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'Capitalism: A Love Story' - In Theatres October 2nd

Started by mbw, August 21, 2009, 04:14:50 PM

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gah

Quote from: fauxpaxfauxreal on August 27, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
Yeah.  I also don't like how he oversimplifies issues as if they are so easy to fix.
\

Yeah, but you got to appreciate the fact that he is actually bringing the issues up at all. And the oversimplification of them is a result of trying to make it easy for the general public to understand complicated issues.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.

sophist

Quote from: goodabouthood on August 28, 2009, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: fauxpaxfauxreal on August 27, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
Yeah.  I also don't like how he oversimplifies issues as if they are so easy to fix.
\

Yeah, but you got to appreciate the fact that he is actually bringing the issues up at all. And the oversimplification of them is a result of trying to make it easy for the general public to understand complicated issues.
So you're fine with dumbing down a point as opposed to having society raise itself so it can understand the point? 
I prefer the latter.  I don't usually say this, but I agree with Faux. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

sls.stormyrider

fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

I know, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I do get the impression that he at least thinks things through and researches his topics
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

gah

Quote from: Sophist on August 28, 2009, 09:49:22 AM
Quote from: goodabouthood on August 28, 2009, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: fauxpaxfauxreal on August 27, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
Yeah.  I also don't like how he oversimplifies issues as if they are so easy to fix.
\

Yeah, but you got to appreciate the fact that he is actually bringing the issues up at all. And the oversimplification of them is a result of trying to make it easy for the general public to understand complicated issues.
So you're fine with dumbing down a point as opposed to having society raise itself so it can understand the point? 
I prefer the latter.  I don't usually say this, but I agree with Faux.

Well, ideally you would have society see a problem, and raise itselfup to try and understand a complicated issue, such as the healthcare one going on right now. But come on now, re-educating a large percentage of folks isn't going to happen. That leads to those that do understand things making all the decisions, a type of patriarchal society. But if you "dumb it down" into the form of a 90 minute movie for the masses to understand and have them starts at least thinking about the issues at hand and asking questions and putting pressure on those that govern them, then yes, I agree with dumbing down a point. It beats the alternative of thinking that people are willing to put in the time and energy into understanding the complex issues that we face today.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.

sophist

This is where we disagree.  You're setting up a herd society in my opinion because dependence is required for information to be dispersed through society.  Where as I'm arguing that if you don't understand something, it's up to you to take the means to understand it.  If you don't, then you're shit out of luck.  I think a huge problem in our country is a lack of support for education and knowledge.  As a whole, and generally speaking, we have an anti-intellectual society (especially in the conservative section of the country).  As a result, I feel like dumbing it down does no greater good, as it's an inherent simplification of the situation, and in the end fails to get each person to think.  This yields a docile society which is quite easy to manipulate.  We see this now, and I think that this country greatly needs another intellectual revolution. 

I'm not saying we should all be geniuses, but it's quite sad when basic economic, philosophical, and ethical tenants can't be discussed, as the tenants are the origin of all political and social beliefs.  I think a failure to understand them is a failure to understand what you stand for, and therefore you become a parrot in my eyes.  You simply echo something because it sounds good or your family also believes it.   

I'm not saying every single person should raise up their intellectual level either, but on a general level, a positive shift would have beneficial effects on this country.   
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

blatboom

Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

talk about dumbing things down..

gah

I think we have similar ideas there on the end product, just different ways of how we get there. I feel that getting people talking and informing them of the issues, in whatever way you can bring it to their attention, is a good thing. Even if only a small percentage of those that see a film for example, decide to take it a step further and research the topic and start a discussion within their community or start being more involved in the political process, thats the first step in that positive shift you are talking about. Leaving up to the individual to go out and find these things themselves without the stimulus to do so is just about impossible simply because most folks would rather live in their state of blissful ignorance. That is until you threaten to take away their guns!  :-P

Quote from: Sophist on August 28, 2009, 11:01:56 AM
I'm not saying every single person should raise up their intellectual level either, but on a general level, a positive shift would have beneficial effects on this country.   
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.

sls.stormyrider

Quote from: blatboom on August 28, 2009, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

talk about dumbing things down..
ok, ok  - just using the same words they use (see Jon Stewart / youtube thread).
This wasn't meant to label conservatives in general, just the hate mongers on tv.

how about this:

fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative media outlets who are intolerant of every view except their own, promote hatred and more intolerance.
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

kellerb

Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: blatboom on August 28, 2009, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

talk about dumbing things down..
ok, ok  - just using the same words they use (see Jon Stewart / youtube thread).
This wasn't meant to label conservatives in general, just the hate mongers on tv.

how about this:

fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative media outlets who are intolerant of every view except their own, promote hatred and more intolerance.
Also, they killed a bunch of Jews.

sophist

Quote from: kellerb on August 28, 2009, 12:14:36 PM
Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: blatboom on August 28, 2009, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

talk about dumbing things down..
ok, ok  - just using the same words they use (see Jon Stewart / youtube thread).
This wasn't meant to label conservatives in general, just the hate mongers on tv.

how about this:

fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative media outlets who are intolerant of every view except their own, promote hatred and more intolerance.
Also, they killed a bunch of Jews.
Quintin says differently. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Hicks

If you are watching movies to become informed about politics then I'd say that's the real problem.  You aren't going to really get enough information from a documentary to get a true grasp of most issues. 

I look at his movies as entertainment first and foremost and then as just a starting point for deeper discussions/examinations of the topics he covers.

If it stimulates real conversations/debate then I think that's got to be a good thing, and actually counteracts the anti-intellectual tendencies that are running rampant in our culture right now.
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

fauxpaxfauxreal

Quote from: slslbs on August 28, 2009, 10:15:08 AM
fwiw, he appeals on a much higher level than Rush, coulter, and the other members of the conservative "nazis"

I know, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I do get the impression that he at least thinks things through and researches his topics

I think it's this kind of credibility that makes me like him even less.  He has a little bit of credibility so some of those that agree with him, think he is right on all of the time.

His over-simplification, tho, opens the debate up for him to lose his credibility.

What I mean is, I agree with his points, but his attitude and oversimplification epitomize how more often than not he is preaching to the choir and not really converting those who don't know how they are wrong.

rowjimmy

I personally know Fahrenheit 911 converted some folks.
Sort of what Hicks just said; the kick in the ass to start to look more closely at a situation rather than accept the same old spoon feeding.

Superfreakie

#28
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 31, 2009, 12:06:44 PM
I personally know Fahrenheit 911 converted some folks.
Sort of what Hicks just said; the kick in the ass to start to look more closely at a situation rather than accept the same old spoon feeding.

I had been jumping up and down screaming bloody murder for years, yet it was Fahrenheit that finally got some of my friends to sit down and ask questions. Although you might believe it is a poor conduit, look at the ignorance one has to compete with if one wishes to convey intellectual thought. The majority of society are either a bunch of ignorant morons or people who have far too much to worry about in their immediate lives than care and learn how they might really be getting fucked, whether from the right or left. Love him or hate him, Michael Moore understands that. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


Que te vaya bien, que te vaya bien, Te quiero más que las palabras pueden decir.

gah

Quote from: Superfreakie on August 31, 2009, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 31, 2009, 12:06:44 PM
I personally know Fahrenheit 911 converted some folks.
Sort of what Hicks just said; the kick in the ass to start to look more closely at a situation rather than accept the same old spoon feeding.

I had been jumping up and down screaming bloody murder for years, yet it was Fahrenheit that finally got some of my friends to sit down and ask questions. Although you might believe it is a poor conduit, look at the ignorance one has to compete with if one wishes to convey intellectual thought. The majority of society are either a bunch of ignorant morons or people who have far too much to worry about in their immediate lives than care and learn how they might really be getting fucked, whether from the right or left. Love him or hate him, Michael Moore understands that. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


That was the point I was trying to make, maybe poorly earlier, when Sophist and I were discussing it. There's nothing wrong with "dumbing it down", if it causes folks to get a "kick in the ass to start to look more closely at a situation," as RJ said.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.