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Where's the stage? Spurious Generalities => Politiw00kchat => Topic started by: VDB on September 26, 2016, 05:40:53 PM

Title: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on September 26, 2016, 05:40:53 PM
Tonight! Round 1!

Really looking forward to this. We'll probably be playing drinking bingo and definitely will be eating Mexican food.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: August on September 26, 2016, 05:53:21 PM
This is 10 minutes from my house.
Fucking madhouse round here!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on September 26, 2016, 09:16:07 PM
Can't. Even.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Bobafett on September 26, 2016, 09:16:21 PM
Y'all ready for this bull-ish?

Spades!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on September 26, 2016, 09:20:21 PM
Well, he hasn't thrown his feces yet, so ...  expectations exceeded.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on September 26, 2016, 09:21:22 PM
oh man.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: danje on September 26, 2016, 09:28:34 PM
This is working out great for Clinton.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on September 26, 2016, 09:30:48 PM
Well, that took about ten minutes before he started acting like a petulant child. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on September 26, 2016, 09:36:25 PM
this is unbelievable.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on September 26, 2016, 10:24:22 PM
Freakin' incredible.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on September 26, 2016, 10:37:12 PM
Brb. Gotta hurl.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on September 26, 2016, 10:46:52 PM
Pretty sure I just watched a toddler argue with a robot. woah.  :smoke:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on September 26, 2016, 10:50:47 PM
Brb. Gotta hurl.

Yeah, I feel pretty gross.  Gotta go take a shower.

Pretty sure I just watched a toddler argue with a robot. woah.  :smoke:

Spot on.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on September 26, 2016, 11:16:43 PM
I've never heard one man say so much about absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: JPhishman on September 26, 2016, 11:20:15 PM
The national embarassment continues....


:pukes:

Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on September 26, 2016, 11:32:07 PM
43 more days. Come on, you can do this. Just 43 more days...
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on September 26, 2016, 11:34:45 PM
Pretty sure I just watched a toddler argue with a robot. woah.  :smoke:
, i dont know many facist racist psycopath toddlers
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on September 26, 2016, 11:56:45 PM
I've never heard one man say so much about absolutely nothing.

His top priority as a speaker is dominating the conversation and preventing anyone from getting a word in edgewise, no matter how incoherent he has to become in the process.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mopper_smurf on September 27, 2016, 12:27:09 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14484974_10154588709018188_1466922703720279112_n.jpg?oh=6d09d7d76c2b0062d1f2568bfaa8d1f1&oe=587AA241)

Quote
That's cat language for "what the fuck"

https://www.facebook.com/mikehyphengordon/photos/a.10150112600983188.291769.11215333187/10154588709018188/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on September 27, 2016, 02:49:40 AM
i just imagined your giant cat eating trumps tiny  head
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on September 27, 2016, 09:39:32 AM
Well, that took about ten minutes before he started acting like a petulant child.

WRONG
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on September 27, 2016, 11:07:55 AM
No wonder Trump has the stamina for prez...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BJjUv_TD2E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BJjUv_TD2E)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on September 27, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14484974_10154588709018188_1466922703720279112_n.jpg?oh=6d09d7d76c2b0062d1f2568bfaa8d1f1&oe=587AA241)

Quote
That's cat language for "what the fuck"

https://www.facebook.com/mikehyphengordon/photos/a.10150112600983188.291769.11215333187/10154588709018188/?type=3&theater

https://www.viralviralvideos.com/2016/08/14/cat-runs-from-donald-trump-on-tv/
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on September 27, 2016, 12:18:03 PM
http://sufeysientey.tumblr.com/post/151006927225/gucci-flipflops-gang-shit-only
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on September 27, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
http://sufeysientey.tumblr.com/post/151006927225/gucci-flipflops-gang-shit-only

That is so awesome.  :clap:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on September 27, 2016, 05:59:10 PM
http://sufeysientey.tumblr.com/post/151006927225/gucci-flipflops-gang-shit-only

That is so awesome.  :clap:

 :hereitisyousentimentalbastard
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on October 07, 2016, 06:50:37 PM
"Just grab em by the pussy."   :hereitisyousentimentalbastard

https://youtu.be/FuHPRYkMEwI
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Superfreakie on October 08, 2016, 08:52:00 AM
This is the best election Jerry! The BEST!!!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on October 08, 2016, 09:38:56 AM
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/61147825.jpg)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on October 08, 2016, 09:53:25 AM
https://youtu.be/hFpFDyKeqyA
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on October 08, 2016, 04:54:08 PM
I briefly thought to myself last night that we are finally here.  Donald Trump has finally done something so horrible that he will voluntarily quit the race.  That thought lasted a whole two minutes.  Of course he won't quit.  This asshole has no limit to how terrible he can be.

If the Republicans don't get their shit together and admit that it's time to take Donald for a walk in the woods, they're going to allow our politics to be changed for good.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on October 09, 2016, 01:03:31 PM
Nothing Trump says or does shocks me anymore.
And that's the problem.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on October 09, 2016, 09:22:05 PM
Omg this debate is heated.

Shots fucking fired.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on October 09, 2016, 09:24:23 PM
This really is a disgrace. We owe the entire world an apology.


Except Canada. Fuck them, eh?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on October 09, 2016, 11:24:16 PM
He really grabbed her by the pussy tonight.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on October 10, 2016, 08:12:50 PM
I just spent 2 hours in the #kenbone twitterverse
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mopper_smurf on October 11, 2016, 07:31:20 AM
On Dutch TV last night ...

http://www.luckytv.nl/time-of-my-life/

Site has trouble handling the traffic. Here ti is too:

https://youtu.be/7saexGkKDBw
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on October 11, 2016, 08:36:31 AM
Brilliant.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on October 17, 2016, 08:10:16 PM
(http://www.goaskyourdadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/printelect-i-voted-today1.gif)

I'm glad to have gotten that out of the way. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on October 17, 2016, 08:25:09 PM
I plan on walking over and doing it on my lunch break Thursday. The City-County Building is only two blocks from my office. Gotta wait until Thursday though because the city is overrun with the Future Farmers of America right now.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on October 18, 2016, 12:08:36 AM
so i actually have an excuse not to watch the last debate cause Batlefield comes out today.,, but i still feel like drawn to the choas somehow... its calling me.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on October 19, 2016, 10:41:38 AM
Looking forward to tonight. I think Hillary's gonna play it safe, but Trump has little excuse not to just let it fly.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 06, 2016, 06:21:06 PM
Not gonna lie.  I'm starting to get really nervous.   :|
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 06, 2016, 06:59:44 PM
Winter is coming
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on November 06, 2016, 07:49:51 PM
Winter is coming

You know nothing....
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: pcr3 on November 06, 2016, 10:56:56 PM
Not gonna lie.  I'm starting to get really nervous.   :|

Same. Like really, really nervous. But at least we're likely to legalize  :smoke: her in MA.

So, I have that going for me...
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 07, 2016, 05:50:11 AM
Not gonna lie.  I'm starting to get really nervous.   :|

Same. Like really, really nervous. But at least we're likely to legalize  :smoke: her in MA.

So, I have that going for me...

But here in Indy no outcome will be good. Trump wins...we're all screwed. Hillary wins... All these inbred redneck pieces of shit here are going to be hell to live with for the next four years.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: susep on November 07, 2016, 08:14:18 AM
Not gonna lie.  I'm starting to get really nervous.   :|

Same. Like really, really nervous. But at least we're likely to legalize  :smoke: her in MA.ME. 

So, I have that going for me...

ditto.  early polls suggest that ME will legalize.  Hell yeah!  :smoke: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 07, 2016, 12:47:12 PM
How ironic...

https://news.vice.com/story/trump-supporters-keep-committing-voter-fraud?utm_source=vicenewsfb
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 07, 2016, 05:56:44 PM
Not gonna lie.  I'm starting to get really nervous.   :|

Same. Like really, really nervous. But at least we're likely to legalize  :smoke: her in MA.

So, I have that going for me...

But here in Indy America no outcome will be good. Trump wins...we're all screwed. Hillary wins... All these inbred redneck pieces of shit here are going to be hell to live with for the next four years.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: pcr3 on November 08, 2016, 12:01:08 AM
Well, the day is here. Don't forget to vote.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 06:04:40 AM
Are your employers legally obligated to give you time off work to vote? Or did Republicans kill that to suppress turn out?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 08, 2016, 07:19:30 AM
Are your employers legally obligated to give you time off work to vote? Or did Republicans kill that to suppress turn out?

I'm not sure.. I can attest for mine:

you can roll in late and work your 8 or come in early to leave early.... all they want is us to put in 8 hours.
I think we can even leave during lunch time if that seems to be a better option.

I got up early. voted in my old neighborhood since I forgot to switch it when we moved... that way my work day doesn't change.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 08, 2016, 07:24:44 AM
Little of the ol' in and out this morning with the poll.
Lined up at 5:45, 26 people ahead of me. Doors opened at 6, I was in my truck at 6:06.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mehead on November 08, 2016, 08:18:09 AM
Little of the ol' in and out this morning with the poll.
Lined up at 5:45, 26 people ahead of me. Doors opened at 6, I was in my truck at 6:06.

good work
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 08, 2016, 08:58:48 AM
In Texas, at least, early voting is the best. The early voting locations generally have short lines and dozens of voting machines. Local polling on election days can be brutal... even in off years and primaries... I waited almost an hour to vote for Bernie in the Texas Primary.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Caravan2001 on November 08, 2016, 08:59:01 AM
Well, you all know where I stand....
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 08, 2016, 08:59:36 AM
Long line at about 6:30.  Took about half hour.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 08, 2016, 09:29:38 AM
Yeah, I got up early trying to be there right when the polls opened at 6, but was a little slow moving with the coffee, so didn't get there til about 10 after, but there was already a pretty long line by that point, so I said fuck it and went back to bed.












just kidding, it was about an hour wait. Kind of surprised because it's the same place I've always been to, and I'd never had to wait more than a few minutes.

I was going back and forth on this, but do you think we'll have a record low turnout because most people are fed up with both candidates and don't want to vote for either (which is what I was thinking before this morning and seeing the line)...
or...
do you think we'll have a record high turnout because everyone is so driven to keep the "other" person out?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: GBL on November 08, 2016, 09:35:29 AM
Pretty busy at my spot at about 7:30

New place this year though, so was kind of a cluster
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 08, 2016, 09:47:33 AM
In Texas, at least, early voting is the best. The early voting locations generally have short lines and dozens of voting machines. Local polling on election days can be brutal... even in off years and primaries... I waited almost an hour to vote for Bernie in the Texas Primary.
this is the first year we had early voting, which I did.  my town had 2 nights with hours until 9 pm and Saturday and sunday hours.
I've never had to wait for longer than a half hour, but it was nice to walk in and out quickly.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: slslbs on November 08, 2016, 09:59:05 AM
Got in late last night so went to work late.  Got to the polling place around 8:30, right in.
i'm sure early voting helped too
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on November 08, 2016, 10:54:54 AM
Voted yesterday afternoon at my little town hall. Today the gymnasium upstairs will be the usual (very civilized) Election Day zoo.

My old man voted like 3 weeks ago. Early voting's the best.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 08, 2016, 11:16:45 AM
https://www.facebook.com/viralworldUSA/videos/1690657367917371/ (https://www.facebook.com/viralworldUSA/videos/1690657367917371/)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 08, 2016, 11:29:59 AM
It blows my mind that in the year 2016 the majority of our citizens have to go wait in line at a polling location to vote. 

I filled my ballot out at home last night and then dropped it off in a collection box this morning after taking my daughter to school. 

Oregon ftw. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: slslbs on November 08, 2016, 01:01:47 PM
This election isn't going to go away quietly.
By biggest fear, other than a Trump victory (possible but unlikely) is that he won't accept the results and cause all kinds of problems that will make 2000 look like childs play.
Quote
Trump files Nevada voting lawsuit
In a sign that the legal team for the Trump campaign is aggressively laying the groundwork for potential legal challenges -- big and small -- lawyers have gone to state court in Nevada in an early vote dispute.

In legal briefs filed last night, Trump lawyers are asking for relief in case “the election of presidential electors from the State of Nevada is contested.”

They are suing Joe P. Gloria, the Clark County registrar of voters, over a decision they allege he made to keep polling locations open “two hours beyond the designated closing time.” The lawsuit targets polling places in the greater Las Vegas area that have larger minority voting precincts.

Dan Kulin, a spokesperson for the county, told CNN that no early voting stations extended their closing times. They did, however, process voters who were in line at closing time to allow as many people to vote as possible.

Trump lawyers are asking for an order to have the pertinent early vote ballots not to be “co-mingled or interspersed” with other ballots.

“From the polling, it appears that Nevada is so close that the Trump campaign thinks it’s worth challenging any violation in voting protocol. The numbers that came in could represent several thousand people across the four precincts, which could determine who wins the electoral college vote or change the Senate race,” said Robert Lang of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. He said the Trump campaign is “smart to put a marker down for a future challenge, considering what happened in 2000 in Florida. “
November 8, 2016 9:46am
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 08, 2016, 01:07:01 PM
This election isn't going to go away quietly.
By biggest fear, other than a Trump victory (possible but unlikely) is that he won't accept the results and cause all kinds of problems that will make 2000 look like childs play.
Quote
Trump files Nevada voting lawsuit
In a sign that the legal team for the Trump campaign is aggressively laying the groundwork for potential legal challenges -- big and small -- lawyers have gone to state court in Nevada in an early vote dispute.

In legal briefs filed last night, Trump lawyers are asking for relief in case “the election of presidential electors from the State of Nevada is contested.”

They are suing Joe P. Gloria, the Clark County registrar of voters, over a decision they allege he made to keep polling locations open “two hours beyond the designated closing time.” The lawsuit targets polling places in the greater Las Vegas area that have larger minority voting precincts.

Dan Kulin, a spokesperson for the county, told CNN that no early voting stations extended their closing times. They did, however, process voters who were in line at closing time to allow as many people to vote as possible.

Trump lawyers are asking for an order to have the pertinent early vote ballots not to be “co-mingled or interspersed” with other ballots.

“From the polling, it appears that Nevada is so close that the Trump campaign thinks it’s worth challenging any violation in voting protocol. The numbers that came in could represent several thousand people across the four precincts, which could determine who wins the electoral college vote or change the Senate race,” said Robert Lang of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. He said the Trump campaign is “smart to put a marker down for a future challenge, considering what happened in 2000 in Florida. “
November 8, 2016 9:46am
I sort of see the protest as inevitable.  I'm not sure it will be worse than 2000 as I just don't see it getting to the Supreme Court.

I just wish I could hibernate for a few months and wake up when it is all over.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 08, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 08, 2016, 02:29:57 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

democracy is over-rated.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 02:45:45 PM

Trump is going to use Republican $$ to de-legitimize Hillary's win through the courts, and attempt to take advantage of the Supreme Court vacancy.

It's honestly going to be the worst.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 08, 2016, 03:20:23 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

TRUTH.

sucks.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on November 08, 2016, 04:09:22 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

democracy is over-rated.

I'm available for the position of benevolent despot, if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 08, 2016, 05:19:07 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

democracy is over-rated.
werd
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 08, 2016, 05:41:38 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

democracy is over-rated.

I'm available for the position of benevolent despot, if anyone's interested.

Seats taken.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 08, 2016, 06:00:39 PM
http://www.avclub.com/article/donald-trump-says-hes-bigger-jay-z-really-no-bigge-245593 (http://www.avclub.com/article/donald-trump-says-hes-bigger-jay-z-really-no-bigge-245593)

Quote
Donald Trump says he’s bigger than Jay Z, is really no bigger than Phish

Not that Donald Trump has ever held much regard for such unbigly concepts as “facts” and ”video evidence,” but Politifact caught America’s most overripe jack-o’-lantern in an especially egregious—at least to music lovers—prevarication at his closing-night rally in Raleigh, North Carolina last night. Shamelessly walking back yet another of his statements, one day after claiming to object to the “lewd language” in Jay Z’s lyrics, Trump said: “Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them,” before revealing the true nature of his resentment: “I get bigger crowds than they do,” he added. “It’s true. I get far bigger crowds.”

According to data from Billboard, though, this isn’t even remotely true. Jay Z and Beyonce’s 2014 “On The Run” tour drew an average of 45,700 people per date, and Beyonce’s solo “Formation” tour earlier this year drew an average of 45,423 per night. By Trump’s own estimate, three of his biggest rallies, in Oklahoma, Dallas, and Mobile, Alabama, drew an average of 27,000 people. That’s a similar draw to Phish on its most recent tour, according to Politifact. And, it should be noted, people pay to see Phish.

To be entirely fair to Trump, the rallies did draw more than last week’s pro-Clinton Jay Z concert in Cleveland, which drew about 10,000 people.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on November 08, 2016, 06:43:35 PM
The GOP will contest the results if they lose, that is inevitable because they don't believe in democracy.

See also: current supreme court vacancy

democracy is over-rated.

I'm available for the position of benevolent despot, if anyone's interested.

Seats taken.

In that case, batten the hatches and pull up the drawbridge, bitches. Sunrisevt's storming the gates of your cities and setting fire to your croplands. All of you, submit and despair, for your dreams are conquered.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Bobafett on November 08, 2016, 08:34:17 PM
I wrote in al bundy, ted bundy's black-sheep brother whose been excommunicated for bangin his 3rd cousin in the barn, which is completely f'd.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 08, 2016, 09:09:34 PM
I was in and out of my polling site in less than 5 minutes today. I went after work around 4:15.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 09:33:31 PM
Fuck this shit.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 09:41:27 PM
Ok this isn't funny anymore...
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 08, 2016, 09:49:40 PM
(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.217683964.3312/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u4.jpg)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 08, 2016, 10:08:28 PM
Fuck this shit.

Fuckin Florida man!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 10:15:44 PM
Trump + GOP Congress is seriously the scariest thing I've heard in a long time. And that includes Dr Gabel.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 10:37:17 PM
Fuck you Ohio
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: GBL on November 08, 2016, 10:43:35 PM
Actually starting to get worried
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 10:44:06 PM
Fuck you Ohio

It's all your fault, Canada


#TellAmericaItsGreat

http://youtu.be/stGhjokq57U
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 08, 2016, 10:48:23 PM
Any jobs up in Toronto, Matt?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 10:52:06 PM
Canada Immigration website literally crashed tonight.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 10:53:37 PM
Fuck you Ohio

It's all your fault, Canada


#TellAmericaItsGreat

http://youtu.be/stGhjokq57U

I take it back... you guys are fucked.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 08, 2016, 10:54:01 PM
really wish i hadnt told my mother a year ago i had a feeling trump would win.
seriously, all year i've just thought it was fate.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 10:57:33 PM
There goes Florida. Jesus.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: pcr3 on November 08, 2016, 11:07:35 PM
I want to believe the media ratings theory, but I just don't buy it.

WTF is happening?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 11:10:09 PM
WI and MI and the west coast still gets Hillary in there?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Bobafett on November 08, 2016, 11:12:08 PM
It's seeming like doomsday media hype bs.  It's like a good stash buildup, right?  Right?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 11:14:05 PM
WI and MI and the west coast still gets Hillary in there?

Yes, but not looking good there. PA still questionable and NH (only 4 EVs) still in doubt.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 11:18:22 PM
Honestly more worried about Gingrich, Pence, Giuliani and Christie.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 08, 2016, 11:21:50 PM
Tried going to sleep. Couldn't do it. Check the race and FUCK!!!  :frustrated:

Is our country really this racist, xenophobic and stupid?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 11:28:30 PM
Silver lining: CA passes recreational and FL and SD pass recreational. 25% of the country will be able to legally consume canabis. Progress
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 08, 2016, 11:29:03 PM
Worst Couch Tour Ever!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 08, 2016, 11:36:51 PM
Silver lining: CA passes recreational and FL and SD pass recreational. 25% of the country will be able to legally consume canabis. Progress

Pence squashes all of that shit.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 08, 2016, 11:38:17 PM
Silver lining: CA passes recreational and FL and SD pass recreational. 25% of the country will be able to legally consume canabis. Progress

Pence squashes all of that shit.

And he'll do it in some clandestine meeting with a bunch of priests like he did with the anti-LGBT law here in Indy.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 08, 2016, 11:40:56 PM
Silver lining: CA passes recreational and FL and SD pass recreational. 25% of the country will be able to legally consume canabis. Progress

Pence squashes all of that shit.

Seriously... the federal justice department could go out and enforce federal law even in Colorado.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 08, 2016, 11:44:45 PM
Silver lining: CA passes recreational and FL and SD pass recreational. 25% of the country will be able to legally consume canabis. Progress

Pence squashes all of that shit.

I don't know about Pence but I agree AG Christie is not cool.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 08, 2016, 11:46:34 PM
'Bout to throw up.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 08, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
Time for the West Coast to secede from the Union, fuck this shit. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 09, 2016, 12:28:33 AM
This is fucked
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on November 09, 2016, 01:05:21 AM
This is some... media propaganda BS... right?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 09, 2016, 01:19:06 AM
Nevada and Mass join California in legalizing recreation marijuana!!!!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 09, 2016, 01:25:09 AM
On the plus side, an already amazing SNL with Dave Chappelle and Tribe Called Quest just got amazinger.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 09, 2016, 01:39:49 AM

On the plus side, an already amazing SNL with Dave Chappelle and Tribe Called Quest just got amazinger.

Jesus Christ who gives a fucking shit.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 09, 2016, 01:40:38 AM
AP calling PA for Trump
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: cactusfan on November 09, 2016, 01:53:57 AM

Is our country really this racist, xenophobic and stupid?

yes.

this is profoundly fucked.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 09, 2016, 02:04:55 AM
Fuck you, America. 

You just sent a fascist to the White House and gave him an all red congress. 

We should take a moment to say goodbye to the safety of religious and ethnic minorities, social security, medicare, medicaid, the minimum wage, Roe v Wade, what's left of the Voting Rights Act, LGBT rights, the progress we made with the drug war, our modest gains in Wall St. regulation, and what was left of common decency.  And what did we give all this up for?  The mainstreaming of white supremacy and hard-right nativism. 

Seriously.  Fuck you, America. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mopper_smurf on November 09, 2016, 02:19:16 AM

Is our country really this racist, xenophobic and stupid?

yes.

this is profoundly fucked.

The blue states are welkome to join the European Union.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: WhatstheUse? on November 09, 2016, 02:32:09 AM
Holy shit. Is this....
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 02:53:43 AM
mopper, you need a roommate?

I'm in shock.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 09, 2016, 04:00:34 AM

Is our country really this racist, xenophobic and stupid?

yes.

this is profoundly fucked.
ive been saying it for 20+ years.
Fuck you, America. 

You just sent a fascist to the White House and gave him an all red congress. 

We should take a moment to say goodbye to the safety of religious and ethnic minorities, social security, medicare, medicaid, the minimum wage, Roe v Wade, what's left of the Voting Rights Act, LGBT rights, the progress we made with the drug war, our modest gains in Wall St. regulation, and what was left of common decency.  And what did we give all this up for?  The mainstreaming of white supremacy and hard-right nativism. 

Seriously.  Fuck you, America. 
pretty much.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Caravan2001 on November 09, 2016, 05:12:55 AM
I think I am going to go to Phish in Mexico.  And stay there for 4 years.  I am in complete shock.  Mattstick, know of any good rentals in your 'hood?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 09, 2016, 06:06:16 AM
http://int.search.myway.com/search/GGmain.jhtml?p2=%5EUX%5Expu546%5ETTAB02%5Eca&ptb=CF656680-FAA5-4BE1-9165-62549B662282&n=782b2227&ind=&tpr=hpsb&trs=wtt&cn=ca&ln=en&si=CLeAqPn8sM8CFYNKXgodFlwDSQ&brwsid=48026a0e-bcf3-4ccf-808a-c244daf419ad&searchfor=cape%20breton%20farmer's%20daughter&st=tab
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 09, 2016, 06:07:41 AM
Fuck you, America. 

You just sent a fascist to the White House and gave him an all red congress. 

We should take a moment to say goodbye to the safety of religious and ethnic minorities, social security, medicare, medicaid, the minimum wage, Roe v Wade, what's left of the Voting Rights Act, LGBT rights, the progress we made with the drug war, our modest gains in Wall St. regulation, and what was left of common decency.  And what did we give all this up for?  The mainstreaming of white supremacy and hard-right nativism. 

Seriously.  Fuck you, America.


I... I... I'm at a loss for words.


Speechlessness, depression, anger and fear. That's all I have right now. WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?  :shakehead:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 09, 2016, 07:09:47 AM
I made myself go to bed last night at 10.30... and read my book.
as updates came throughout the night to my phone I woke up and refused to look.

my mom taught me to try and always find the positive in any situation I'm given; today my heart finds it really hard to do that.
my stomach is churning and my brain is really worrying for my cousins that are 18 and younger, my friends that don't fit "his mold," and maybe
even a little for myself being in a red state where I'm clearly not with the majority. A small part of me hoped to see history made again after being
lucky enough to be in Chicago and attending Obama's acceptance speech the first time around.

today I'm not sure if I'm proud to be an American, but I'm hopeful that there's positive somewhere in this?


Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 07:18:22 AM
I know most (maybe everyone) on here won't agree with me, but then again, when has that stopped me before.  I'm not going to argue about it all day because frankly, I am swamped at work and my day needs to move forward.  so have at me all you want.

one person sitting in a chair shouldn't make you be proud or not proud to be an American.  isn't our country about more than one person?

wake up and be the person you should be proud to be.  be yourself and carry on.  honestly, you'll influence more people's actual lives that way than an election.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 09, 2016, 07:28:13 AM
The one person in the chair has nothing to do with my pride or lack thereof.
It's the people who put him there.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on November 09, 2016, 08:02:55 AM
I'm remembering my despair the morning after Election day 2004. Everyone in Chapel Hill, NC walked around in a daze of confusion and something like self-pity.

We got through W. We thought that was the worst we could do. We were wrong.

Bright sides? I'm not sure they really exist here, but if they do... The religious conservative movement has just been shown up as a complete and inarguable hypocrisy? The Democratic Party might get its head out of its ass?

I'm reaching here, I know it. Someone help me out.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 09, 2016, 08:11:32 AM
The one person in the chair has nothing to do with my pride or lack thereof.
It's the people who put him there.

this was where my statement of unsureness came from.
 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mehead on November 09, 2016, 09:13:14 AM
Honestly more worried about Gingrich, Pence, Giuliani and Christie.

THIS
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:19:08 AM
Honestly more worried about Gingrich, Pence, Giuliani and Christie.

THIS

And all the Supreme Court nominees.

And whomever runs the FCC.

Whichever Oil Baron that will run the Energy Department.

FUCK
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 09:32:47 AM
The one person in the chair has nothing to do with my pride or lack thereof.
It's the people who put him there.

this was where my statement of unsureness came from.

exactly.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 09, 2016, 09:34:00 AM
I'm gonna preface this by saying neither my wife or I said one word to our daughter about Trump's deportation plans or really anything other than pray he doesn't win.
Yet this morning the first questions out of Mitike's mouth were...
Quote
Did he win?
   Yeah, he won.
Is he going to come to Canada?
   Yeah, probably at some point.
But I wasn't born here, is he going to make me go back to Ethiopia?
   No Miti, we have one of the good guys running our country.
I guess even 6 year olds talk politics.

I have to say my biggest fear in all this is the climate situation and his denial of global warming.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:36:48 AM

Quote
   No Miti, we have one of the good guys running our country.


Imagine if we'd let Harper win?  Jesus.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 09, 2016, 09:44:42 AM
The one person in the chair has nothing to do with my pride or lack thereof.
It's the people who put him there.

Yep, they're the ones that piss me off.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: nab on November 09, 2016, 09:59:06 AM
I actually went to work 2 hours early this morning in an attempt to escape the election. 

I'm loosing that bid as we speak. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 10:22:52 AM
Let's face it: Millions of people didn't so much vote for Trump as vote against Hillary. Democrats underestimated the masses' hatred of her to their ultimate peril.

But as a silver lining, consider that maybe this opens the door for a re-do. Someone actually electable and bereft of Clinton baggage. Warren 2020? This is still the country that voted twice for Obama, after all.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 09, 2016, 10:26:48 AM
Honestly, if it's an outsider with zero political experience that this country wants, I'm pulling for Bruce Springsteen... but I'm wide open to suggestions.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 09, 2016, 10:32:21 AM

Quote
   No Miti, we have one of the good guys running our country.


Imagine if we'd let Harper win?  Jesus.

I shudder at the thought.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mopper_smurf on November 09, 2016, 10:48:21 AM
(http://www.jarofquotes.com/img/quotes/c850eeb5c932d04621582f20d0160138.jpg)

Frank was right....
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 09, 2016, 11:30:44 AM
Who are these people that voted for Obama twice and Trump? 

I just can't understand how that mentality could possibly make any sense. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 11:32:57 AM
The Venn diagram is very small if overlapping at all.
But keep in mind turnout in any given election is like half.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: kellerb on November 09, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
Democrats underestimated the masses' hatred of her to their ultimate peril.
This - the traditional Blue states have never understood how much the so-called Rust belt, etc. Really Really Hates Hillary.  Republicans have had 20+ years to build up that hate.

Who are these people that voted for Obama twice and Trump? 

I just can't understand how that mentality could possibly make any sense. 
Well, it doesn't.  Not making sense makes sense for a Trump vote.

The Venn diagram is very small if overlapping at all.
But keep in mind turnout in any given election is like half.

It's the people that voted for Obama twice then didn't show up this time.
-6Million democrats vs -1Million Republicans compared to last time.  Something like that.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mistercharlie on November 09, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
Trump was the racist idiots Obama. Obama got young people and black people out to vote in record numbers and Trump did the same for stupid people and bigots.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 09, 2016, 11:55:56 AM
Trump was the racist idiots Obama. Obama got young people and black people out to vote in record numbers and Trump did the same for stupid people and bigots.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 09, 2016, 12:27:28 PM
http://youtu.be/9m2valF3s84 (http://youtu.be/9m2valF3s84)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 01:19:33 PM

I was the only white male within about 20 people on the subway this morning and I felt like people were staring at me wondering if I was the kind of person who supported Trump.

I'm grateful to know so many positive, kind and progressive Americans, I remember the feeling of HOPE from 8 years ago.  I want that back so bad right now.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 09, 2016, 01:36:42 PM

I was the only white male within about 20 people on the subway this morning and I felt like people were staring at me wondering if I was the kind of person who supported Trump.


i had the exact same experience on the bus this morning.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 01:36:50 PM

I was the only white male within about 20 people on the subway this morning and I felt like people were staring at me wondering if I was the kind of person who supported Trump.

In Canada? Dayum.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 02:42:48 PM
Interesting to think about that perspective mbw and mattstick. On this flip side, you have my experience last week.

I was at the gas station, just getting some gas after work, minding my business, when two white dudes in a pick up truck slow rolled past me. I thought nothing of it. Until 2 minutes later when they drove by again and the driver rolled his window down to yell "Fucking Nigger!" at me...which I just kind of thought "Hmmm, that's interesting."...and went about my day. Not the first time I've heard some stupid shit in my life, so it wasn't anything new, but twice in one week, the week before the election, yeah, shit's gotten weird.

The way I see it, all those people that voted for him, were really voting for a free pass to say whatever the fuck they've been wanting to say for the last 8 years, or longer really. Just a free pass to be the asshole that you are, because hey, why the fuck not, our leaders do.

I did like the comment earlier that we are the same country that voted for Obama twice, so the potential is there. And then I also think, only something like 55% of potential voters actually vote, and the results are pretty much 50/50, so really, it's only like a quarter of the country is ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes. That's not too bad, right?



Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Buffalo Budd on November 09, 2016, 03:05:13 PM
Holy shit GAH, good on you for taking the higher road, douchebags deserved a serious beat down.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 03:18:35 PM
Interesting to think about that perspective mbw and mattstick. On this flip side, you have my experience last week.

I was at the gas station, just getting some gas after work, minding my business, when two white dudes in a pick up truck slow rolled past me. I thought nothing of it. Until 2 minutes later when they drove by again and the driver rolled his window down to yell "Fucking Nigger!" at me...which I just kind of thought "Hmmm, that's interesting."...and went about my day. Not the first time I've heard some stupid shit in my life, so it wasn't anything new, but twice in one week, the week before the election, yeah, shit's gotten weird.

I definitely thought about the privilege I have in never before having been judged by my gender, sexual orientation or colour of my skin.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 03:22:02 PM
Holy shit GAH, good on you for taking the higher road, douchebags deserved a serious beat down.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 03:47:57 PM
can't bite my tongue anymore.
I did not vote for trump.  If I had to rank each and every candidate including everyone in the primaries, he'd be at the bottom of my list.  not only because of things he says, but also because he has no experience, does not have the personality to work with either party, etc.

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

if so, you are no better than the people you are criticizing.
accept the fact that people rank issues differently and even though I most likely disagree, some people may feel like trump may address those issues better than the other candidates.

we do have more than one party in this country.  people in this thread only care about what THEY feel is correct and don't care about the rest of the population.  just because someone has a different view than you doesn't mean they are an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash asshole.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 03:55:44 PM
Holy shit GAH, good on you for taking the higher road, douchebags deserved a serious beat down.

Yeah man, it's not about that tho. That wasn't the point of the story. I was more just trying to say, between that, and the experience that mbw and mattstick have had, there's definitely a heightened sense of tension and apprehension and suspicion running out there.  I think the whole election has been traumatic on the public psyche, in a way that we're going to experience the after effects of for some time.

And like I said, I've heard some stupid shit in my life, many times, since I was a kid, so you kind of learn to deal with it, because honestly, it doesn't happen that frequently. BUT as today has worn on, that incident from last week has started to bother me more. And I'll tell you why. Because last week, I brushed it off, as it being the week before the election, and people are all riled up and saying stupid shit, but next Tuesday this whole thing will be over, and it'll be behind us, and Trump and all his supporters will go back in their holes....But today, I'm more pissed about it than I was in that moment. Because last night just validated those people's experience and the reality of the world we live in and actual number of people that think and feel that way. And that my friends, is some fucking bullshit.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 04:00:09 PM

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?


No, it was a joke. And a bit of irony. And a bit of venting. But yes, I am highly aware that if I thought that it would make me the same.

And yes, what a lot of people feel today is how he other half of the country felt 4 and 8 years ago. So it's not any different. Trust me DoW, I'm incredibly accepting of others opinions.

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/45/459ce17e20c176c2f520f725554d13b2e25a8b76da41f056940c6028fb2a1a8d.jpg)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 04:02:59 PM

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?


No, it was a joke. And a bit of irony. And a bit of venting. But yes, I am highly aware that if I thought that it would make me the same.

And yes, what a lot of people feel today is how he other half of the country felt 4 and 8 years ago. So it's not any different. Trust me DoW, I'm incredibly accepting of others opinions.
ok.  we cool.
I used your words but I am just sick of all the opinions today.
I should have stayed away from the internet.  I just think we all need to remember that we need to understand some people have different views.  it doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 04:12:06 PM

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?


No, it was a joke. And a bit of irony. And a bit of venting. But yes, I am highly aware that if I thought that it would make me the same.

And yes, what a lot of people feel today is how he other half of the country felt 4 and 8 years ago. So it's not any different. Trust me DoW, I'm incredibly accepting of others opinions.
ok.  we cool.
I used your words but I am just sick of all the opinions today.
I should have stayed away from the internet.  I just think we all need to remember that we need to understand some people have different views.  it doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else.

Exactly. Who knows, this could be the best thing that ever happened. Or the worse. What the fuck do we know? It all has a purpose, even if we can't see or understand that with our finite minds. Maybe this was just in response to Obama, and the others halfs way of being inspired, and to do something to have their voices heard. And in turn, and in response to Trump, some really amazing people are going to step up their game in the coming years and be inspired to do some really great things that will actually heal what is becoming a more and more divided country. Or not. Like I said, who the fuck knows.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 09, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 04:20:37 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 04:32:32 PM
If your tax rate is more important to you than supporting bigots and racists, you're also a racist. It's basic math.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 04:36:15 PM
If your tax rate is more important to you than supporting bigots and racists, you're also a racist. It's basic math.
this statement makes absolutely zero sense to me.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 09, 2016, 04:47:57 PM
can't bite my tongue anymore.
I did not vote for trump.  If I had to rank each and every candidate including everyone in the primaries, he'd be at the bottom of my list.  not only because of things he says, but also because he has no experience, does not have the personality to work with either party, etc.

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

if so, you are no better than the people you are criticizing.
accept the fact that people rank issues differently and even though I most likely disagree, some people may feel like trump may address those issues better than the other candidates.

we do have more than one party in this country.  people in this thread only care about what THEY feel is correct and don't care about the rest of the population.  just because someone has a different view than you doesn't mean they are an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash asshole.

In no way do I think that every - or even the majority of - Trump voters are racist, ignorant, xenophobic, misogynistic, etc.

However, I DO think that Trump is a xenophobic, racist, misogynistic asshole... and those who voted for him are basically saying "that's ok with me," because at least he's not another in a long line of the same.

Look, the biggest issue I had with Clinton is that had she been elected and served even just one term we would be looking at 32 of the last 40 years with either a Bush or a Clinton in the White House (including the first Bush's VP terms). If she served 2 terms and that would be 36 of the last 44... and people were already calling on Michelle to run... if Clinton served two terms followed by Michelle for two terms, that would be 52 straight years with three families represented in the executive branch of our government. That's fucking unAmerican.

I voted for Clinton. I would do it again. I think she would have made a great president. There is no doubt in my mind. But it's icky to go Bush->Clinton->Bush->Obama->Clinton->Obama.

Still, the fact remains that we legitimized a fucktard racist misogynist xenophobic asshole... and those who voted for him legitimized that level of bullshit whether they fall into any of those buckets or not.

Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 09, 2016, 04:55:50 PM
can't bite my tongue anymore.
I did not vote for trump.  If I had to rank each and every candidate including everyone in the primaries, he'd be at the bottom of my list.  not only because of things he says, but also because he has no experience, does not have the personality to work with either party, etc.

however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

if so, you are no better than the people you are criticizing.
accept the fact that people rank issues differently and even though I most likely disagree, some people may feel like trump may address those issues better than the other candidates.

we do have more than one party in this country.  people in this thread only care about what THEY feel is correct and don't care about the rest of the population.  just because someone has a different view than you doesn't mean they are an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash asshole.

In no way do I think that every - or even the majority of - Trump voters are racist, ignorant, xenophobic, misogynistic, etc.

However, I DO think that Trump is a xenophobic, racist, misogynistic asshole... and those who voted for him are basically saying "that's ok with me," because at least he's not another in a long line of the same.

Look, the biggest issue I had with Clinton is that had she been elected and served even just one term we would be looking at 32 of the last 40 years with either a Bush or a Clinton in the White House (including the first Bush's VP terms). If she served 2 terms and that would be 36 of the last 44... and people were already calling on Michelle to run... if Clinton served two terms followed by Michelle for two terms, that would be 52 straight years with three families represented in the executive branch of our government. That's fucking unAmerican.

I voted for Clinton. I would do it again. I think she would have made a great president. There is no doubt in my mind. But it's icky to go Bush->Clinton->Bush->Obama->Clinton->Obama.

Still, the fact remains that we legitimized a fucktard racist misogynist xenophobic asshole... and those who voted for him legitimized that level of bullshit whether they fall into any of those buckets or not.


well stated.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 05:00:53 PM
I'm embarrassed to admit that I decided to choose not to vote for a President this time around.  I voted on everything else.  my choice is definitely the wrong answer but I just couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the 4 choices.  my opinion was that Clinton was the only of the 4 that had the qualifications and capable of being a President, but in my opinion she would have been a horrible President.  I have no idea what Trump will do.  I think we're playing with house money if he is close to being adequate.  it's a sad situation.

I'm just against the notion of demeaning anyone because of who they voted for.  I'm not sure why anyone would vote for him, but that is their right.  I just think some of the opinions on here are what causes so much hate in this country/world. 
I have friends who voted for Trump.  I may disagree with them on a political level in this case, but I don't think any less of them as people or friends.

eta:  I still know not voting is wrong, but I need to add that I live in a state that there is not even the hint of a question would vote blue.  I'm not sure how I would have handled it if I lived in a state like NH or any battleground state.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 09, 2016, 05:03:02 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

And that is just naive.

Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 05:11:13 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Depends on how you define "a hell of a lot." Dozens? Of course. Hundreds? Definitely. Thousands? I'm sure. Millions? Who knows.

And I say this agreeing with you 100% that there are any number of reasons to support Trump that don't have to have anything to do with his abundant character flaws. (I'd have to speculate, since no such reason would be my own.) I've been trying to say this all election season to friends of mine as they struggled to understand Trump's appeal, or just chalked it up to regular old red-neckery. Oh, and you'd better believe there are tons of people out there who hate the ever-loving shit out of Hillary. I'm quite sure a great many of Trump's votes were cast reluctantly.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 09, 2016, 05:18:14 PM
At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 05:31:28 PM
At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer. 

Betcha you'd find plenty of people rationalizing a Trump vote by downplaying the significance of some of his more incendiary comments. Or suggesting they came from good intentions (e.g. reducing terrorism or promoting American jobs). Fact is there were still very large policy differences between Trump and Clinton, and obviously a whole lot of people were unwilling to ignore those just to keep a boor of Trump's magnitude out of the White House.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 09, 2016, 06:07:08 PM
It's pretty simple, a vote for Trump is a vote to protect and continue the sequestration of wealth and power by white males. 

Even Trump's slogan of "Make America Great Again" suggests that if we could just rewind the wheels of progress, rid ourselves of all these illegal immigrants, squash the uppity feminists, deport the Muslims, put the blacks back in their place, stop pandering to sexual deviants and get back to the time of unquestioned white male authority, we will be better off as a country.  You know, the way things "used to be", wink, wink. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: cactusfan on November 09, 2016, 06:08:45 PM
This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

But Obama never said anything hateful or derogatory. In terms of how he presented himself and his campaign, there was no hate or violence. The things people hated and feared about Obama were things said by OTHER PEOPLE about him. And they believed it. And they still do.

The reason people are so hurt and saddened by Trump winning is not based on what some "liberal" news media is telling us he'll REALLY do and what he's REALLY like. It's based entirely on who he is, his own words, everything he's said he'd do, everyone he's said he hates.

Trump is a vile human being. It's that simple. If you choose to ignore that and say, well, the government needs to be shaken up, that's your right, but you're supporting a vile human being. Whatever the reasons people had for voting for Trump (and more on that below in the article I'm linking to), none were policy-based.

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

But we know what kind of vile shit he's said. And we know kind of vile people he's surrounding himself with. And we can see the kind of vile supporters who've taken his words to mean freedom for them to openly hate and oppress. So there is reason to be alarmed.

A vote for Trump is, whether meant or not, a vote supporting an evidently horrible human being. He's not said a thing, not in his entire life, to cast any doubt on who he is.

I loathed the governments of Bush 2, Bush 1, and Reagan. But I don't doubt for a minute any of them thought anything other than that they were doing what was best for the country, however misguided.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

Some people voted for him because of that, and only that: he's not the usual politician. But he's also a vile human being. There is not a single thing about him to admire. He's the very worst this country has to offer, strictly as a human being. To vote for him is to support him, and who he is.

As to how he'll govern? No one knows. Literally, no one. But based on what he's said, and who he's surrounding himself with, there is much reason to be scared.

This is a smart if flippant piece on why many people voted for him:

www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 06:17:10 PM
I'm quitting while behind.  but I still feel strongly about my point.

thanks to everyone for keeping it civil even if you disagree with me.
sorry for calling you ignorant mbw.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 09, 2016, 06:28:51 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 06:32:54 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.
you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 09, 2016, 06:34:59 PM
Here's the image.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 09, 2016, 06:36:45 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.
you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

Ah true. Thought un educated was in there. But yeah you can't really have a stat for a persons racism beliefs.
I'll draw out, just thought that was an interesting fact. So you're right not everyone was a racist, just most were dumbasses.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 09, 2016, 06:38:27 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.
you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

Ah true. Thought un educated was in there. But yeah you can't really have a stat for a persons racism beliefs.
I'll draw out, just thought that was an interesting fact. So you're right not everyone was a racist, just most were dumbasses.
yeah.  we were just making different points.
we cool too
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 09, 2016, 06:42:23 PM
This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

But Obama never said anything hateful or derogatory. In terms of how he presented himself and his campaign, there was no hate or violence. The things people hated and feared about Obama were things said by OTHER PEOPLE about him. And they believed it. And they still do.

The reason people are so hurt and saddened by Trump winning is not based on what some "liberal" news media is telling us he'll REALLY do and what he's REALLY like. It's based entirely on who he is, his own words, everything he's said he'd do, everyone he's said he hates.

Trump is a vile human being. It's that simple. If you choose to ignore that and say, well, the government needs to be shaken up, that's your right, but you're supporting a vile human being. Whatever the reasons people had for voting for Trump (and more on that below in the article I'm linking to), none were policy-based.

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

But we know what kind of vile shit he's said. And we know kind of vile people he's surrounding himself with. And we can see the kind of vile supporters who've taken his words to mean freedom for them to openly hate and oppress. So there is reason to be alarmed.

A vote for Trump is, whether meant or not, a vote supporting an evidently horrible human being. He's not said a thing, not in his entire life, to cast any doubt on who he is.

I loathed the governments of Bush 2, Bush 1, and Reagan. But I don't doubt for a minute any of them thought anything other than that they were doing what was best for the country, however misguided.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

Some people voted for him because of that, and only that: he's not the usual politician. But he's also a vile human being. There is not a single thing about him to admire. He's the very worst this country has to offer, strictly as a human being. To vote for him is to support him, and who he is.

As to how he'll govern? No one knows. Literally, no one. But based on what he's said, and who he's surrounding himself with, there is much reason to be scared.

This is a smart if flippant piece on why many people voted for him:

www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
well said.
and TBH would things have been much better if it was Ted Cruz or  Ben Carson getting elected? lol.
Either way decades of social progress and forward thinking economic globalism which benefits everyone just went down the shitter while a few Koch brothers get richer speeding up the destruction of  the enviroment one barrel of oil at a time.

I cant wait to see how the hell Fox news goes on now that theyve won.
im assuming theyll just have to start spewing nationalist hate at other countries since theyve completely brainwashed the majority of this one.

bottom line is i think its safe to say that most of us over 40 wont outlive the negative consequences of this election... especially the supreme court and everything they will destroy.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 09, 2016, 07:10:10 PM
Trying to be optimistic. Here's what I think:

https://www.facebook.com/dave.anderso/posts/10154277416236645 (https://www.facebook.com/dave.anderso/posts/10154277416236645)

Quote

"Life goes on and people make do with what they have, and they fall in love and get drunk and sing and dance."
- David Byrne

Final thoughts at the end of a long day:

It is painful for progressives like me to think about the repercussions of this election that will inevitably ripple out from the center and affect our lives and the lives of millions...

20 million people with their health insurance at risk. Millions of immigrants worried about deportation, violence, discrimination. Millions in poverty fearing the end of welfare programs. Millions affected by escalating weather events caused by climate change. And on and on...

These are important issues and progressives will continue to fight for them.

That said, I am reminded of the quote above which always gives me hope. The quote is from a journal entry on David Byrne's old blog. Unfortunately, the original blog post is no longer online, but it was about one of his trips to South America. He was musing on the lives of ordinary citizens living under authoritarian regimes. No matter the oppression felt, the squalor imposed, the hardships endured, people continue to live. They create happiness for themselves.

"Life goes on and people make do with what they have, and they fall in love and get drunk and sing and dance."

It's exactly what Bob Marley says in Redemption Song:

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds. Have no fear for atomic energy, cuz none of them can stop the time."

We cannot live in fear. Life will go on and we will find happiness. Look within. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Love one another.

Sing and dance and celebrate life.

I love you all.

Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 09, 2016, 07:23:26 PM
H came here to post this.
http://www.snopes.com/klan-marches-celebrate-trump-victory/

Since we are on the topic of racists supporting trump. They confirmed it wasn't really the kkk but just conservative extremists.  But the kkk rep does kangfirm their celebration march will be on  12/3
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 09, 2016, 07:50:33 PM
Thanks for that, Dave.  It helped lift my spirits a bit.  :clap:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 08:57:32 PM
however, do people really think that everyone who voted for Trump is an ignorant racist close minded xenophobic misogynist white trash assholes?

All of them?  No.  But a hell of a lot of them!
sorry, but that is just ignorant.  I really don't have any nicer way of saying it.

Not really once you add in all the 'Mercia frat boys and southern good ole boys and maybe some of his business buddies you've prob hit most of his support.

I'll post the stat when I am at a comp and idk how google came to this but saw that the majority of counties that went to trump, less than 10% of the population have a bachelors degree. If that number is supported with evidence than you're anger on everyone being ignorant should be directed elsewhere.
you drew me back in.
what does a degree or lack thereof have to do with any of the above terms?  I keep thinking I misunderstood your post but I reread it a few times and don't see the connection of a lack of a degree with those terms above.

I dunno, I'd venture so far as to say that education level and open-mindedness may well correlate. Exposure to different ideas, people, cultures and environments can all be antidotes to ignorance. Stands to reason, anyhow.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 09, 2016, 09:11:28 PM
I'm in Bermuda for work right now so I missed all this and I'm not gonna try to unpack it all but I will say that I agree pretty much word for word with bvaz. A couple things stand out to me tho:

At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer.

Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

...

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

It's exactly comparable to how people felt when Obama won (twice). The (very real) anger/fear/sadness/frustration that you are feeling right now is how people who opposed Obama felt upon his electoral victories. But by (effectively) saying, "we are opposing Trump for the right reasons while those opposed to Obama only did so because they were duped by Fox News," you are propagating the exact same dismissive, belittling, condescending argument that so enabled those who voted for Trump.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

I wholeheartedly agree.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 09:21:22 PM
Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

The Obama drone program has been quite active during his tenure, even though drone strikes are known to sometimes kill innocent civilians. One could (pretty easily, if you ask me) make a moral case against the use of drones. And yet we wouldn't accuse anyone who supports Obama to (necessarily) support the killing of innocents.

In other words, shit's complicated.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:35:14 PM
Sorry - the line gets drawn at hatred, racism and intolerance.

If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA, you don't have the privilege of saying "oh well, I disagree with X on Libya and the fact that X's supporters detest my kind of people, but I like X's stance on health care reform".

If the KKK supports Trump, and his supporters are emboldened by his rhetoric, you don't vote with him because of his "outside Washington" take on reforming the tax code.

And if you didn't vote at all?  FFS.

Whelp, maybe I should leave this thread.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:39:54 PM
Donald Fucking Trump had 2 FUCKING years to say "David Duke believes in horrible things, and I don't want his endorsement, and if you stand with David Duke I don't want your vote"

but did he?

And then millions of Americans walked into a voting booth and chose to either A) vote for him or B) not vote for Hillary Clinton to STOP DONALD TRUMP.

Seems like you should be cool with the KKK burning a cross on your fucking lawns if that's the decision you made.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: cactusfan on November 09, 2016, 09:48:46 PM
I'm in Bermuda for work right now so I missed all this and I'm not gonna try to unpack it all but I will say that I agree pretty much word for word with bvaz. A couple things stand out to me tho:

At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer.

Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

This is not simply a matter of a preferred candidate losing. And it's not comparable to when Obama won when all those against him were freaking out, saying the country would be destroyed, and everything ruined. Those people believed what they believed about him because of what Fox "news" and its ilk told them. That he was a secret Muslim, that he was a socialist, that he'd take all our precious guns away, etc.

...

Trump has no policies. Building a wall, deporting all the foreigners, eliminated healthcare for millions, making "big deals", etc., aren't policies. It's all chest thumping. Everyone has reason to be scared of what he might do, not because we've somehow been convinced by those damned liberals that his policies will be bad for the country--in the way Fox convinced viewers Obama's would be bad--but because no one has ANY IDEA what he's going to do.

It's exactly comparable to how people felt when Obama won (twice). The (very real) anger/fear/sadness/frustration that you are feeling right now is how people who opposed Obama felt upon his electoral victories. But by (effectively) saying, "we are opposing Trump for the right reasons while those opposed to Obama only did so because they were duped by Fox News," you are propagating the exact same dismissive, belittling, condescending argument that so enabled those who voted for Trump.

What does Trump think? Trump is interested in power and satisfying his own ego. I see no evidence of him knowing anything about politics, about policies, about governing, and I have no idea what he believes in other than his own bullshit. He is a new element in American politics.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Not sure why you're selectively reading what I wrote.

I'm not saying anyone FEELS any different, my entire point is to explain how the REASONS ARE DIFFERENT. People felt this anger at Obama based on what THEY HAD BEEN TOLD HE WAS. Do you not understand that? Nothing to do with what he SAID, or what his verbally expressed POLICIES were to be, but because of how he'd been represented.

Trump has created the reaction he has for exactly the opposite reason. It is based ENTIRELY ON WHAT HE HAS SAID AND DONE. Do you seriously not understand that? Do you live in some strange cocoon where what people say is ignored? That candidates simply represent party platforms and are otherwise indistinguishable?

Trump has PROVEN all by himself the kind of person he is. Forget about policies--of which he has none--forget about the fact that you don't like Hillary because her voice makes your balls shrink or whatever. Did she threaten to silence journalists, to jail her opponent, do deport millions, to spy on specific minorities? Did she create dog-whistle attack ads against african american and jews? Did she stay up all night tweeting violent insane garbage about women too fat and ugly to fuck?

The fear people are feeling at his election has nothing to do with his being a republican--which he barely is anyway--it's WHO HE IS. And WHO HE IS is the man he, all by himself, has shown himself to be.

Hatred at Obama was not based on WHO HE IS or what he proposed to do. It was--and is--based on the FALSE PERCEPTION that he he is a secret muslim, foreign born, socialist, bent on destroying america, etc. etc. etc.

This:

Sorry - the line gets drawn at hatred, racism and intolerance.

If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA, you don't have the privilege of saying "oh well, I disagree with X on Libya and the fact that X's supporters detest my kind of people, but I like X's stance on health care reform".

If the KKK supports Trump, and his supporters are emboldened by his rhetoric, you don't vote with him because of his "outside Washington" take on reforming the tax code.

And if you didn't vote at all?  FFS.

Whelp, maybe I should leave this thread.

Yep. Me too. I've said my say. Back to writing about movies...
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 09:50:35 PM
Gee, let's see here... the Democrat has been involved in some corrupt dealings since she's been at the highest levels of government since the early 90s, but I can't vote for her...

No, instead I'll let Donald FUCKING Trump WIN THE ELECTION and become President, a man who doesn't believe in climate change and will push back the ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET'S efforts to stop Global Warming.

Yeah, real nuanced choice there... Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 09, 2016, 10:03:30 PM

Please don't report me to Melania's new Cyber Bullying Task Force.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 09, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
The line gets drawn at racism but not at actually killing innocent civilians using mechanisms of war?

Obama has had eight years to reform the drug war or at least give states substantial leeway by descheduling, say, cannabis altogether. Instead, he seems content to watch as people with guns throw you in a cage for having a plant.

Point being, there are plenty of moral outrages to go around. I'm not saying everyone's stirring up an equal quantity of them, but no one has the monopoly.

Somehow I feel like myself and a couple others are sitting here defending Donald Trump when in fact all we're pointing out is that the (fully valid) reasons so many people hate him are not necessarily the same reasons so many other people voted for him.

Also, Donald Trump is a soulless panderer who knew what he needed to do and say to energize a voting bloc he desperately counted on to win the election. He's morally bankrupt, but that matters bupkis to someone who decided decades ago that Hillary is too.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 09, 2016, 10:08:35 PM
At the end of the day, if you voted for a racist xenophobe, regardless of your beliefs or intent, your actions were still racist and xenophobic.  Because the end result is the same thing.  You've legitimized and endorsed a racist xenophobe and, because of your actions, people will suffer.

Dan, you voted for Hillary. Do you legitimize and endorse her militarism? Her foremost FP goal of enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria? Her signature achievement as SoS of intervention in Libya ("smart power at its best")? I would be very surprised if you did, and yet you still voted for her. Isn't it possible that some/many/most people had similar reservations about Trump (for obviously very different reasons) but still felt compelled to vote for him based on any multitude of reasons that can't be boiled down to good v evil?

In short, yes. As far as foreign policy goes, my choice was between center-right, hawkish militarism and full-blown, far-right jingoism.  I'm okay with endorsing the former over the latter, considering this was a general election with limited choices.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 09, 2016, 10:36:10 PM
My county in Ohio (Mahoning) is one of the deepest, darkest, blue counties in the state.  Dems win elections here with dictator like percentages.  Republicans don't even bother running in most local elections (often times the only people on the ballot is a Dem and a Green -- and sometimes the Green is actually competitive). But Hillary squeaked by with just 50.1% of the vote here.  Wtf?!?  This was the easiest decision ever. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 09, 2016, 11:47:34 PM
its sad to say, but i actually respect someone who will admit to being racist, sexest, xenophbic etc than these self denying blinders on -refuse to admit they are complicit mother fuckers. seriously, man the fuck up.

&
PS- just for today ill let you guys in on my super secret closet racist test.
...sorry in advance for anyone here that might be in denial.
-Ask someone if they like watching  basketball: If they say 'just college ball" - then theyre a closet racist. works every time.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 10, 2016, 02:12:10 AM
just for today ill let you guys in on my super secret closet racist test.
...sorry in advance for anyone here that might be in denial.
-Ask someone if they like watching  basketball: If they say 'just college ball" - then theyre a closet racist. works every time.

That's pretty good. Obvious slam dunk if they say their favorite team's Duke.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 06:31:25 AM
I'm late for work and the Paug is blocked at the office here in Bermuda so I'll have more later, but needless to say, I disagree. Respectfully.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: slslbs on November 10, 2016, 08:53:00 AM
My own take on this is that there are a lot of pissed off folks, many in the rust belt, and Trump tapped into their anger. Was racism and xenophobia part of it? For many, yes.
Michael Moore sent out an email this past spring fearing a Trump victory because he saw the motivation of the pissed off people in the rust belt.

and you know what else gets non - democrats motivated? Hillary. They hate her. And, face it, she didn't inspire many on the left. A good moderate GOP candidate would have blown her off the map
This should be a wake up call for the bosses of both parties, because the heir apparants of both failed.

I hope that Trump said a lot of that shit just to get elected. Time will tell.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: antelope19 on November 10, 2016, 10:03:31 AM
My own take on this is that there are a lot of pissed off folks, many in the rust belt, and Trump tapped into their anger. Was racism and xenophobia part of it? For many, yes.
Michael Moore sent out an email this past spring fearing a Trump victory because he saw the motivation of the pissed off people in the rust belt.

and you know what else gets non - democrats motivated? Hillary. They hate her. And, face it, she didn't inspire many on the left. A good moderate GOP candidate would have blown her off the map
This should be a wake up call for the bosses of both parties, because the heir apparants of both failed.

I hope that Trump said a lot of that shit just to get elected. Time will tell.

This. These are my thoughts exactly.

The GOP doesn't get control of everything(house, senate, White House) for the first time since 1928 because people are happy about the way things have gone the last 4 (arguably 8 ) years. Hillary represented more of the same to a lot of people. And as mentioned above, a lot of people just flat out despise Hillary.

But yeah, I really hope this was a serious wake up call to both parties. We need to do significantly better in 4 years. That Colbert clip struck a cord with me: It seems we have lost our way a bit.

Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 10, 2016, 10:09:57 AM
The GOP doesn't get control of everything(house, senate, White House) for the first time since 1928 because people are happy about the way things have gone the last 4 (arguably 8 ) years. Hillary represented more of the same to a lot of people.

Yeah, great.  So lets elect possibly the biggest asshole in the country.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 10, 2016, 10:42:47 AM
Look at turn-out but don't blame those numbers solely on disaffect voters.
Disenfranchised voters were also a significant factor in several states.

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-attack-on-voting-rights-was-the-most-under-covered-story-of-2016/

The abolishment of the VRA enabled Voter ID laws which allowed polling stations to turn away droves of would-be voters. These were largely minority voters.
Quote
We’ll likely never know how many people were kept from the polls by restrictions like voter-ID laws, cuts to early voting, and barriers to voter registration. But at the very least this should have been a question that many more people were looking into. For example, 27,000 votes currently separate Trump and Clinton in Wisconsin, where 300,000 registered voters, according to a federal court, lacked strict forms of voter ID. Voter turnout in Wisconsin was at its lowest levels in 20 years and decreased 13 percent in Milwaukee, where 70 percent of the state’s African-American population lives, according to Daniel Nichanian of the University of Chicago.

I documented stories of voters in Wisconsin—including a 99-year-old man—who made two trips to the polls and one to the DMV on Election Day just to be able to vote, while others decided not to vote at all because they were denied IDs. When Margie Mueller, an 85-year-old woman from Plymouth, Wisconsin, wasn’t allowed to vote with her expired driver’s license, her husband, Alvin, decided not to vote either. They were both Democrats. “The damn Republicans,” he said, “don’t want Latinos and old people to vote.”

This and the broad elimination of polling places themselves cut into turnout.

This is something we can work on changing.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 10, 2016, 12:24:09 PM
It seems fairly obvious to me that higher turnout favors Democrats in general, and the GOP's own efforts on "eliminating voter fraud" seem to confirm this. For now, they've been able to artificially inflate their successes through gerrymandering and voter suppression because the votes otherwise break down just close enough to parity to make this work.

But it's an extremely short-sighted strategy. Eventually, the demographic shifts will overwhelm them and Democrat-leaning voter bases will be able to trump GOP blocs even with much lower turnout numbers. And mind you, this is the party whose presidential candidate's share of the Latino vote doubled from 1996 to 2004. George W. spoke Spanish and talked about paths to citizenship before the angry fringe of his base (animated in part through his and Rove's own doing via gay marriage and issues like that) put the entire party in their place on that one. Won't be long before Texas flips to blue, and it may spread out from there.

At least, that's my quasi-informed prediction.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: sunrisevt on November 10, 2016, 01:06:10 PM

Please don't report me to Melania's new Cyber Bullying Task Force.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Kristen-Bell-Laughing-to-Crying.gif)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 01:35:08 PM
Thanks America

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

Quote
Ebell, who was dubbed an “elegant nerd” and a “policy wonk” by Vanity Fair, is known for his prolific writings that question what he calls climate change “alarmism.” He appears frequently in the media and before Congress. He’s also chairman of the Cooler Heads Coalition, a group of nonprofits that “question global warming alarmism and oppose energy-rationing policies.”

Quote
Ebell’s views appear to square with Trump’s when it comes to EPA’s agenda. Trump has called global warming “bullshit” and he has said he would “cancel” the Paris global warming accord and roll back President Obama’s executive actions on climate change (ClimateWire, May 27).

But yeah, it was totally more important that Hillary didn't get into the White House. FFS.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 01:47:35 PM

"Well Hillary had a private email server, maybe I just won't vote..."

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 04:54:45 PM
Strap in, kids...

If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Not sure why you're selectively reading what I wrote.

I'm not saying anyone FEELS any different, my entire point is to explain how the REASONS ARE DIFFERENT. People felt this anger at Obama based on what THEY HAD BEEN TOLD HE WAS. Do you not understand that? Nothing to do with what he SAID, or what his verbally expressed POLICIES were to be, but because of how he'd been represented.

Trump has created the reaction he has for exactly the opposite reason. It is based ENTIRELY ON WHAT HE HAS SAID AND DONE. Do you seriously not understand that? Do you live in some strange cocoon where what people say is ignored? That candidates simply represent party platforms and are otherwise indistinguishable?

Trump has PROVEN all by himself the kind of person he is. Forget about policies--of which he has none--forget about the fact that you don't like Hillary because her voice makes your balls shrink or whatever. Did she threaten to silence journalists, to jail her opponent, do deport millions, to spy on specific minorities? Did she create dog-whistle attack ads against african american and jews? Did she stay up all night tweeting violent insane garbage about women too fat and ugly to fuck?

The fear people are feeling at his election has nothing to do with his being a republican--which he barely is anyway--it's WHO HE IS. And WHO HE IS is the man he, all by himself, has shown himself to be.

Hatred at Obama was not based on WHO HE IS or what he proposed to do. It was--and is--based on the FALSE PERCEPTION that he he is a secret muslim, foreign born, socialist, bent on destroying america, etc. etc. etc.

I don't know how or why you've come to this belief that people opposed only could have Obama because of "WHAT THEY HAD BEEN TOLD HE WAS," but I gotta say, I think it's grossly misguided. I just can't wrap my head around this notion that the only reason people could have possibly rejected Obama was because they feared he was a Muslim or a closet socialist or because they just straight up don't like brown people. It couldn't be the fact that they held deeply personal and vastly different views on abortion, guns, religious freedom or marriage. No, no, no, it must have been that Fox News duped those dumbfuck, backassward racists who were just looking for a reason to hate the first black president. It must suck to have such vitriolic disdain for the 60M people who voted against him in 2 elections.

The abject dismissal to even begin to understand the reasons why people disagree with them is a significant problem on the left right now IMO. Hillary won the population centers where the most wealth and power is concentrated, and lost literally everywhere else. You don't see that as a problem? In WI, more than 60% of voters viewed Trump unfavorably and yet he STILL won 20% of those people (https://twitter.com/WisVoter/status/796208865649885189). Don't you think that that represents a more systemic and fundamental belief than just "Trump voters are racist?" When Obama and other Dems mocked Trump's slogan, saying "America is already great," can you really not see what a giant middle finger that is for those people in most of the country that have been passed over in terms of wealth and comfort that people on the coasts take for granted? Since the 2010 "Tea Party wave," Republican voters have been rejecting big gov't, banks, status quo. This is not an exclusively racist/sexist bigotry brought on by hatred for Obama or stoked by Trump. There are far deeper values at work here.

I am sympathetic to the view that decreased turnout hurt Hillary, but I find it hard to believe that this is exclusively a function of GOP efforts to systematically squash likely-D voters. 69M people voted for Obama in 2008; 66M voted for him in 2012. 60M voted for her this time. That kind of fallout isn't a result of voter ID laws or a lack of polling places. At some point, you have to look at it and say maybe there was a problem with the candidate.

Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 05:01:00 PM
Strap in, kids...

If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Don't make me go to his website and find his Muslim ban statement, which is back BTW - he's really trying to be President for all Americans.

What are you even doing?  Yes, Hillary flawed candidate, sure people upset with whatever for whatever last 8 years... look who was elected instead - it is LITERALLY INDEFENSIBLE, except here you are trying to nitpick people...



Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 10, 2016, 05:20:25 PM
The only question now is will it take a couple years for the global economy to meltdown from mismanagement and looting, or can we look forward to it in 2017?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 10, 2016, 05:45:01 PM
look, this idea that things werent working the last 8 years and needed to be shook up would make sense except the only reason things couldnt work the last 8 years is b/c the Republicans cock blocked everything Obama's administration wanted to do from day 1. There was zero middle ground, zero compromise, zero bipartisanship.
Just look at Obamacare- the ACA wasnt even close to what the Dems would have implemented if they could have done it their way. It is in fact the exact system the REpublicans came up with on their own. IT was their fucked up take to appease the majority of Americans that voted for Obama.
I mean for Christ's sake i never even got to see Obamacare in my state b/c of the fucking REpublicans blocking my access to it by refusing to expand medicade.
If they repeal and replace it i might actually get health care for the 1st time now, how fucked up is that?

One thing that struck me the most about the disconnect with both parties and the state of elctorate aspect was brought up by David Brooks.
...and to me this is the key reeason Trump supporters in actuality screwed themselves and the entire country.
Both parites are actually now flip flopped demographically when it comes to their traditional economic beliefs.
You have poor white people voting for the party of the economic elte, and higher educated wealthier people voting for the party that always backed the poor.
I cant wait for all these indigent Rednecks to get back to the hills of west Virginia and realize they just lost every social program that was sustaining their existence.

For awhile now there has been a part of me that just wanted the Republicans to get their way and have complete control in Washington. Just to see them fail.
At this point i'm closer to being a Communist/ anarchist then a Democrat or even Socialist.
Sadly we arent going to just be able to sit through four years with our fingers crossed and hoep to come out the other side.
the shift in the social political outlook of the country this year is the turning of the tide that has been headed this way for decades.
The ideas coming from the right that will now be tested will most likely blow our economy back to the stone age.

Do you really think destroying trade deals and insulating ourselves we are going to change the balance and momentum of the global economy?
Are we going to start manufacturing the entirity of all products that currently come from China?
And for crying out loud the environment was prettty much already on a doomsday clock, but now? lol, i bet i see FLorida go under the sea before i die.
Ignoring facts and futures is going to do exactly what the REpublicans always wanted- make a shit ton of shirt term money for a handful of evil men.

Obama's policies domestic, economic, foreign were exactly what the country needed IMO Were any of them actually unfettered or censored? gimme a break.
Just watch what happens in Syria and the Middle East. The careful calculation and modulating controlled policy is the only thing that has kept that shit from starting WW3, and you best believe thats about to pop off as soon these idiots get in office.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 10, 2016, 06:00:26 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: antelope19 on November 10, 2016, 06:29:08 PM

Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 10, 2016, 07:10:14 PM

Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.

Some of our finest years in history.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: westcider on November 10, 2016, 07:41:13 PM
I live in a blue state and I hate politics, thereforee I avoid them as much as I possibly can.  so let that inform what I am saying.  but I know a few smart people who are really into politics and are Obama supporters.  these folks dug into the Hillary emails and came out not just hating Hillary, but thinking that she and the Clinton Foundation are literally evil, and that John Podesta is... well I don't even want to say.

Trump said a bunch of horrible stuff, there is no denying that.  but I think a lot of people assume that we are only seeing the public face of our politicians, and behind closed doors they might be saying equally horrible stuff.  apparently wikileaks proved to my friends that Hillary was.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 08:30:36 PM
Strap in, kids...

If Candidate X openly talked about banning your religion from the USA...

Of course, that's not what he said, but you do you.

Don't make me go to his website and find his Muslim ban statement, which is back BTW - he's really trying to be President for all Americans.

What are you even doing?  Yes, Hillary flawed candidate, sure people upset with whatever for whatever last 8 years... look who was elected instead - it is LITERALLY INDEFENSIBLE, except here you are trying to nitpick people...

I agree completely, banning people from coming into the country based on nothing but religion is indefensible. But that's not what you - or many in the media - said he was proposing. You took the additional step of saying he wants to ban all Muslims. Others (not here) have used the term "internment camps." Hyperbolic statements like these demean the very real reasons to oppose his highly charged and hateful statements.

I understand why Muslims feel scared by the prospects of a Trump presidency: it's because there was no voice to counter the widespread mainstream consensus that Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims or send them back to their countries. You call that nitpicking, but it's not. It's pushing back against the false narrative that the next POTUS will actively work to remove every man, woman, and child in this country who practice Islam.

I can't tell you how much I hate having to defend this assclown (that's not what I think I'm doing but I'm sure most would disagree). But when you distort the actual facts of the debate with such emotional and (IMO) irrational fervor, well, it's a bit too much for me. See something, say something and whatnot.

I did lol at the cyberbullying comment fwiw.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.

Dodd-Frank hasn't been very effective IMO at getting to the root cause of the problems that contributed to the financial crisis. Like most wide sweeping regulation, that doesn't mean all components are bad, but, on balance, I think it's been a net drag. However, Trump has also suggested bringing back Glass-Steagall. Now, I don't personally believe G-S caused the crisis (I'm in the minority in that view, even with some very smart banking regulation people I know/follow), but if you could trade D-F for G-S, would you?


Didn't Republicans control everything in 2002-2006 or something?

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read that somewhere. That's what I get for not checking the facts.

I think the 1928 thing (which I heard half asleep the other night too) was total GOP control, including state legislatures and governorships. Which is just another example of why this election was about more than Trump and his (unknown number of) racist supporters. Literally no one I know (other than the most fervent campaign sycophants) thought that could happen. There is something more afoot here.

The only question now is will it take a couple years for the global economy to meltdown from mismanagement and looting, or can we look forward to it in 2017?

Obvious disclaimers, but the Dow closed at a record today. The stock market is not the economy and I have been extremely reluctant to use equities as an indicator of anything except central bank largesse for a long time, but still, that is a notable and highly unexpected development.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 10, 2016, 08:48:45 PM
You're right, he didnt say he would ban all muslims, just any new ones and of course to get all current muslim americans to register as such.

Honest mistake by mattstick im sure.  Trump wouldnt say something that crazy.   :roll:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 08:54:19 PM

Your apparent lack of concern over the election of a dangerous demagogue to the US presidency is remarkably unsettling.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 08:57:15 PM

Your apparent lack of concern over the election of a dangerous demagogue to the US presidency is remarkably unsettling.

You thought black people were looking at you funny the day after. In Canada. Maybe you're taking this a little too hard?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 10, 2016, 08:59:52 PM

Time to log off dude.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 10, 2016, 09:02:27 PM

Your apparent lack of concern over the election of a dangerous demagogue to the US presidency is remarkably unsettling.
or par for the course.


and
The only question now is will it take a couple years for the global economy to meltdown from mismanagement and looting, or can we look forward to it in 2017?
TBh i think it will most likely resemble what happened with REagan but x10 or so.
a half dozen years of fake prosperity followed by hell when the bill comes.
most economists ive heard say his plan is basically trickle down voodoo econmoics on steroids.

though the domestic tax changes and whatnot probably arent the real concern.
the real question is how much of his promises to get rid of NAFTA and the TTP etc come to fruition.
im guessing it will really boil down to what is best for our corporate overlords.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: slslbs on November 10, 2016, 09:17:00 PM
the scary thing to me isn't Trump himself, but of all the craziness that has just been brewing for years and is now about to boil over. Trump is just a sign (and potential enabler) of all of that.
I think I posted the story in the "I hate" thread a while back, but a great guy and great doctor I know was chased out of Bangor ME because he is Arab. That behavior has been getting more and more open and more and more prevalent. Trump is a sign of the times.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 10, 2016, 09:20:34 PM
the scary thing to me isn't Trump himself, but of all the craziness that has just been brewing for years and is now about to boil over. Trump is just a sign (and potential enabler) of all of that.
I think I posted the story in the "I hate" thread a while back, but a great guy and great doctor I know was chased out of Bangor ME because he is Arab. That behavior has been getting more and more open and more and more prevalent. Trump is a sign of the times.

Pffft, that must be a made up story.  People werent hateful  at him because he was arab, it was because they didnt agree with his stance on taxes.  Dont be so ignorant. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 10, 2016, 09:25:43 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.

Dodd-Frank hasn't been very effective IMO at getting to the root cause of the problems that contributed to the financial crisis. Like most wide sweeping regulation, that doesn't mean all components are bad, but, on balance, I think it's been a net drag. However, Trump has also suggested bringing back Glass-Steagall. Now, I don't personally believe G-S caused the crisis (I'm in the minority in that view, even with some very smart banking regulation people I know/follow), but if you could trade D-F for G-S, would you

It's not worth pondering, honestly.  I'll humor you and say that if we could keep the CFPB as it stands and reinstate GS, I might compromise there.  But it doesn't matter.  Who knows what that clown really wants to do and, in any case, Congress will never go along.  All they'll do is gut DF and move on to the next thing.  I mean, do you really see Congressional leadership holding a vote on a new and effective GS? 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 09:59:28 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.

Dodd-Frank hasn't been very effective IMO at getting to the root cause of the problems that contributed to the financial crisis. Like most wide sweeping regulation, that doesn't mean all components are bad, but, on balance, I think it's been a net drag. However, Trump has also suggested bringing back Glass-Steagall. Now, I don't personally believe G-S caused the crisis (I'm in the minority in that view, even with some very smart banking regulation people I know/follow), but if you could trade D-F for G-S, would you

It's not worth pondering, honestly.  I'll humor you and say that if we could keep the CFPB as it stands and reinstate GS, I might compromise there.  But it doesn't matter.  Who knows what that clown really wants to do and, in any case, Congress will never go along.  All they'll do is gut DF and move on to the next thing.  I mean, do you really see Congressional leadership holding a vote on a new and effective GS?

Sure, I could see something like Sherrod and Wyden or Warner working with any number of Republicans on the Senate Finace Committee - Grassley, Crapo, Portman, Toomey all come to mind - to get some kind of compromise that rolls back much of D-F in return for reinstatement of G-S. Putting that into practice is likely much harder to do. But if the ultimate goal of D-F is to end TBTF (which it absolutely does not do), G-S reinstatement would be a far more effective lever to pull and I don't know why they wouldn't go for it.

But here's what I find curious about your response: you say it doesn't matter cause it's not politically tenable. I don't fully disagree with that statement, but a couple of pages ago you were all fired up about the myriad of politically impossible policies a Trump administration would entail. Granted, these are all hypotheticals and yes we do not know what he is going to do and yes, the prospect of a single party gov't is terrifying to my independent ass. All I'm saying is it's not all shitstorms and baby carcasses. In fact, I'd argue the prospect for meaningful financial reform will be greater in Jan 2017 than it has been for a long time, in no small part because of the GOP pigheadish stubborness to cede any ground to this president (I'm sure we'd disagree on the reasons for that stubborness tho, but that's a whole nother story).

the scary thing to me isn't Trump himself, but of all the craziness that has just been brewing for years and is now about to boil over. Trump is just a sign (and potential enabler) of all of that.
I think I posted the story in the "I hate" thread a while back, but a great guy and great doctor I know was chased out of Bangor ME because he is Arab. That behavior has been getting more and more open and more and more prevalent. Trump is a sign of the times.

The stories popping up of some of Trump's racist supporters being more emboldened over the past 36 hrs is indeed troubling. And now that the election is over, I truly hope Trump will stand up (hopefully as early as tomorrow) and tell those people to knock that shit off and that his administration will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law any violence in the name of hatred. And fuck him if he doesn't.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 10, 2016, 10:07:00 PM
the scary thing to me isn't Trump himself, but of all the craziness that has just been brewing for years and is now about to boil over. Trump is just a sign (and potential enabler) of all of that.
I think I posted the story in the "I hate" thread a while back, but a great guy and great doctor I know was chased out of Bangor ME because he is Arab. That behavior has been getting more and more open and more and more prevalent. Trump is a sign of the times.

He has certainly emboldened a lot of nutbags to believe that asshole behavior is not only not bad, but actually rewarded. (I mean, look where it got Trump.) My only hope is that as these people are drawn out of the woodwork, the greater number of us who prefer things like decorum, decency and adherence to the Golden Rule in our public and political lives will eventually overwhelm these lunatic elements and dispatch them back to the fringe.

You might have thought Trump merely running for the GOP nomination, to say nothing of securing it, would have kicked off just such a reaction, but sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom first, and although we just crossed a major milestone along the path there, I fear we may not have yet reached it.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 10, 2016, 10:23:44 PM
Latest Taibbi

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/president-trump-how-america-got-it-so-wrong-w449783
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mopper_smurf on November 11, 2016, 10:58:52 AM
H d id warn you guys ....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw0mB0qWQAAI1mi.jpg:large)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 11, 2016, 12:57:00 PM
(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-agree-with-my-father-albert-einstein-don-t-believe-every-quote-you-read-on-the-internet-james-earl-jones-127-41-64.jpg)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 11, 2016, 12:58:20 PM
For a guy whose entire candidacy seemed to be built on people believing that he told it like it is, his supporters sure do seem to not give a shit about the actual things that he's actually said.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 11, 2016, 01:07:11 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 11, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 11, 2016, 02:28:50 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.

As much as people would like to think that, I think it's time to get real.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 11, 2016, 02:35:46 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.

As much as people would like to think that, I think it's time to get real.

It's really just about NAFTA and jobs, dudes.  Stop bringing race into this, you reverse racists. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mattstick on November 11, 2016, 02:39:31 PM
http://livebloggingmydescentintomadness.tumblr.com/post/152983646355/i-do-take-some-small-cold-bitter-satisfaction-in

I do take some small, cold, bitter satisfaction in one thing, and that’s the fact that Trump is going to be absolutely fucking miserable for the next four years.

He’s an entertainer and an attention whore, not a public servant. He wants to be on TV and in front of crowds, not actually working a difficult, grueling, stressful job he can’t opt out of. He’s going to have to sit through SO many meetings, be forced to read SO many briefings, get shoehorned into serious business all day every day, without crowds to perform for, and he’s going to hate Every. Single. Minute.

And then, when he doesn’t deliver on his promises, when he doesn’t build the wall or create jobs or make people rich, when it becomes clear how incompetent and buffoonish he is, the country and all his supporters will turn on him. They’re gonna start blaming him for everything, and those crowds that cheered for him are going to start booing. He’ll be humiliated at every turn, and leave office with the lowest approval rating ever, and he’ll be universally despised.

Because if he’d lost to Hillary, he would have played the martyr forever, called everything rigged, and had a cushy gig on Fox News complaining every day about how he would have done it better. But now he’s going to have to actually WORK, he’s going to be forced to deal with RESPONSIBILITIES, while surrounded by people who hate him and don’t respect him, people vastly more intelligent and competent than him, and he will be exposed as a loser. And then, we’ll fire him. He’ll go down as the worst president in history. And he’ll have no one to blame but himself.

I know this isn’t much against the fear of what’s going to happen, but friends, hear me. We are going to make Donald Trump’s life a living nightmare, and I for one take immense pleasure from that.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: westcider on November 11, 2016, 03:02:35 PM
and along the way, those of his supporters that actually are racist misogynistic etc terrible people will come out of the shadows  and expose themselves as such, making it much easier to deal with them
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 11, 2016, 03:12:24 PM
I was totally caught off guard at the grocery last night...
I tend to eat pretty healthy, mostly proteins and veggies... most things I buy say organic on them and are bought because of the small list of ingredients.

checking out last night, after going to the gym, the guy behind me remarks, "you must be one of those feminist, liberal hippies... you must be super upset over the election. Too bad your lying lady just couldn't beat our good man." I expected something along the lines of 'O'Doyle rules' after that.
I stared at the checkout lady and thanked her for ringing me up, wished her a good night, and started to walk away. I then became the arrogant daddy's girl who does yoga and doesn't pay for anything when he thought I couldn't hear him.

maybe I just noticed it for the first time after reading all these horrible things in the past few days and people have always grumbled at me... or maybe it's never happened before. I don't know.
I'm now a super uncomfortable American... for everyone. I knew Ohio and I would eventually not see eye to eye... I just didn't expect it this soon.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 11, 2016, 03:19:35 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/10/501610842/trump-team-promises-to-dismantle-dodd-frank-bank-regulations

Buckle up, people.  A shit storm is on the horizon.

Dodd-Frank hasn't been very effective IMO at getting to the root cause of the problems that contributed to the financial crisis. Like most wide sweeping regulation, that doesn't mean all components are bad, but, on balance, I think it's been a net drag. However, Trump has also suggested bringing back Glass-Steagall. Now, I don't personally believe G-S caused the crisis (I'm in the minority in that view, even with some very smart banking regulation people I know/follow), but if you could trade D-F for G-S, would you

It's not worth pondering, honestly.  I'll humor you and say that if we could keep the CFPB as it stands and reinstate GS, I might compromise there.  But it doesn't matter.  Who knows what that clown really wants to do and, in any case, Congress will never go along.  All they'll do is gut DF and move on to the next thing.  I mean, do you really see Congressional leadership holding a vote on a new and effective GS?

Sure, I could see something like Sherrod and Wyden or Warner working with any number of Republicans on the Senate Finace Committee - Grassley, Crapo, Portman, Toomey all come to mind - to get some kind of compromise that rolls back much of D-F in return for reinstatement of G-S. Putting that into practice is likely much harder to do. But if the ultimate goal of D-F is to end TBTF (which it absolutely does not do), G-S reinstatement would be a far more effective lever to pull and I don't know why they wouldn't go for it.

But here's what I find curious about your response: you say it doesn't matter cause it's not politically tenable. I don't fully disagree with that statement, but a couple of pages ago you were all fired up about the myriad of politically impossible policies a Trump administration would entail. Granted, these are all hypotheticals and yes we do not know what he is going to do and yes, the prospect of a single party gov't is terrifying to my independent ass. All I'm saying is it's not all shitstorms and baby carcasses. In fact, I'd argue the prospect for meaningful financial reform will be greater in Jan 2017 than it has been for a long time, in no small part because of the GOP pigheadish stubborness to cede any ground to this president (I'm sure we'd disagree on the reasons for that stubborness tho, but that's a whole nother story).

I made that post on election night, and I was highly emotional.  That being said, I'm only making excuses for the slightly obnoxious tone of it, not the list itself (http://week4paug.net/index.php?topic=22554.msg805847#msg805847). 

So, I'll tell ya what...let's remember this conversation and every time Trump and the Republicans hit up my list, I'll give this a told-you-so-bump.  You go ahead and do the same every time Trump and the Republicans regulate the banks. 

(Looks like Medicare might be first (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/11/11/is-paul-ryan-already-eyeing-medicare-cuts/) on my list)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 11, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8oh4iiHI11rxee4yo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 11, 2016, 03:25:55 PM
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8oh4iiHI11rxee4yo1_500.gif)

THANKS  :roll: :wink:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 11, 2016, 03:27:02 PM
I was totally caught off guard at the grocery last night...
I tend to eat pretty healthy, mostly proteins and veggies... most things I buy say organic on them and are bought because of the small list of ingredients.

checking out last night, after going to the gym, the guy behind me remarks, "you must be one of those feminist, liberal hippies... you must be super upset over the election. Too bad your lying lady just couldn't beat our good man." I expected something along the lines of 'O'Doyle rules' after that.
I stared at the checkout lady and thanked her for ringing me up, wished her a good night, and started to walk away. I then became the arrogant daddy's girl who does yoga and doesn't pay for anything when he thought I couldn't hear him.

maybe I just noticed it for the first time after reading all these horrible things in the past few days and people have always grumbled at me... or maybe it's never happened before. I don't know.
I'm now a super uncomfortable American... for everyone. I knew Ohio and I would eventually not see eye to eye... I just didn't expect it this soon.

Columbus and the Northeast metro areas are the only things keeping this shithole from becoming Alabama North.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 11, 2016, 03:48:52 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.

As much as people would like to think that, I think it's time to get real.

It's really just about NAFTA and jobs, dudes.  Stop bringing race into this, you reverse racists.

Not sure exactly who you guys are lampooning. Every thinking person who's weighed in on the election here and elsewhere freely acknowledges that there are a terrifying number ("a hell of a lot," if you prefer) of racists and bigots out there and a great many of them cast votes for Trump.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: alcoholandcoffeebeans on November 11, 2016, 03:50:59 PM
I was totally caught off guard at the grocery last night...
I tend to eat pretty healthy, mostly proteins and veggies... most things I buy say organic on them and are bought because of the small list of ingredients.

checking out last night, after going to the gym, the guy behind me remarks, "you must be one of those feminist, liberal hippies... you must be super upset over the election. Too bad your lying lady just couldn't beat our good man." I expected something along the lines of 'O'Doyle rules' after that.
I stared at the checkout lady and thanked her for ringing me up, wished her a good night, and started to walk away. I then became the arrogant daddy's girl who does yoga and doesn't pay for anything when he thought I couldn't hear him.

maybe I just noticed it for the first time after reading all these horrible things in the past few days and people have always grumbled at me... or maybe it's never happened before. I don't know.
I'm now a super uncomfortable American... for everyone. I knew Ohio and I would eventually not see eye to eye... I just didn't expect it this soon.

Columbus and the Northeast metro areas are the only things keeping this shithole from becoming Alabama North.

...yes. I'm learning. not that KY was/is any better. just feels more like home on that side of the river, still.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: PIE-GUY on November 11, 2016, 03:53:33 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.

As much as people would like to think that, I think it's time to get real.

It's really just about NAFTA and jobs, dudes.  Stop bringing race into this, you reverse racists.

Not sure exactly who you guys are lampooning. Every thinking person who's weighed in on the election here and elsewhere freely acknowledges that there are a terrifying number ("a hell of a lot," if you prefer) of racists and bigots out there and a great many of them cast votes for Trump.

The problem is, where previous Repub candidates have "dog whistled" some racist issues to appease the base, Trump used an NFL refs whistle that could be heard from the cheap seats.

That's really why these racists feel emboldened post-election.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: ytowndan on November 11, 2016, 04:05:40 PM
I was totally caught off guard at the grocery last night...
I tend to eat pretty healthy, mostly proteins and veggies... most things I buy say organic on them and are bought because of the small list of ingredients.

checking out last night, after going to the gym, the guy behind me remarks, "you must be one of those feminist, liberal hippies... you must be super upset over the election. Too bad your lying lady just couldn't beat our good man." I expected something along the lines of 'O'Doyle rules' after that.
I stared at the checkout lady and thanked her for ringing me up, wished her a good night, and started to walk away. I then became the arrogant daddy's girl who does yoga and doesn't pay for anything when he thought I couldn't hear him.

maybe I just noticed it for the first time after reading all these horrible things in the past few days and people have always grumbled at me... or maybe it's never happened before. I don't know.
I'm now a super uncomfortable American... for everyone. I knew Ohio and I would eventually not see eye to eye... I just didn't expect it this soon.

Columbus and the Northeast metro areas are the only things keeping this shithole from becoming Alabama North.

...yes. I'm learning. not that KY was/is any better. just feels more like home on that side of the river, still.

Yeah, I hear you.  On the bright side, you're here now.  We can use all the sane and bright minds we can get!   :beers:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: emay on November 11, 2016, 04:19:56 PM
Enjoyed this one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/11/if-you-voted-for-trump-because-hes-anti-establishment-guess-what-you-got-conned/
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: mbw on November 11, 2016, 04:41:28 PM
yeah starting to sound like a pretty racist and xenophobic country we live in. These trump supporters man......


https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.ee3l6g3no

Along with a Saudi student at U of Wisconsin that got beaten to death last night for no apparent reason

no, there is no racism.  these people just like trumps health care plan.

As much as people would like to think that, I think it's time to get real.

It's really just about NAFTA and jobs, dudes.  Stop bringing race into this, you reverse racists.

Not sure exactly who you guys are lampooning. Every thinking person who's weighed in on the election here and elsewhere freely acknowledges that there are a terrifying number ("a hell of a lot," if you prefer) of racists and bigots out there and a great many of them cast votes for Trump.

Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 11, 2016, 04:58:06 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.  but I called you ignorant, so it is all good.  :wink:

I said my peace.  I got frustrated.  I got over it.
I am who I am.  I am always going to say what I think even if I know it is 10 against 1.  I say what I think is right and I still firmly believe everything I typed in this thread (except for you being ignorant).
I never regret speaking my mind and don't really care if anyone finds me to be a bigot or racist.  to my knowledge, no one who actually knows me feels that way.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 11, 2016, 05:03:56 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.  but I called you ignorant, so it is all good.  :wink:

I said my peace.  I got frustrated.  I got over it.
I am who I am.  I am always going to say what I think even if I know it is 10 against 1.  I say what I think is right and I still firmly believe everything I typed in this thread (except for you being ignorant).
I never regret speaking my mind and don't really care if anyone finds me to be a bigot or racist.  to my knowledge, no one who actually knows me feels that way.

I appreciate your point of view, even if I rarely agree with it. 

I think it's the dismissal of differing points of view that lead to the rise of Trump in the first place. 

It's clear to me that those of us on the left would do well to listen to the complaints of the working class folks who supported him.  While I don't agree with their votes, I have no doubt that their pain and frustration with our government is justified. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 11, 2016, 05:10:10 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.  but I called you ignorant, so it is all good.  :wink:

I said my peace.  I got frustrated.  I got over it.
I am who I am.  I am always going to say what I think even if I know it is 10 against 1.  I say what I think is right and I still firmly believe everything I typed in this thread (except for you being ignorant).
I never regret speaking my mind and don't really care if anyone finds me to be a bigot or racist.  to my knowledge, no one who actually knows me feels that way.

I appreciate your point of view, even if I rarely agree with it. 

I think it's the dismissal of differing points of view that lead to the rise of Trump in the first place. 

It's clear to me that those of us on the left would do well to listen to the complaints of the working class folks who supported him.  While I don't agree with their votes, I have no doubt that their pain and frustration with our government is justified.
thanks man.  my problem is that I need to stop after 2 posts.  I can never get that part right.  :-D

I know you didn't say it but I just want to be absolutely clear.  I don't support trump.  it is not that I agree with what he says or does, I just am scared that we have a President who doesn't have any political experience or even desires to act like a politician.

I think it was Dan that said it (and probably everyone).  I just hope this wakes up both parties.  I think both parties need to realize how split the country is.

last point.  keep in mind that I live in one of the most liberal states in the country.  I'm a liberal in 45 of the 50 states.  we just happen to have a lot of the social issues figured out in this state already.  I tend to turn my attention toward other issues.  I know some on here don't agree with that, but that is ok.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 11, 2016, 06:03:40 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.  but I called you ignorant, so it is all good.  :wink:

I said my peace.  I got frustrated.  I got over it.
I am who I am.  I am always going to say what I think even if I know it is 10 against 1.  I say what I think is right and I still firmly believe everything I typed in this thread (except for you being ignorant).
I never regret speaking my mind and don't really care if anyone finds me to be a bigot or racist.  to my knowledge, no one who actually knows me feels that way.

I appreciate your point of view, even if I rarely agree with it. 

I think it's the dismissal of differing points of view that lead to the rise of Trump in the first place. 

It's clear to me that those of us on the left would do well to listen to the complaints of the working class folks who supported him.  While I don't agree with their votes, I have no doubt that their pain and frustration with our government is justified.
Of course it's justified, but the problem is theyve all been munipulated through fear and hatred propoganda into believeing that voting Republican is the solution to their "pain and frustration" when in fact it is the fucking cause, lmao.
Seriously i have zero sympathy here. -Shoot, i'm white and living below the poverty line so techincially i'm one of that demographic. These people are asking for an economic policy that only benefits the .1% They are fucked beyond belief now and they wont even be able to buy Haterade anymore without their food stamps, lol.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 11, 2016, 06:10:44 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.

Not my intent!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: DoW on November 11, 2016, 06:27:37 PM


Don't call bvaz a non-thinking person, jeez.  :wink:
it is kind of what he did.

Not my intent!
I was just kiding around.  only good people here.  no bad intentions.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Bobafett on November 11, 2016, 07:40:57 PM
I just lost a giant post of my pocket change on this subject.  Damn pocket computer and sausage fingers!  Is that a sign?
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 11, 2016, 09:43:50 PM
The working class thing makes for an interesting talking point and there is obviously something to it but, according to exit polling, Hillary won voters making less than 50k.

Data:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=0
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: Hicks on November 11, 2016, 10:42:52 PM
The working class thing makes for an interesting talking point and there is obviously something to it but, according to exit polling, Hillary won voters making less than 50k.

Data:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=0

Yeah I guess I should have specified that I meant white, working class folks.  Overlay race on the income demographics and I'm sure the numbers shift considerably. 
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: gah on November 12, 2016, 11:29:02 AM
I was totally caught off guard at the grocery last night...
I tend to eat pretty healthy, mostly proteins and veggies... most things I buy say organic on them and are bought because of the small list of ingredients.

checking out last night, after going to the gym, the guy behind me remarks, "you must be one of those feminist, liberal hippies... you must be super upset over the election. Too bad your lying lady just couldn't beat our good man." I expected something along the lines of 'O'Doyle rules' after that.
I stared at the checkout lady and thanked her for ringing me up, wished her a good night, and started to walk away. I then became the arrogant daddy's girl who does yoga and doesn't pay for anything when he thought I couldn't hear him.

maybe I just noticed it for the first time after reading all these horrible things in the past few days and people have always grumbled at me... or maybe it's never happened before. I don't know.
I'm now a super uncomfortable American... for everyone. I knew Ohio and I would eventually not see eye to eye... I just didn't expect it this soon.

Welcome to 'murica!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 14, 2016, 03:53:14 PM
Clear-headed, intelligent, non-partisan analysis (as usual) in Dan Carlin's post-election episode of Common Sense (http://www.dancarlin.com/common-sense-home-landing-page/). Podcast fans are invited to check it out.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VA $l!m on November 14, 2016, 10:17:55 PM
on the plus side i'm sorta glad to be back on the counter culture side of things again.
was  getting some nice sympathetic flirty vibes from all the chicas at the market today.
maybe these milenial hipsters will finally learn what it really means not to be mainstream too.
definitely should provide from some real revloutionary art, music, and literature for a change.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: runawayjimbo on November 15, 2016, 09:17:41 AM
Clear-headed, intelligent, non-partisan analysis (as usual) in Dan Carlin's post-election episode of Common Sense (http://www.dancarlin.com/common-sense-home-landing-page/). Podcast fans are invited to check it out.

Downloading now. Thanks.

on the plus side i'm sorta glad to be back on the counter culture side of things again.
was  getting some nice sympathetic flirty vibes from all the chicas at the market today.
maybe these milenial hipsters will finally learn what it really means not to be mainstream too.
definitely should provide from some real revloutionary art, music, and literature for a change.

That's the spirit!
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: VDB on November 15, 2016, 09:52:18 AM
definitely should provide from some real revloutionary art, music, and literature for a change.

Heh, I (optimistically) reached a similar conclusion last week. Not necessarily because of revolutionary, 60s-style angst but maybe simply from people now having more free time on account of having to keep their eyes off the news for their own sanity's sake.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: rowjimmy on November 15, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
definitely should provide from some real revloutionary art, music, and literature for a change.

Heh, I (optimistically) reached a similar conclusion last week. Not necessarily because of revolutionary, 60s-style angst but maybe simply from people now having more free time on account of having to keep their eyes off the news for their own sanity's sake.

Already got two songs down since Tuesday.
Title: Re: 2016 Presidential General Election
Post by: GBL on August 28, 2017, 11:42:39 AM
Great article about the election, but more specifically the culture of the United States.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166711