Author Topic: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>  (Read 32348 times)

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Offline sophist

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Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« on: August 06, 2009, 09:48:07 AM »
Manual for right wingers


Pretty scary.  It's a long read but worth it.  This is just crazy, deceitful, and it seems counterintuitive to the whole idea of having a forum to discuss it. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 09:49:11 AM »
Have you hugged your healthcare conglomerate today?

Offline sophist

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 10:05:34 AM »
Have you hugged your healthcare conglomerate today?
no.  I actually want the public option. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 10:14:43 AM »
Have you hugged your healthcare conglomerate today?
no.  I actually want the public option. 

Me too. I'm a HUGE socialist.

Offline sophist

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 10:18:43 AM »
Have you hugged your healthcare conglomerate today?
no.  I actually want the public option. 

Me too. I'm a HUGE socialist.
comrade, let us flood the streets with Marxist doctrine then!
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline Guyute

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 12:06:44 AM »
The right wing tactics are crazy.   I want healthcare for everyone, but I think that the original and the watered down plans don't get us there.  Even the original proposal left 20 million people out.

I want to see this one not get passed, but rather modified.
Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy bitch, I support Scotland.

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 08:06:57 AM »
At this point, the ball-less dems have allowed themselves to be bullied so badly that there won't be a public option.
Why the hell do you seek to achieve a majority and celebrate it when you get there if you're just going to pander to the minority members of the chamber and squander your power?

The Republitards never did that.

Of course they were busy squeezing the soul out of our nation...

Offline slslbs

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 10:13:23 PM »
wouldn't it be really cool if the GOP leaders got together with the Dems and come up with some kind of compromise instead of making this some kind of attempted power grab?
don't these guys work for us?

oh - I foget -  power is more important than actually governing and doing something good for the country.
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but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
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Offline Superfreakie

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 03:11:27 AM »
Just two things of note: First, the woman you see all over your TV set who is a Canadian speaking out about how she got screwed by the Canadian system is full of shit and our health minister was livid over her claims (a TV program here did an investigation into her case as well and proved it was bunk). What she needed done was not an emergency and was bearing no immediate impact on her life and as such she was asked to wait a brief period. Had it been threatening, she would of been taken care of right away, that is how our system works, the most in need first. And yes, sometimes you have to wait an inordinate amount of time in a waiting room......but its free.....for everyone. She is being paid huge cash for these ads and has admitted such on another program here in Canada.

Second, the other set of ads that have been running feature a bald headed lobbyist spewing about government health care, I am sure you have seen him. Well he ran a massive health conglomerate.........that was eventually charged with the biggest fine ever levied in American history. The company had to pay 1.7 billion for having defrauded the U.S. government over the period of ten years (I think). And he is currently running a large part of the right's lobbying campaign. Sadly, the right have a lot of good arguments, it's just they are being drowned out by the lunatic fringe and the over-zealous lobbyists who fuel them. Here is the interview CNN's Rick Sanchez had where he questions him about the fine; artful dodger.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rick-sanchez-takes-conservatives-patients    
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 04:25:51 AM by Superfreakie »
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Offline thechad

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 04:06:48 AM »
I think I'm going to move to France.
"There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese."          -Bobby Finstock

Offline slslbs

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 08:19:18 AM »
Just two things of note: First, the woman you see all over your TV set who is a Canadian speaking out about how she got screwed by the Canadian system is full of shit and our health minister was livid over her claims (a TV program here did an investigation into her case as well and proved it was bunk). What she needed done was not an emergency and was bearing no immediate impact on her life and as such she was asked to wait a brief period. Had it been threatening, she would of been taken care of right away, that is how our system works, the most in need first. And yes, sometimes you have to wait an inordinate amount of time in a waiting room......but its free.....for everyone. She is being paid huge cash for these ads and has admitted such on another program here in Canada.

Second, the other set of ads that have been running feature a bald headed lobbyist spewing about government health care, I am sure you have seen him. Well he ran a massive health conglomerate.........that was eventually charged with the biggest fine ever levied in American history. The company had to pay 1.7 billion for having defrauded the U.S. government over the period of ten years (I think). And he is currently running a large part of the right's lobbying campaign. Sadly, the right have a lot of good arguments, it's just they are being drowned out by the lunatic fringe and the over-zealous lobbyists who fuel them. Here is the interview CNN's Rick Sanchez had where he questions him about the fine; artful dodger.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rick-sanchez-takes-conservatives-patients    
thanks - not only did he run a health care conglomerate that was fined for fraud, it was a for profit company.

Question for Daren, or Matt, or any Canadian pauger. I understand there's a private insurance system in Canada as well. How many people use it? Why? who are they?

And finally, a couple comments about the current system from someone who has seen both sides. I realize in a way I'm preaching to the choir cause most of us are leftist hippies, but still...

If you're worried about a govt or insurance company getting between you and your doctor, it is ALREADY HAPPENING. Private companies put up more hoops and roadblocks than Medicare. I'm no fan of Medicare either. The Pres uses Mayo Clinic as an example of a high quality, cost efficient system. According to Time mag, Mayo is losing money on their Medicare patients. Something is wrong.

The system is too expensive. People with insurance, in general, get too much testing and care. That's why all those roadblocks are there. To some degree, they are necessary.

Why is too much stuff being done? Several reasons, imo. some generalizations, in no order
-many patients want everything done. some have "unreal" expectations

-doctors and patients embrace new (expensive) technology marketed as the latest and greatest thing, before it is adequately tested

-doctors want to do anything they can to help their patients and order extra tests 'just to be safe". patients like that. An unwanted consequence is too much information and false positive tests, that lead to more testing and more money spent. Any time more stuff is done, there also is a small but real chance something can go wrong. There are potential complications to everything, even cat scans (long term effects of radiation, etc).

-doctors want to do anything they can to avoid getting sued. THERE NEEDS TO BE TORT REFORM

-Most overutilization by doctors is not merely to get paid more. Most tests  (x rays, stress tests) are ordered by doctors who get NOTHING for ordering the test. Cutting the reimbursement for these tests won't decrease the amount of tests ordered, cause the docs ordered don't get anything now - they don't care what the reimbursement is. they just want the test result (or think they do)

-hospitals and doctors get paid fee for service. While it is sadly true that some docs order things to pad their income (this is regrettable), from my observations in New England, this is the vast minority.

-medicine is expensive. it is labor intensive, delivered by highly trained people. (who do you want taking care of you during and emergencey at 2 AM?) drugs are expensive. medical equipment is expensive. for all the bitching about drug companies, much of it justified, right now it takes about $100 million to launch a new drug. For every 100 drugs tested, less than 5 actually make it to market.

-I wish I knew how to fix it

end of rant.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 08:23:11 AM by slslbs »
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Offline slslbs

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 08:42:05 AM »
I lied. not the end.

I forgot to mention (sorry)

the millions of people without insurance
the people with insurance, but the deductables are so high they can't afford care
the people who can't afford their prescription drugs
the people who are losing their job and their insurance, so they stop going to doctors. If they don't pay for COBRA (which they can't afford), they will have a hard time getting re-insured because of pre-existing conditions.

these people need to be covered.

again, the question is how will we all pay for it, I don't know.

and finally, somehow, there needs to be incentive for us to stop eating ourselves to death as a nation. the growing cost of obesity>diabetes>hypertension>heart disease, stroke etc is large, on a financial and human scale.
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 08:57:47 PM »
National healthcare will also relieve the impending burden on the existing Medicare program. As people age into Medicare that have not had proper healthcare during the so-called prime of their lives, they bring forward many undiagnosed and untreated conditions that are then even more expensive to treat. SLS is dead on about Americans eating themselves to death. Not just in quantity but quality. How and what we eat is a a large part of our current disfunction.

Offline jephrey

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 03:35:53 AM »
I've seen a lot of things lately that suggest that there's more like 9 million people who can't afford healthcare that whatever 40-50 million our money hungry congress people would have us believe.  That number comes from the oh so accurate census, being out of healthcare for a month puts you as a statistic on that list, people who can afford healthcare and choose not to have it (some high percentage of people in their 20s), and people who qualify for care but are uninformed.

So 9 million people should be simple to work with, but it begs the question of if we even need something other than a simple reform to what we have.
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Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2009, 08:30:48 AM »
I've seen a lot of things lately that suggest that there's more like 9 million people who can't afford healthcare that whatever 40-50 million our money hungry congress people would have us believe.  That number comes from the oh so accurate census, being out of healthcare for a month puts you as a statistic on that list, people who can afford healthcare and choose not to have it (some high percentage of people in their 20s), and people who qualify for care but are uninformed.

So 9 million people should be simple to work with, but it begs the question of if we even need something other than a simple reform to what we have.
Check your sources.
http://factcheck.org/2009/06/the-real-uninsured/