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Please, Please Leave my Party!!!!!!!!!!!

Started by sophist, October 01, 2007, 10:02:25 PM

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cactusfan

Quote from: Hicks on October 08, 2007, 11:38:12 AM
Sweet, belittling other's beliefs, nice "contribution" to the discussion brah.

right, but it's fine to make a mockery of anyone who actually thinks it's worth knowing something about scientific pursuits. make science into a joke, then claim the only possible alternative is whatever god you're promoting. then, should somene come along and point out that such a belief is ludicrous, we get snarky comments like yours.

would it kill people to read up on science before denouncing it as absurd? the beauty of science is that it's based on observation. you can read it, and follow it, and understand it, if you really try.

with religion, there is nothing to read or follow. by definition, there is no evidence. it wouldn't be religion with evidence. why i should feel compelled not to mention that fact so i don't 'offend' someone is beyond me.

mr. mirth made a joke of science, somehow leading him to the conclusion that his particular religion/god is the only reasonable replacement. i called him on it.

Bobafett

Don't forget about Chester Copperpot, Guys.
The events in our lives happen in a sequence in time, but in their significance to ourselves they find their own order; the continuous thread of revelation.

Hicks

Quote from: cactusfan on October 08, 2007, 02:06:04 PM
right, but it's fine to make a mockery of anyone who actually thinks it's worth knowing something about scientific pursuits. make science into a joke, then claim the only possible alternative is whatever god you're promoting. then, should somene come along and point out that such a belief is ludicrous, we get snarky comments like yours.

would it kill people to read up on science before denouncing it as absurd? the beauty of science is that it's based on observation. you can read it, and follow it, and understand it, if you really try.

with religion, there is nothing to read or follow. by definition, there is no evidence. it wouldn't be religion with evidence. why i should feel compelled not to mention that fact so i don't 'offend' someone is beyond me.

mr. mirth made a joke of science, somehow leading him to the conclusion that his particular religion/god is the only reasonable replacement. i called him on it.

Mockery?  Snarky?  I just thought your comment was condescending and added nothing to the debate so I figured I would call like I saw it.  The conversation had already ended days ago and yet you felt compelled to hurl an insult at mirth anyway, why is that necessary?

With religion there is nothing to read or follow?  Ooookaaaay.  :roll:
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

cactusfan

well if i replied past the official end date of this conversation, i certainly apologize. i must not have noted the date of the last reply. what is the limit, by the way? looks like-- three days?

you can read every bible ever written by every culture ever born, you're still not going to have any more proof of religious beliefs than when you started, was my point. they are, by definition, without proof. therein lies their power.

if, on the other hand, one was actually curious why scientists have concluded various truths about this universe, they could read books showing every step of every experiment. if one looked hard enough with enough insight, one might even find an error and correct it. one could be einstein and correct newton.

anyway, this conversation ended four days ago...

rowjimmy

As this conversation began on the point of religious radicals and their involvement in a particular party, I'd have to say it's a long time before it's over.

mbw

thanks again hicks...

first off... i think im about as far left as this board gets
i dont ever remember making a mockery/joke of science or the people who believe in every theory...just defended those who have faith in a higher power...

heck... i believe and am fascinated by science...my whole point was that the line between rep and dem cannot be drawn upon those lines...there are scads of lefties who believe in a god/creator/higher power...whatever you choose to call it...and dont believe that she/he/it is talking to bush, directing him to war...which is completely contradictory to christianity

i just feel that so called leftist like...oh say...bill maher...who use the "man in the clouds" rhetoric all the time, really do a disservice to the left...as the vast majority of americans, and the worlds population, who are peaceful...believe in some form of a creator...and turn people off...

atheism is not the majority opinion on the left

just look at a mountain...your mother/brother/daughter/wife...a tree...the sky...et al...
way to beautiful to be an accident, imho
thinking we (scientists) have it all figured out is just as closed minded as a religious fundamentalist thinking the same

quotes from albert einstein:

Quote
"God is subtle but he is not malicious."

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

"God does not care about our mathematical difficulties. He integrates empirically."

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

and the kicker:

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."



sophist

QuoteIt seems to me that men do not rightly understand either their store or their strength, but overrate the one and underrate the other.  Hence it follows, that either from an extravagant estimate of the value of the arts which they possess, they seek no further;  or else from too mean an estimate of their own powers, they spend their strength in small matters and never put it fairly to the trial in those which go to the main

QuoteAnd for its value and utility it must be plainly avowed that that wisdom which we have derived from the Greeks is but like the boyhood of knowledge, and has the characteristic property of boys: it can talk, but it cannot generate; for it is fruitful of controversies but barren of works

QuoteNow the doctrines which find most favour with the populace are those which are either contentious and pugnacious, or specious and empty; such, I say, as either entangle assent or tickle it.  And therefore no doubt the greatest wits in each successive age have been forced out of their own course; men of capacity and intellect above the vulgar having been fain, for reputation's sake, to bow to the judgment of the time and the multitude' and thus if any contemplations of a higher order took light anywhere, they were presently blown out by the winds of vulgar opinions
-Sir Francis Bacon 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Hicks

Quote from: cactusfan on October 08, 2007, 08:27:49 PM
well if i replied past the official end date of this conversation, i certainly apologize. i must not have noted the date of the last reply. what is the limit, by the way? looks like-- three days?

you can read every bible ever written by every culture ever born, you're still not going to have any more proof of religious beliefs than when you started, was my point. they are, by definition, without proof. therein lies their power.

if, on the other hand, one was actually curious why scientists have concluded various truths about this universe, they could read books showing every step of every experiment. if one looked hard enough with enough insight, one might even find an error and correct it. one could be einstein and correct newton.

anyway, this conversation ended four days ago...

Actually trolls like yours always suck, they're just even more annoying and unnecessary when tacked onto a dead topic that you hadn't even participated in the first time around.
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

cactusfan

Quote from: Hicks on October 08, 2007, 10:14:43 PM
Actually trolls like yours always suck, they're just even more annoying and unnecessary when tacked onto a dead topic that you hadn't even participated in the first time around.

jesus h. christ, dude, what form of large rodent crawled up your ass and called it home? maybe i can fetch a pillow for its head to make you feel better?

i'm truly fascinated by this whole time limit issue that's so consumed you. when is a conversation 'current' on an online message board? when does it expire? it would seem that others have now continued the discussion. are you upset with them? or is it okay because they were 'here' the first 'time' around?

god forbid i should continue, but lord help me, i think i just might. but only because of your encouragement, hicks, know that. the following is entirely your fault.

mirth, i know you're here to talk about politics and how the faithful are dems and repubs. but you keep tossing out these stock catchphrases about religion and science that i admit get my blood boiling. so...

Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on October 08, 2007, 08:45:01 PM

thinking we (scientists) have it all figured out is just as closed minded as a religious fundamentalist thinking the same


what scientist thinks this? who are you talking about? the study through scientific methods-- i.e. using our meager five senses to make observations about the world around us-- is the exact opposite of religious thinking. that's the point. that 'truth' is continuously revised in the world of science is its STRENGTH.

why do you think anyone wants to learn? to explore? it's because we don't know shit! that's the whole point! bibles don't change. one doesn't get to correct them. religion tells us that mountains and our loved ones are beautiful because god made them that way. where's the wonder? why is that mysterious? why is that beauty? i truthfully haven't the slightest clue.

beauty and wonder comes from looking at the world around us and asking, how did this get here? why? the religous person says, god did it. the scientific mind looks for answers. this is why we know anything. curiosity.

religion blunts wonder. it blunts awe. it reduces what is amazing and seemingly unfathomable to one simple, unimaginative answer: god. the truly curious know that nothing is necessarily unfathomable. that which seems least likely to be rationally explained is indeed the most fascinating problem to work on.

it used to be that scientists searching for answers to such mysteries were murdered by the religious. that's the history of organized religion. killing inquiry.

Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on October 08, 2007, 08:45:01 PM

first off... i think im about as far left as this board gets
i dont ever remember making a mockery/joke of science or the people who believe in every theory...just defended those who have faith in a higher power...

well, it's just that this is such a common tactic, it got to me when you did it. you 'define' a theory, in this case the big bang, as something totally ridiculous, then say 'look how ridiculous that is! therefore, god.'

i talked to one guy who explained that he'd been to the zoo, really looked at all the animals, and the idea that one a them dang animals went and turned into another was crazy talk, therefore evolution is crazy, therefore jesus.

where has any religion ever provided any insight into anything as profound as what darwin figured out?

Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on October 08, 2007, 08:45:01 PM

just look at a mountain...your mother/brother/daughter/wife...a tree...the sky...et al...
way to beautiful to be an accident, imho

'accident'? i know, i know, you're just typing this quick and all, but this word is used for the sole purpose of denigrating a point of view. no science describes geology and evolution as an 'accident.' only people who want to make science look insulting do that.

having a grasp of all the forces that went into creating this universe, this planet, and the life on it should totally blow anyone's mind. but to say simply, 'god did it'? how does that blow anyone's mind? i don't get it. what a boring explanation! a super-being made it that way! that's amazing?

i'm done. thanks to hicks for inspiring this latest troll post. this is obviously a subject matter that gets under my skin. i just thank god that, unlike hicks, the matter hasn't yet clawed its way into my anal cavity.

happy phish, everyone!   :-)

rowjimmy


Guyute

Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy; I support Scotland.

sophist

damn.  it's gettin' hot here!



relax fellas.  Lets be civil and respectful. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Hicks

Quote from: cactusfan on October 09, 2007, 03:56:21 AM
jesus h. christ, dude, what form of large rodent crawled up your ass and called it home? maybe i can fetch a pillow for its head to make you feel better?

i'm truly fascinated by this whole time limit issue that's so consumed you. when is a conversation 'current' on an online message board? when does it expire? it would seem that others have now continued the discussion. are you upset with them? or is it okay because they were 'here' the first 'time' around?

god forbid i should continue, but lord help me, i think i just might. but only because of your encouragement, hicks, know that. the following is entirely your fault.

mirth, i know you're here to talk about politics and how the faithful are dems and repubs. but you keep tossing out these stock catchphrases about religion and science that i admit get my blood boiling. so...

what scientist thinks this? who are you talking about? the study through scientific methods-- i.e. using our meager five senses to make observations about the world around us-- is the exact opposite of religious thinking. that's the point. that 'truth' is continuously revised in the world of science is its STRENGTH.

why do you think anyone wants to learn? to explore? it's because we don't know shit! that's the whole point! bibles don't change. one doesn't get to correct them. religion tells us that mountains and our loved ones are beautiful because god made them that way. where's the wonder? why is that mysterious? why is that beauty? i truthfully haven't the slightest clue.

beauty and wonder comes from looking at the world around us and asking, how did this get here? why? the religous person says, god did it. the scientific mind looks for answers. this is why we know anything. curiosity.

religion blunts wonder. it blunts awe. it reduces what is amazing and seemingly unfathomable to one simple, unimaginative answer: god. the truly curious know that nothing is necessarily unfathomable. that which seems least likely to be rationally explained is indeed the most fascinating problem to work on.

it used to be that scientists searching for answers to such mysteries were murdered by the religious. that's the history of organized religion. killing inquiry.

well, it's just that this is such a common tactic, it got to me when you did it. you 'define' a theory, in this case the big bang, as something totally ridiculous, then say 'look how ridiculous that is! therefore, god.'

i talked to one guy who explained that he'd been to the zoo, really looked at all the animals, and the idea that one a them dang animals went and turned into another was crazy talk, therefore evolution is crazy, therefore jesus.

where has any religion ever provided any insight into anything as profound as what darwin figured out?

'accident'? i know, i know, you're just typing this quick and all, but this word is used for the sole purpose of denigrating a point of view. no science describes geology and evolution as an 'accident.' only people who want to make science look insulting do that.

having a grasp of all the forces that went into creating this universe, this planet, and the life on it should totally blow anyone's mind. but to say simply, 'god did it'? how does that blow anyone's mind? i don't get it. what a boring explanation! a super-being made it that way! that's amazing?

i'm done. thanks to hicks for inspiring this latest troll post. this is obviously a subject matter that gets under my skin. i just thank god that, unlike hicks, the matter hasn't yet clawed its way into my anal cavity.

happy phish, everyone!   :-)

Calmer than you are, dude.
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

Guyute

Everyone just needs to relax and stop putting things in each other's anal cavities, that never ends well.
Good decisions come from experience;
Experience comes from bad decisions.

About to open a bottle of Macallan.  There's my foreign policy; I support Scotland.

Bobafett

xept the on eup Richard Gere's bung, cause he made a lot of money since then. :samurai:
The events in our lives happen in a sequence in time, but in their significance to ourselves they find their own order; the continuous thread of revelation.