  It actually goes like this:

If you're doing business with a religious son-of-a-bitch, get it in witting. Why, his word ain't shit, not with the good Lord telling 'im how to fuck you on the deal.  -William S. Burroughs 

[sunrisevt]

That's right--I missed it in your post. Is the reading set to music in that set? You might want to check out Material's "Hallucination Engine"--Burroughs is only on one track, but the album is good trancy-trippy stuff.

[nab]

A buddy of mine had that album, I've heard it before.  Not really my cup of tea music wise.  The reading I quoted is not set to music, but took place at a college.  That box set is great for the fist track on the second cd "Ah Pook Is Here: Air Pook Is The Mayan God Of Death,".  I love the irony in that one and it appeals to my archeology nerdiness.

[Bobafett]

what ever happened to the incan empire?  Has anyone been to Machu Pichu?

Mar, that hospital shit ain't right...its like fucking a really drunk 18 yr old at a wedding reception, minus the fun coitus...ok, maybe that's not a good analogy, but i feel where you are coming from.

[nab]

Mayan or Incan?



The Mayans are still in the Yucatan.  The Incans were torn apart by a combination of the Spanish and rival tribes the Spanish had hired to do their dirty work.  Thats the short answer.