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2016 Presidential General Election

Started by VDB, September 26, 2016, 05:40:53 PM

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Hicks

Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

VDB

It seems fairly obvious to me that higher turnout favors Democrats in general, and the GOP's own efforts on "eliminating voter fraud" seem to confirm this. For now, they've been able to artificially inflate their successes through gerrymandering and voter suppression because the votes otherwise break down just close enough to parity to make this work.

But it's an extremely short-sighted strategy. Eventually, the demographic shifts will overwhelm them and Democrat-leaning voter bases will be able to trump GOP blocs even with much lower turnout numbers. And mind you, this is the party whose presidential candidate's share of the Latino vote doubled from 1996 to 2004. George W. spoke Spanish and talked about paths to citizenship before the angry fringe of his base (animated in part through his and Rove's own doing via gay marriage and issues like that) put the entire party in their place on that one. Won't be long before Texas flips to blue, and it may spread out from there.

At least, that's my quasi-informed prediction.
Is this still Wombat?

sunrisevt

Quote from: Eleanor MarsailI love you, daddy. Actually, I love all the people. Even the ones who I don't know their name.

mattstick

#198
Thanks America

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

QuoteEbell, who was dubbed an "elegant nerd" and a "policy wonk" by Vanity Fair, is known for his prolific writings that question what he calls climate change "alarmism." He appears frequently in the media and before Congress. He's also chairman of the Cooler Heads Coalition, a group of nonprofits that "question global warming alarmism and oppose energy-rationing policies."

QuoteEbell's views appear to square with Trump's when it comes to EPA's agenda. Trump has called global warming "bullshit" and he has said he would "cancel" the Paris global warming accord and roll back President Obama's executive actions on climate change (ClimateWire, May 27).

But yeah, it was totally more important that Hillary didn't get into the White House. FFS.

mattstick


"Well Hillary had a private email server, maybe I just won't vote..."

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

runawayjimbo

Strap in, kids...

Quote from: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Quote from: cactusfan on November 09, 2016, 09:48:46 PM
Not sure why you're selectively reading what I wrote.

I'm not saying anyone FEELS any different, my entire point is to explain how the REASONS ARE DIFFERENT. People felt this anger at Obama based on what THEY HAD BEEN TOLD HE WAS. Do you not understand that? Nothing to do with what he SAID, or what his verbally expressed POLICIES were to be, but because of how he'd been represented.

Trump has created the reaction he has for exactly the opposite reason. It is based ENTIRELY ON WHAT HE HAS SAID AND DONE. Do you seriously not understand that? Do you live in some strange cocoon where what people say is ignored? That candidates simply represent party platforms and are otherwise indistinguishable?

Trump has PROVEN all by himself the kind of person he is. Forget about policies--of which he has none--forget about the fact that you don't like Hillary because her voice makes your balls shrink or whatever. Did she threaten to silence journalists, to jail her opponent, do deport millions, to spy on specific minorities? Did she create dog-whistle attack ads against african american and jews? Did she stay up all night tweeting violent insane garbage about women too fat and ugly to fuck?

The fear people are feeling at his election has nothing to do with his being a republican--which he barely is anyway--it's WHO HE IS. And WHO HE IS is the man he, all by himself, has shown himself to be.

Hatred at Obama was not based on WHO HE IS or what he proposed to do. It was--and is--based on the FALSE PERCEPTION that he he is a secret muslim, foreign born, socialist, bent on destroying america, etc. etc. etc.

I don't know how or why you've come to this belief that people opposed only could have Obama because of "WHAT THEY HAD BEEN TOLD HE WAS," but I gotta say, I think it's grossly misguided. I just can't wrap my head around this notion that the only reason people could have possibly rejected Obama was because they feared he was a Muslim or a closet socialist or because they just straight up don't like brown people. It couldn't be the fact that they held deeply personal and vastly different views on abortion, guns, religious freedom or marriage. No, no, no, it must have been that Fox News duped those dumbfuck, backassward racists who were just looking for a reason to hate the first black president. It must suck to have such vitriolic disdain for the 60M people who voted against him in 2 elections.

The abject dismissal to even begin to understand the reasons why people disagree with them is a significant problem on the left right now IMO. Hillary won the population centers where the most wealth and power is concentrated, and lost literally everywhere else. You don't see that as a problem? In WI, more than 60% of voters viewed Trump unfavorably and yet he STILL won 20% of those people. Don't you think that that represents a more systemic and fundamental belief than just "Trump voters are racist?" When Obama and other Dems mocked Trump's slogan, saying "America is already great," can you really not see what a giant middle finger that is for those people in most of the country that have been passed over in terms of wealth and comfort that people on the coasts take for granted? Since the 2010 "Tea Party wave," Republican voters have been rejecting big gov't, banks, status quo. This is not an exclusively racist/sexist bigotry brought on by hatred for Obama or stoked by Trump. There are far deeper values at work here.

I am sympathetic to the view that decreased turnout hurt Hillary, but I find it hard to believe that this is exclusively a function of GOP efforts to systematically squash likely-D voters. 69M people voted for Obama in 2008; 66M voted for him in 2012. 60M voted for her this time. That kind of fallout isn't a result of voter ID laws or a lack of polling places. At some point, you have to look at it and say maybe there was a problem with the candidate.

Quote from: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mattstick

Quote from: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM
Strap in, kids...

Quote from: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Don't make me go to his website and find his Muslim ban statement, which is back BTW - he's really trying to be President for all Americans.

What are you even doing?  Yes, Hillary flawed candidate, sure people upset with whatever for whatever last 8 years... look who was elected instead - it is LITERALLY INDEFENSIBLE, except here you are trying to nitpick people...




Hicks

The only question now is will it take a couple years for the global economy to meltdown from mismanagement and looting, or can we look forward to it in 2017?
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

VA $l!m

#203
look, this idea that things werent working the last 8 years and needed to be shook up would make sense except the only reason things couldnt work the last 8 years is b/c the Republicans cock blocked everything Obama's administration wanted to do from day 1. There was zero middle ground, zero compromise, zero bipartisanship.
Just look at Obamacare- the ACA wasnt even close to what the Dems would have implemented if they could have done it their way. It is in fact the exact system the REpublicans came up with on their own. IT was their fucked up take to appease the majority of Americans that voted for Obama.
I mean for Christ's sake i never even got to see Obamacare in my state b/c of the fucking REpublicans blocking my access to it by refusing to expand medicade.
If they repeal and replace it i might actually get health care for the 1st time now, how fucked up is that?

One thing that struck me the most about the disconnect with both parties and the state of elctorate aspect was brought up by David Brooks.
...and to me this is the key reeason Trump supporters in actuality screwed themselves and the entire country.
Both parites are actually now flip flopped demographically when it comes to their traditional economic beliefs.
You have poor white people voting for the party of the economic elte, and higher educated wealthier people voting for the party that always backed the poor.
I cant wait for all these indigent Rednecks to get back to the hills of west Virginia and realize they just lost every social program that was sustaining their existence.

For awhile now there has been a part of me that just wanted the Republicans to get their way and have complete control in Washington. Just to see them fail.
At this point i'm closer to being a Communist/ anarchist then a Democrat or even Socialist.
Sadly we arent going to just be able to sit through four years with our fingers crossed and hoep to come out the other side.
the shift in the social political outlook of the country this year is the turning of the tide that has been headed this way for decades.
The ideas coming from the right that will now be tested will most likely blow our economy back to the stone age.

Do you really think destroying trade deals and insulating ourselves we are going to change the balance and momentum of the global economy?
Are we going to start manufacturing the entirity of all products that currently come from China?
And for crying out loud the environment was prettty much already on a doomsday clock, but now? lol, i bet i see FLorida go under the sea before i die.
Ignoring facts and futures is going to do exactly what the REpublicans always wanted- make a shit ton of shirt term money for a handful of evil men.

Obama's policies domestic, economic, foreign were exactly what the country needed IMO Were any of them actually unfettered or censored? gimme a break.
Just watch what happens in Syria and the Middle East. The careful calculation and modulating controlled policy is the only thing that has kept that shit from starting WW3, and you best believe thats about to pop off as soon these idiots get in office.
-I'm still walkin', so i'm sure that I can dance-

ytowndan

Quote from: nab on July 27, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
You never drink alone when you have something good to listen to.

antelope19

Quote from: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM

Quote from: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.
Quote
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment

mbw

Quote from: antelope19 on November 10, 2016, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM

Quote from: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.

Some of our finest years in history.

westcider

I live in a blue state and I hate politics, thereforee I avoid them as much as I possibly can.  so let that inform what I am saying.  but I know a few smart people who are really into politics and are Obama supporters.  these folks dug into the Hillary emails and came out not just hating Hillary, but thinking that she and the Clinton Foundation are literally evil, and that John Podesta is... well I don't even want to say.

Trump said a bunch of horrible stuff, there is no denying that.  but I think a lot of people assume that we are only seeing the public face of our politicians, and behind closed doors they might be saying equally horrible stuff.  apparently wikileaks proved to my friends that Hillary was.

runawayjimbo

Quote from: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 05:01:00 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM
Strap in, kids...

Quote from: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Don't make me go to his website and find his Muslim ban statement, which is back BTW - he's really trying to be President for all Americans.

What are you even doing?  Yes, Hillary flawed candidate, sure people upset with whatever for whatever last 8 years... look who was elected instead - it is LITERALLY INDEFENSIBLE, except here you are trying to nitpick people...

I agree completely, banning people from coming into the country based on nothing but religion is indefensible. But that's not what you - or many in the media - said he was proposing. You took the additional step of saying he wants to ban all Muslims. Others (not here) have used the term "internment camps." Hyperbolic statements like these demean the very real reasons to oppose his highly charged and hateful statements.

I understand why Muslims feel scared by the prospects of a Trump presidency: it's because there was no voice to counter the widespread mainstream consensus that Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims or send them back to their countries. You call that nitpicking, but it's not. It's pushing back against the false narrative that the next POTUS will actively work to remove every man, woman, and child in this country who practice Islam.

I can't tell you how much I hate having to defend this assclown (that's not what I think I'm doing but I'm sure most would disagree). But when you distort the actual facts of the debate with such emotional and (IMO) irrational fervor, well, it's a bit too much for me. See something, say something and whatnot.

I did lol at the cyberbullying comment fwiw.

Quote from: ytowndan on November 10, 2016, 06:00:26 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.

Dodd-Frank hasn't been very effective IMO at getting to the root cause of the problems that contributed to the financial crisis. Like most wide sweeping regulation, that doesn't mean all components are bad, but, on balance, I think it's been a net drag. However, Trump has also suggested bringing back Glass-Steagall. Now, I don't personally believe G-S caused the crisis (I'm in the minority in that view, even with some very smart banking regulation people I know/follow), but if you could trade D-F for G-S, would you?

Quote from: antelope19 on November 10, 2016, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM

Quote from: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.

I think the 1928 thing (which I heard half asleep the other night too) was total GOP control, including state legislatures and governorships. Which is just another example of why this election was about more than Trump and his (unknown number of) racist supporters. Literally no one I know (other than the most fervent campaign sycophants) thought that could happen. There is something more afoot here.

Quote from: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 05:20:25 PM
The only question now is will it take a couple years for the global economy to meltdown from mismanagement and looting, or can we look forward to it in 2017?

Obvious disclaimers, but the Dow closed at a record today. The stock market is not the economy and I have been extremely reluctant to use equities as an indicator of anything except central bank largesse for a long time, but still, that is a notable and highly unexpected development.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mbw

You're right, he didnt say he would ban all muslims, just any new ones and of course to get all current muslim americans to register as such.

Honest mistake by mattstick im sure.  Trump wouldnt say something that crazy.   :roll: