News:

Welcome to week4paug.net 2.1 - same as it ever was! Most features have been restored, but please keep us posted on ANY issues you may be having HERE:  https://week4paug.net/index.php/topic,23937

Main Menu

Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?

Started by emay, July 20, 2012, 09:35:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

VDB

I, too, have taken this about as far as I can take it; anyone who needs to get caught up on my positions can read through this hugely entertaining thread.

Mind if I redirect the focus back to the CO incident?

This right-wing douchebag at my gym, whom I know I've complained about before, was watching news coverage there yesterday and, as I was leaving, he turned and, unprompted, simply said "Well, you can kiss your guns goodbye." And then, "Obama blah blah blah" as I kept walking toward the door.

As fucking if. The only thing that has happened to gun ownership under Obama is that it's gone up. He has been great for the gun industry, even though they won't admit that in public. Has Obama ever said or done anything to seriously suggest he's about to go around snatching up people's firearms? I'm not aware of a thing. This is legit paranoia, and it's fairly pervasive on the mid-to-far right. Is Obama just waiting for his second term to unleash his great communist plan to steal our guns and bibles? Incredibly unlikely.
Is this still Wombat?

gah

Quote from: V00D00BR3W on July 21, 2012, 02:26:48 PM
I, too, have taken this about as far as I can take it; anyone who needs to get caught up on my positions can read through this hugely entertaining thread.

Mind if I redirect the focus back to the CO incident?

This right-wing douchebag at my gym, whom I know I've complained about before, was watching news coverage there yesterday and, as I was leaving, he turned and, unprompted, simply said "Well, you can kiss your guns goodbye." And then, "Obama blah blah blah" as I kept walking toward the door.

As fucking if. The only thing that has happened to gun ownership under Obama is that it's gone up. He has been great for the gun industry, even though they won't admit that in public. Has Obama ever said or done anything to seriously suggest he's about to go around snatching up people's firearms? I'm not aware of a thing. This is legit paranoia, and it's fairly pervasive on the mid-to-far right. Is Obama just waiting for his second term to unleash his great communist plan to steal our guns and bibles? Incredibly unlikely.

No, that's just ignorance.

Paranoia:
- a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.
- a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.

runawayjimbo

Quote from: slslbs on July 21, 2012, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on July 21, 2012, 12:02:24 AM
Wow, a lot to respond to; I'll try to keep it brief (uh-huh):

Quote from: slslbs on July 20, 2012, 12:51:23 PM
I have a hard time with those who are against banning assault rifles, armor piercing bullets, "military" type weapons (like the large clip used in AZ last year), and allowing people to buy weapons at gun shows without background checks - all based on the 2nd amendment. We clearly need some common sense regulation, something that the NRA doesn't get in their zealous ideology. They passed a law in FLA making it illegal for a pediatrician to ASK a parent if there were guns in the house (apparently gun ownership > free speech to them). Fortunately, it got overturned by the court.

On your first point, I guess the issue I might take is what/who defines what an assault rifle is? I don't know shit about guns, but I've heard the term "assault rifle" had been stretched rather aggressively to include anything loaded semi-automatically. It doesn't seem fair to me that the definition of the thing you're banning can change with each executive. I'm with you that there is absolutely no point in owning a military weapon, but I also don't see the point of owning a car with 870HP that can go 250mph (oh yeah, I don't know shit about cars either). I guess my point is that I don't think it is reasonable to start drawing arbitrary distinctions on what people can and can't have (see prohibition of weed vs. alcohol). Next thing you know they'll try to start banning the size of sodas I can drink. (What's that?) I also realize my free market solution to gun control probably won't go over well but hey, at least I'm consistent!!


I like your car analogy - I use it myself.
certain cars are street legal. certain cars are not. arbitrary decision? probably. reasonable? yes.
even street cars are regulated for safety. again, no one would argue those.

Sure, but under certain controlled circumstances people who have the required amount of training can go through proper channels to get licensed for these cars and register them and use them. Should a former convict be allowed to walk around with an AK47? No, and I think even the most ardent NRA supporter (which again, I am not) would concede there should be some restrictions. But when you start enforcing a blanket ban on arbitrary definitions, it seems like foolish regulation to me. YMMV

This entire debate (if you can call it that) has hinged on counterfactuals and hypotheticals and the occasional "I remember this story a couple yrs ago..." with very little facts. That makes sense, when you are dealing with such a hot button issue it usually is, to borrow Pie Guy's phrasing, emotional rather than rational. But I still haven't seen anyone admit that while they may not agree with VDB's point of view, they recognize the difference in the moral judgment he is making and that he is completely justified in making it. And if you want to say well no, he is wrong in his beliefs, than I would suggest you are no better than a pro-lifer who condemns support of abortion rights as morally reprehensible.

But back to those pesky facts I just mentioned, here's another point I found interesting: according to Gallup, 1-in-3 Americans now owns a gun. Let's suppose every firearm homocide in 2009 (11,500 as I mentioned earlier) was at the hand of a distinct registered and law abiding gun owner (although that assumption might be just a tad conservative). Well that means there are 99,988,500 other legal gun owners who haven't strapped on their guns with the intention of killing another person. Well fuck, that doesn't fit the narrative very well; let's imagine the 11,500 murders were at the hands of people with concealed carry permits; you know, those gun toting dickbags who start threatening people for taking too long in the concession line at the movies. As of 2010, there were 6 million concealed carry permits. That means 99.8% of those violence obsessed, paranoid vigilantes didn't kill anybody? What kind of pussy ass vigilante shit is that?!?!?!

C'mon. Let's get serious for a second. If you hate guns, that's great. If you think anyone who chooses to carry a gun is a radical lunatic, good for you. If you want to selectively adhere to the Constitution, ok I guess. That's your prerogative. But don't sit here and act like anyone is worse off because they don't abide by your finely tuned moral code. That really defeats the point of this debate, IMO.

Finally,

Quote from: rowjimmy on July 21, 2012, 01:32:04 PM
Last word from me: Killing is not a right. It is always a wrong. 

I agree with this, and the fact is, so do the overwhelming amount of legal gun owners.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

PIE-GUY

Quote from: runawayjimbo on July 21, 2012, 03:24:44 PM

This entire debate (if you can call it that) has hinged on counterfactuals and hypotheticals and the occasional "I remember this story a couple yrs ago..." with very little facts. That makes sense, when you are dealing with such a hot button issue it usually is, to borrow Pie Guy's phrasing, emotional rather than rational. But I still haven't seen anyone admit that while they may not agree with VDB's point of view, they recognize the difference in the moral judgment he is making and that he is completely justified in making it. And if you want to say well no, he is wrong in his beliefs, than I would suggest you are no better than a pro-lifer who condemns support of abortion rights as morally reprehensible.



I actually was going to say something along these lines. Just like the abortion debate, or the Boy Scouts debate, there is the law and then there is the moral decision. I happen to think abortion falls into a moral grey area and fundamentally believe the law is right to protect it as a woman's right to choose. I think the BSA are morally reprehensible in their decision to discriminate, but the law is right in allowing the to do so. I think carrying a gun for self defense is morally reprehensible, but, again, the law is right on this one, too. I will argue for almost any regulation, but. Don't think we should nor will we outlaw guns in this country. Never.
I've been coming to where I am from the get go
Find that I can groove with the beat when I let go
So put your worries on hold
Get up and groove with the rhythm in your soul

birdman

Sorry pie but the BSA receive federal funding. They should not be allowed to discriminate.
That is all.
Paug FTMFW!

PIE-GUY

Quote from: birdman on July 21, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
Sorry pie but the BSA receive federal funding. They should not be allowed to discriminate.
That is all.

They should not receive federal funding.
I've been coming to where I am from the get go
Find that I can groove with the beat when I let go
So put your worries on hold
Get up and groove with the rhythm in your soul

phil

I can't believe no one has mentioned this, but I think the most important reason to ever own a gun is for blasting zombies.
Quote from: guyforget on November 15, 2010, 11:10:47 PMsure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

Hicks

Um yeah, if you strap on a gun every time you see a movie I honestly question your sanity.  At the very least you don't live in the same world that I do, where such a thought never even has entered my mind.  This tragedy certainly doesn't encourage me to think that I need to start carrying either.  I don't carry an RPG launcher in my car just in case someone tries to sideswipe or rear end me. 

Society has to be built on some basic level of trust, without it we are just a bunch of fucking animals like that piece of shit who shot those people, and I for one refuse to sink to that level.   
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

phil

Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)
Quote from: guyforget on November 15, 2010, 11:10:47 PMsure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

barnesy305

Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

mbw

Quote from: barnesy305 on July 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

none of you guys will have to worry about breaking that law.


phil

Quote from: barnesy305 on July 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

How the fuck am I supposed to fight off zombies with a blade only half the size of my junk?!
Quote from: guyforget on November 15, 2010, 11:10:47 PMsure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

kellerb

Quote from: barnesy305 on July 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

However, you ARE allowed to use them on close blood relatives.

mbw

Quote from: kellerb on July 21, 2012, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: barnesy305 on July 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

However, you ARE allowed to use them on close blood relatives.

hey-oooooooooooooo!

barnesy305

Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on July 21, 2012, 07:19:14 PM
Quote from: kellerb on July 21, 2012, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: barnesy305 on July 21, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote from: phil on July 21, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
Did they ever outlaw swords, or did people just stop carrying them? Because if they haven't been outlawed I might go trade my guns for a big ass claymore to wear on my hip. I feel like that would deter anyone who might attack me (cause nobody wants to attack the nutbar who carries a sword around)

Most blades are regulated by length, in Virginia I believe it is 6 inches. Bring on the jokes...

However, you ARE allowed to use them on close blood relatives.

hey-oooooooooooooo!

Boom. Roasted.