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Every American citizen must watch this: (for fucking serious)

Started by Gumbo72203, September 07, 2011, 10:54:44 PM

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Gumbo72203

Absolutely enlightening and essential if you give a shit about your future and your wealth and your personal liberty, and the fucked up craziness that is actually existing.  And its entertaining!

"Just drink some water, and breathe through your nose."  -Slim, 3/7/09


Quote from: redrum on April 04, 2010, 07:45:51 PM
%% with alternated lyrics about a 1995 jeep cherokee that was also sacraficed on this tour.

Quote from: blatboom on November 04, 2012, 08:46:54 PM
I think I got it but he's such a spaz he'll probably never open this thread again

twatts

Oh! That! No, no, no, you're not ready to step into The Court of the Crimson King. At this stage in your training an album like that could turn you into an evil scientist.

----------------------

I want super-human will
I want better than average skill
I want a million dollar bill
And I want it all in a Pill

runawayjimbo

A little long but fucking brilliant nonetheless. It's amazing you have to use cartoons to explain the shit that's actually going on (South Park had a great episode on the financial crisis/bailout too).

Cliffs Notes for Twatts: the central banking system has systematically destroyed the value of your hard earned dollar (or euro, or loonie) for the benefit of the chosen class, the bankers. Allowing a group of unelected officials to influence the global economy has exasperated the cycle of booms and busts and is the major contributor for the vast income inequality we see today. Fiat currency is a doomed system and we should return to the sound money policies on which the country was founded.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mattstick


* mattstick shows his Canadian passport so he doesn't have to watch.

...phew...

twatts

Quote from: runawayjimbo on September 08, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
Cliffs Notes for Twatts: the central banking system has systematically destroyed the value of your hard earned dollar (or euro, or loonie) for the benefit of the chosen class, the bankers. Allowing a group of unelected officials to influence the global economy has exasperated the cycle of booms and busts and is the major contributor for the vast income inequality we see today. Fiat currency is a doomed system and we should return to the sound money policies on which the country was founded.

Thanks, that's what I thought...  Glad I didn't waste my time...

Terry
Oh! That! No, no, no, you're not ready to step into The Court of the Crimson King. At this stage in your training an album like that could turn you into an evil scientist.

----------------------

I want super-human will
I want better than average skill
I want a million dollar bill
And I want it all in a Pill

oversee

Quote from: runawayjimbo on September 08, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
A little long but fucking brilliant nonetheless. It's amazing you have to use cartoons to explain the shit that's actually going on (South Park had a great episode on the financial crisis/bailout too).

I love South Park. They take things to such extremes to show how stupid things are. I think there is a lot to learn from South Park. It is very educational. They should add it to the curriculum in high school.

zimbra

Quote from: oversee on September 22, 2011, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on September 08, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
A little long but fucking brilliant nonetheless. It's amazing you have to use cartoons to explain the shit that's actually going on (South Park had a great episode on the financial crisis/bailout too).

I love South Park. They take things to such extremes to show how stupid things are. I think there is a lot to learn from South Park. It is very educational. They should add it to the curriculum in high school.

How about you just watch the news.
"Good Funk, real funk is not played by four white guys from Vermont.. If anything, you could call what we're doing cow funk or something.."
- Trey Anastasio

oversee

Because South Park is more interesting. It was a joke about adding it to the high school curriculum. However, someone once made a very cute cartoon about how a bill went through the steps to get through congress and I bet more kids would pay attention to that than to a lecture.

Guyute

My 1 problem is that this is another shining example of not putting responsibility on people who took out the loans.  Just because someone was willing to approve a loan they couldn't afford doesn't mean they had to take it.   A basic internet search would have shown from may experts and sources what you could afford, what 5/1 and 7/1 ARM's were and people would have seen they couldn't afford them.  Instead they let the crack dealer tell them it was health food and believed them.

Sorry, but I have a huge problem with the lack of personal responsibility the American public has taken on this issue.  Not saying the banks should have loaned to these people, they are culpable here, just saying that the other piece never comes up, they just play the victim.
Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy; I support Scotland.

rowjimmy

You can't put the cart before the horse.

The "demand" was not on the consumer side. The true driving demand was the industry that bundled and securitized the loans.

Those loans would not have existed if the financial sector weren't grubbing up any and all loans for securitization and pushing the lenders/brokers to sign everyfuckingbody and their brokeass uncle up for a loan.


Guyute

I disagree with which was the cart and which was the horse.   Lenders starting pushing the loans and there were so many they were hard to sell (common practice for a long time).  Then they bundled them into securities to facilitate that.

Then came the realization of how many of them were high risk so AIG created the insurance securities to create a hedge figuring the market would never crash.

But, let's say it is the other way around, I believe my point still stands, the consumer still had to buy what they couldn't afford to make the whole thing work.

Not saying the banks and brokers aren't to blame, just saying I am sick of the public playing the victim rather than the partner they were on the ride.  And no, I don't work for 1 of the companies that was doing this. 
Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy; I support Scotland.

sls.stormyrider

Quote from: Guyute on September 25, 2011, 05:30:15 AM
My 1 problem is that this is another shining example of not putting responsibility on people who took out the loans.  Just because someone was willing to approve a loan they couldn't afford doesn't mean they had to take it.   A basic internet search would have shown from may experts and sources what you could afford, what 5/1 and 7/1 ARM's were and people would have seen they couldn't afford them.  Instead they let the crack dealer tell them it was health food and believed them.

Sorry, but I have a huge problem with the lack of personal responsibility the American public has taken on this issue.  Not saying the banks should have loaned to these people, they are culpable here, just saying that the other piece never comes up, they just play the victim.
well - your right - if things sound too good to be true, they are, and people should know what they are signing.
but-
the consumers weren't being told they couldn't afford it
remember that these loans were being heavily pushed by the loan industry. Even you can get a mortgage! Low rates! Heavily advertised and promoted. and poorly explained. If the rate goes up, you can re-fi.

and if the person did apply, those loans should not have been approved. Banks shouldn't loan money to people who they don't think could pay it back.
but, the industry made them more profitable, because they were higher risk

don't forget about the forged loan documents, giving loans to people without enough income, and the fact that many of these papers were "robo singed"

do you think many of these consumers really had a clue about what they were buying when someone pushed a variable that started sub prime? and how many times do you think the answer was - don't worry about it - you can refinance when the rate comes up.

from my own experience,  every time I looked for a house I was pushed into something more expensive than I wanted to pay. when I did a re-fi during those times, on more than one occasion the agent was pushing very hard for a crazy variable loan that I didn't want, and tried to make it sound like an unbeatable deal. It was almost as if they were getting paid extra to right crazy variables.

Bottom line - those loans shouldn't have been on the market, and shouldn't have been approved. In the "old days", the banks wouldn't approve crappy loans because they were afraid they couldn't sell them on the 2e market. With proper packaging and derivatives, the 2e market didn't care. The mortgage brokers got pain as long as the loan closed and didn't give a shit about the long term - nobody did.
and then there was the fraud.
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Guyute

Completely agree with you about what went on.   I guess I took it upon myself to research before dealing with any of these things and could quickly establish they were bad using old Mortgage calcs on the web that showed what would happen.   

I've said it before, never trust the person selling you something to tell you the truth.  Go through life thinking they are all bald face liars, otherwise you will get what you asked for.
Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy; I support Scotland.

runawayjimbo

I hold the consumers at least as culpable as the banks. Everyone wants to blame Goldman and "predatory lending". But at the end of the day, when you sign your name (over and over again, as anyone who's closed on a house knows the amount of paperwork involved) you are responsible for that debt. If you can't figure out that you're payment will be 3x your monthly gross pay after the rate adjusts, you probably shouldn't be buying a house in the first place. People fault the banks for shitty risk management but refuse to see they made the same basic error the banks did: assuming housing prices can only ever go up. The banks clearly acted like the arrogant assholes they are, but that wouldn't have been an issue if people just did a basic smell test.

Here's another one for you, slslbs - there's another party in this disaster who often get a pass: the gov't. It was HUD (pressured by both Dem and Rep lawmakers) that created the majority of the really shitty loans when they mandated Fannie/Freddie increase their lending to unqualified buyers. They probably thought they were helping and I guess it sounds logical enough: a person who owns their home will have more pride and respect in their homes and their communities. But this is how the unintended consequences of gov'tal intervention play out. Fannie/Freddie need more shitty loans to meet the mandated targets, so brokers and regional banks ease underwriting standards (what do they care, they're only originating the loans to sell to Fannie/Freddie anyway). Fannie/Freddie have to do something with them so they sell the garbage to Wall St (although they can't get enough shit off their books so they're eventually insolvent too). Wall St securitizes them, realizes what a racket it is, and starts with the financial alchemy because there aren't enough subprime borrowers to satisfy their appetite.

So there's plenty of blame to go around (we didn't even mention the rating agencies). But let's not forget who really created this disaster: Krugman :wink:

Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

sls.stormyrider

Quote from: Guyute on September 26, 2011, 12:11:48 AM
Completely agree with you about what went on.   I guess I took it upon myself to research before dealing with any of these things and could quickly establish they were bad using old Mortgage calcs on the web that showed what would happen.   

I've said it before, never trust the person selling you something to tell you the truth.  Go through life thinking they are all bald face liars, otherwise you will get what you asked for.

very true.
most people aren't that clever unfortunately
mortgage brokers know that and take advantage of that

there would be no successful con men if people were smart enough to figure it out. Goldman and co didn't break the law - of course they wrote the laws due to their influence on DC (both parties). What they did was highly unethical. They themselves can be accused of being almost as dumb as the public they conned, because they didn't see the long term consequences - other than getting themselves rich. Or maybe they did see the consequences, which is worse

yes, the govt is also partly responsible for "encouraging" low income buyers.
also, repeal of Glass-Steagall act was a disaster. Many conservative columnists and bankers were pushing for it's reinstatement in 2008.

don't forget the fraud, falsifiied data, etc

of course, the people who should have known better paid the consequences. they lost their house and whatever credit they have.
what consequences did Goldmanand their friends pay?

so I'll agree that the crisis wasn't caused by Goldman alone, there were many accomplices.
but I persist in believing that those loans should have never been approved, much less encouraged (higher risk = higher gain).
If those loans weren't created many people wouldn't have thought they could even buy a house in the 1st place.
and the whole derivative market and CDS is crazy. Why that shouldn't be regulated is beyond me.

edit "goldman" is a euphemism for the entire financial industry, inc AIG and the ratings agencies (S+P) etc
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."