2016 Presidential General Election

[Hicks]

It's pretty simple, a vote for Trump is a vote to protect and continue the sequestration of wealth and power by white males. 

Even Trump's slogan of "Make America Great Again" suggests that if we could just rewind the wheels of progress, rid ourselves of all these illegal immigrants, squash the uppity feminists, deport the Muslims, put the blacks back in their place, stop pandering to sexual deviants and get back to the time of unquestioned white male authority, we will be better off as a country.  You know, the way things "used to be", wink, wink. 

[cactusfan]

This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

But Obama never said anything hateful or derogatory. In terms of how he presented himself and his campaign, there was no hate or violence. The things people hated and feared about Obama were things said by OTHER PEOPLE about him. And they believed it. And they still do.

The reason people are so hurt and saddened by Trump winning is not based on what some "liberal" news media is telling us he'll REALLY do and what he's REALLY like. It's based entirely on who he is, his own words, everything he's said he'd do, everyone he's said he hates.

Trump is a vile human being. It's that simple. If you choose to ignore that and say, well, the government needs to be shaken up, that's your right, but you're supporting a vile human being. Whatever the reasons people had for voting for Trump (and more on that below in the article I'm linking to), none were policy-based.

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

But we know what kind of vile shit he's said. And we know kind of vile people he's surrounding himself with. And we can see the kind of vile supporters who've taken his words to mean freedom for them to openly hate and oppress. So there is reason to be alarmed.

A vote for Trump is, whether meant or not, a vote supporting an evidently horrible human being. He's not said a thing, not in his entire life, to cast any doubt on who he is.

I loathed the governments of Bush 2, Bush 1, and Reagan. But I don't doubt for a minute any of them thought anything other than that they were doing what was best for the country, however misguided.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

Some people voted for him because of that, and only that: he's not the usual politician. But he's also a vile human being. There is not a single thing about him to admire. He's the very worst this country has to offer, strictly as a human being. To vote for him is to support him, and who he is.

As to how he'll govern? No one knows. Literally, no one. But based on what he's said, and who he's surrounding himself with, there is much reason to be scared.

This is a smart if flippant piece on why many people voted for him:

www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

[DoW]

I'm quitting while behind.  but I still feel strongly about my point.

thanks to everyone for keeping it civil even if you disagree with me.
sorry for calling you ignorant mbw.

[emay]

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!

sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.

[DoW]

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!

sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.

you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

[emay]

Here's the image.

[emay]

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!

sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.

you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

Ah true. Thought un educated was in there. But yeah you can't really have a stat for a persons racism beliefs.
I'll draw out, just thought that was an interesting fact. So you're right not everyone was a racist, just most were dumbasses.

[DoW]

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!

sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.

you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

Ah true. Thought un educated was in there. But yeah you can't really have a stat for a persons racism beliefs.
I'll draw out, just thought that was an interesting fact. So you're right not everyone was a racist, just most were dumbasses.

yeah.  we were just making different points.
we cool too

[VA $l!m]

This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

But Obama never said anything hateful or derogatory. In terms of how he presented himself and his campaign, there was no hate or violence. The things people hated and feared about Obama were things said by OTHER PEOPLE about him. And they believed it. And they still do.

The reason people are so hurt and saddened by Trump winning is not based on what some "liberal" news media is telling us he'll REALLY do and what he's REALLY like. It's based entirely on who he is, his own words, everything he's said he'd do, everyone he's said he hates.

Trump is a vile human being. It's that simple. If you choose to ignore that and say, well, the government needs to be shaken up, that's your right, but you're supporting a vile human being. Whatever the reasons people had for voting for Trump (and more on that below in the article I'm linking to), none were policy-based.

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

But we know what kind of vile shit he's said. And we know kind of vile people he's surrounding himself with. And we can see the kind of vile supporters who've taken his words to mean freedom for them to openly hate and oppress. So there is reason to be alarmed.

A vote for Trump is, whether meant or not, a vote supporting an evidently horrible human being. He's not said a thing, not in his entire life, to cast any doubt on who he is.

I loathed the governments of Bush 2, Bush 1, and Reagan. But I don't doubt for a minute any of them thought anything other than that they were doing what was best for the country, however misguided.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

Some people voted for him because of that, and only that: he's not the usual politician. But he's also a vile human being. There is not a single thing about him to admire. He's the very worst this country has to offer, strictly as a human being. To vote for him is to support him, and who he is.

As to how he'll govern? No one knows. Literally, no one. But based on what he's said, and who he's surrounding himself with, there is much reason to be scared.

This is a smart if flippant piece on why many people voted for him:

www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

well said.
and TBH would things have been much better if it was Ted Cruz or  Ben Carson getting elected? lol.
Either way decades of social progress and forward thinking economic globalism which benefits everyone just went down the shitter while a few Koch brothers get richer speeding up the destruction of  the enviroment one barrel of oil at a time.

I cant wait to see how the hell Fox news goes on now that theyve won.
im assuming theyll just have to start spewing nationalist hate at other countries since theyve completely brainwashed the majority of this one.

bottom line is i think its safe to say that most of us over 40 wont outlive the negative consequences of this election... especially the supreme court and everything they will destroy.

[PIE-GUY]

Trying to be optimistic. Here's what I think:

"Life goes on and people make do with what they have, and they fall in love and get drunk and sing and dance."
- David Byrne

Final thoughts at the end of a long day:

It is painful for progressives like me to think about the repercussions of this election that will inevitably ripple out from the center and affect our lives and the lives of millions...

20 million people with their health insurance at risk. Millions of immigrants worried about deportation, violence, discrimination. Millions in poverty fearing the end of welfare programs. Millions affected by escalating weather events caused by climate change. And on and on...

These are important issues and progressives will continue to fight for them.

That said, I am reminded of the quote above which always gives me hope. The quote is from a journal entry on David Byrne's old blog. Unfortunately, the original blog post is no longer online, but it was about one of his trips to South America. He was musing on the lives of ordinary citizens living under authoritarian regimes. No matter the oppression felt, the squalor imposed, the hardships endured, people continue to live. They create happiness for themselves.

"Life goes on and people make do with what they have, and they fall in love and get drunk and sing and dance."

It's exactly what Bob Marley says in Redemption Song:

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds. Have no fear for atomic energy, cuz none of them can stop the time."

We cannot live in fear. Life will go on and we will find happiness. Look within. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Love one another.

Sing and dance and celebrate life.

I love you all.

[emay]

H came here to post this.
http://www.snopes.com/klan-marches-celebrate-trump-victory/

Since we are on the topic of racists supporting trump. They confirmed it wasn't really the kkk but just conservative extremists.  But the kkk rep does kangfirm their celebration march will be on  12/3

[ytowndan]

Thanks for that, Dave.  It helped lift my spirits a bit. 

[VDB]

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!

sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.

you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

I dunno, I'd venture so far as to say that education level and open-mindedness may well correlate. Exposure to different ideas, people, cultures and environments can all be antidotes to ignorance. Stands to reason, anyhow.

[runawayjimbo]

I'm in Bermuda for work right now so I missed all this and I'm not gonna try to unpack it all but I will say that I agree pretty much word for word with bvaz. A couple things stand out to me tho:

At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer.

Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

...

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

It's exactly comparable to how people felt when Obama won (twice). The (very real) anger/fear/sadness/frustration that you are feeling right now is how people who opposed Obama felt upon his electoral victories. But by (effectively) saying, "we are opposing Trump for the right reasons while those opposed to Obama only did so because they were duped by Fox News," you are propagating the exact same dismissive, belittling, condescending argument that so enabled those who voted for Trump.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[VDB]

Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

The Obama drone program has been quite active during his tenure, even though drone strikes are known to sometimes kill innocent civilians. One could (pretty easily, if you ask me) make a moral case against the use of drones. And yet we wouldn't accuse anyone who supports Obama to (necessarily) support the killing of innocents.

In other words, shit's complicated.