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Offline phil

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #90 on: July 06, 2011, 07:09:31 PM »
I hate every band except phish.
sure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

Hey, I don't know anything. Please help.

Online Hicks

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #91 on: July 06, 2011, 07:15:46 PM »
My popcorn brain keeps me from being able to read any post longer than "This".
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

Offline kellerb

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #92 on: July 06, 2011, 07:17:20 PM »
My popcorn brain keeps me from being able to read any post longer than "This".

THAT

Offline phil

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #93 on: July 06, 2011, 08:12:38 PM »
I did not discover Phish until 2006. I believe the NYE '95 and Island Tour releases were around this time because a lot of people were talking about them and I decided to check them out

Me either! I remember waiting til my parents went to sleep, then I'd sneak out of the house to smoke weed and listen to 12-31-95 on my car stereo. High school was a blast.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 10:09:55 AM by phil »
sure we tend to ramble, but that was a 3 page off topic tangent on crack and doses for breakfast?

Hey, I don't know anything. Please help.

Offline runawayjimbo

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #94 on: July 06, 2011, 08:26:19 PM »
I did not discover Phish until 2006. I believe the NYE '95 and Island Tour releases were around this time because a lot of people were talking about them and I decided to check them out

Me either! I remember waiting til my parents went to sleep, then I'd sneak out of the house to smoke weed and listen to 12-31-85 on my car stereo. High school was a blast.

Sneak out? Amateur. My brother and I used to hang out our windows and fire up the tin foil bowl. Stay classy, San Diego.

Offline kellerb

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #95 on: July 06, 2011, 08:34:46 PM »
I did not discover Phish until 2006. I believe the NYE '95 and Island Tour releases were around this time because a lot of people were talking about them and I decided to check them out

Me either! I remember waiting til my parents went to sleep, then I'd sneak out of the house to smoke weed and listen to 12-31-85 on my car stereo. High school was a blast.

That's some strong high school weed

Offline postjack

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #96 on: July 06, 2011, 09:05:50 PM »
I think the demographic and the overall philosophy of the crowd impacts the band's playing directly. <snip>

you know for a long time I've been flirting with the idea that Phish is way more like Panic now in terms of their live shows, the difference being Panic knows how to play proper segues. :hereitisyousentimentalbastard

Being sober at shows I hope I am in a good position to gauge the crowds energy, and the reasoning running through Sophist's post is absolutely correct: people go apeshit for the rawk, and appear more chill or even outright disinterested in the jammier parts. For example, there were many times this past weekend I found myself screaming at the band when a sick jam would start, or any of the band members would make a choice that excited me (page joining trey in this plinko jam during the golden age I'm listening to right now come to mind), and I might get an askew glance or two, or a look of confusion from another phan, not totally sure why i was shouting with joy when there was no epic rawk peak going on.

I have literally two shows of 1.0 experience in 2000, so I'm in no position to judge "how it was" during 1.0, and even the few 2.0 shows I caught I was way to fucked up to make a real call. Maybe the masses always dug the rawk jam, and the extended improvisation was always just for the super phan.

One thing I'm sure of is that the 'paug does not an accurate cross section of the phan base make. The older heads I know who did tour a lot in the mid to late 90s think Phish is playing awesome right now, and they express very little concern for the lack of jamming. I think most people are just stoked Phish is playing shows and getting most of the notes right, and are happy to be at the party.

I will say this: when I'm at a Phish show and the lights go down, I still get this feeling like anything is possible. Tech rehearsals and the few extended improvisations this summer prove that jamming is still possible. The only question left is do you have the patience to wait for it to happen?

I have the patience because I like the party! :banana:

I hate every band except phish.
::cancels summer Phish show plans to achieve psychedelic warrior status::

Offline mbw

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2011, 12:17:00 AM »
Before I get to the meat of the question, I have to lol at gumbo, playing vet to some teenagers.
Of all the people to give young kids grief for being excited about songs that they heard at a show. 
Gaaaaaah, omgwtfzipzapdoodaa…….payjor………..etc.  “I don’t know how many times ive seen them,” sure dude. 
I’ll tell you… a handful of 3.0.

Another big lol at the fact that you were disappointed in these ‘kids’ for not being able to tell you that they were playing 46 Days, when you didn’t know yourself.

Anyway, I think the theory that phish is playing like they do, because the whole crowd is ‘kidz that luv rawk peak’, is utter bullshit.  There have always been young kids at shows, always.  I was one, you were one, we all were one.   Did you know the entire phish catalog at your first show?  Doubt it, unless your first was 09 or on.  Does mike go out on his cart and report back to trey, “lots of young kids out there, I bet they want to hear rock peaks!”  No, that doesn’t even make sense.  Younger folks coming to shows who may not know that much about them know they are supposed be jam kings;  they are not infamous for songs like zero.

Since when do ‘kids want phish rock peaks?’  it’s a made up dichotomy.  Plenty of other rock bands out there for that fix.  They are startup hippie kids who want to hear the legendary phish do some legendary things.

Does phish  feed off audience energy?  Of course.  Any performer on any  stage ever has.  Do you think trey can see a handful of people walking to the bathroom at any point in any night when he steps out of the comfort zone and thinks, “well, THAT dude is going to piss, better peak this shit so he wont leave!”  No.  that’s just as stupid.  Audience reaction happens during peaks naturally, always has.  When they jam is when the audience gets quiet and boogies.  I haven’t seen a shortage of boogieing in 3.0, except maybe during TTE, which is why its on the shelf.  I really think its just the way trey wants to play right now.

Phish jams have always come to a peak.  Its their thing.  One of my fav yem’s, 12/31/93, is straight peakage.  Read through some of my show club reviews, especially in my fav year of ’95, and you will read me say, “another false peak” quite often. 

Imo, they didn’t want to pick up where they left off, in drug induced drawn out jams that didn’t go anywhere.  They went back to square one, the drawing board,  ie lots of songs, rocked hard, with glimpses of big jams, and build on that for when it feels right.  Trey has said the same recently in respects to getting back to basics.  And as far as his other quotes about ‘not wanting to become a caricature or nostalgia act,' that was the voice of an addict grasping for things to blame on why his life had become unmanageable and he had to quit because it was all blowing up in his face.

Phish is not a nostalgia act.  They write new tunes, play variations on old ones every night, find inspiration in other bands and play their tunes, have a blast, and still throw a big party everynight , like they have been doing since their first.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 12:23:35 AM by mirthbeatenworker »

Offline Multibeast12

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2011, 01:16:22 AM »
 :clap: To all that have participated and have kept this civil and very interesting. I personally have to agree a little bit with everybody. I love going to the shows. They are just a fun ass time. and the peaks are fun. but i also think that although this new direction of the band isn't that bad it's not 95. Shit thought who doesn't change over time. if you don't try and reinvent yourself as a band you just end up like fucking Judas Priest. and they fucking blow. So even though this current Phish is not the jammed out Stuff we love, they are in a way reinventing what they once did.

 I think they should start listening to each other first. I wouldn't mind short tight jams if they were listening to each other and playing them well. BUt they still just don't listen. In that interview with Trey he says how they should start doing the listening exercises again. I couldn't agree more so. As a musician, listening to and feeling out what your other band mates are doing is the most important part. even if your not doing an intricate solo. just paying chords, locking up, knowing when to stop and when to speed up and all that shit is very important and to me is a little more important then dropping huge 20+ jams every night. I mean, i wouldn't mind that, but i wanna hear them listening to each other. 

Offline cactusfan

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2011, 02:24:54 AM »
Before I get to the meat of the question, I have to lol at gumbo, playing vet to some teenagers.
Of all the people to give young kids grief for being excited about songs that they heard at a show. 
Gaaaaaah, omgwtfzipzapdoodaa…….payjor………..etc.  “I don’t know how many times ive seen them,” sure dude. 
I’ll tell you… a handful of 3.0.

Another big lol at the fact that you were disappointed in these ‘kids’ for not being able to tell you that they were playing 46 Days, when you didn’t know yourself.

Anyway, I think the theory that phish is playing like they do, because the whole crowd is ‘kidz that luv rawk peak’, is utter bullshit.  There have always been young kids at shows, always.  I was one, you were one, we all were one.   Did you know the entire phish catalog at your first show?  Doubt it, unless your first was 09 or on.  Does mike go out on his cart and report back to trey, “lots of young kids out there, I bet they want to hear rock peaks!”  No, that doesn’t even make sense.  Younger folks coming to shows who may not know that much about them know they are supposed be jam kings;  they are not infamous for songs like zero.

Since when do ‘kids want phish rock peaks?’  it’s a made up dichotomy.  Plenty of other rock bands out there for that fix.  They are startup hippie kids who want to hear the legendary phish do some legendary things.

Does phish  feed off audience energy?  Of course.  Any performer on any  stage ever has.  Do you think trey can see a handful of people walking to the bathroom at any point in any night when he steps out of the comfort zone and thinks, “well, THAT dude is going to piss, better peak this shit so he wont leave!”  No.  that’s just as stupid.  Audience reaction happens during peaks naturally, always has.  When they jam is when the audience gets quiet and boogies.  I haven’t seen a shortage of boogieing in 3.0, except maybe during TTE, which is why its on the shelf.  I really think its just the way trey wants to play right now.

Phish jams have always come to a peak.  Its their thing.  One of my fav yem’s, 12/31/93, is straight peakage.  Read through some of my show club reviews, especially in my fav year of ’95, and you will read me say, “another false peak” quite often. 

Imo, they didn’t want to pick up where they left off, in drug induced drawn out jams that didn’t go anywhere.  They went back to square one, the drawing board,  ie lots of songs, rocked hard, with glimpses of big jams, and build on that for when it feels right.  Trey has said the same recently in respects to getting back to basics.  And as far as his other quotes about ‘not wanting to become a caricature or nostalgia act,' that was the voice of an addict grasping for things to blame on why his life had become unmanageable and he had to quit because it was all blowing up in his face.

Phish is not a nostalgia act.  They write new tunes, play variations on old ones every night, find inspiration in other bands and play their tunes, have a blast, and still throw a big party everynight , like they have been doing since their first.

well said, sir.

Offline guyforget

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #100 on: July 07, 2011, 03:16:46 AM »
the crowd is no older or younger or more or less attentive than it ever was once they started playing large amphitheaters and arenas on the reg. 

people like us have always been the exception. 

half the time trey's got blinding lights shining in his eyes, if youre not in the first few rows he aint watching you break it down during tweeprise or walk off for a beer during the horseforce.  and if you are in the first few rows, he's only watching you break it down during tweeprise if youve got breasts.   :evil:

Offline alcoholandcoffeebeans

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2011, 08:45:31 AM »
the crowd is no older or younger or more or less attentive than it ever was once they started playing large amphitheaters and arenas on the reg. 

people like us have always been the exception. 

half the time trey's got blinding lights shining in his eyes, if youre not in the first few rows he aint watching you break it down during tweeprise or walk off for a beer during the horseforce.  and if you are in the first few rows, he's only watching you break it down during tweeprise if youve got breasts.   :evil:

like we care...  :roll:  i for one, wouldn't  :-D


Before I get to the meat of the question, I have to lol at gumbo, playing vet to some teenagers.
Of all the people to give young kids grief for being excited about songs that they heard at a show. 
Gaaaaaah, omgwtfzipzapdoodaa…….payjor………..etc.  “I don’t know how many times ive seen them,” sure dude. 
I’ll tell you… a handful of 3.0.

Another big lol at the fact that you were disappointed in these ‘kids’ for not being able to tell you that they were playing 46 Days, when you didn’t know yourself.

Anyway, I think the theory that phish is playing like they do, because the whole crowd is ‘kidz that luv rawk peak’, is utter bullshit.  There have always been young kids at shows, always.  I was one, you were one, we all were one.   Did you know the entire phish catalog at your first show?  Doubt it, unless your first was 09 or on.  Does mike go out on his cart and report back to trey, “lots of young kids out there, I bet they want to hear rock peaks!”  No, that doesn’t even make sense.  Younger folks coming to shows who may not know that much about them know they are supposed be jam kings;  they are not infamous for songs like zero.

Since when do ‘kids want phish rock peaks?’  it’s a made up dichotomy.  Plenty of other rock bands out there for that fix.  They are startup hippie kids who want to hear the legendary phish do some legendary things.

Does phish  feed off audience energy?  Of course.  Any performer on any  stage ever has.  Do you think trey can see a handful of people walking to the bathroom at any point in any night when he steps out of the comfort zone and thinks, “well, THAT dude is going to piss, better peak this shit so he wont leave!”  No.  that’s just as stupid.  Audience reaction happens during peaks naturally, always has.  When they jam is when the audience gets quiet and boogies.  I haven’t seen a shortage of boogieing in 3.0, except maybe during TTE, which is why its on the shelf.  I really think its just the way trey wants to play right now.

Phish jams have always come to a peak.  Its their thing.  One of my fav yem’s, 12/31/93, is straight peakage.  Read through some of my show club reviews, especially in my fav year of ’95, and you will read me say, “another false peak” quite often. 

Imo, they didn’t want to pick up where they left off, in drug induced drawn out jams that didn’t go anywhere.  They went back to square one, the drawing board,  ie lots of songs, rocked hard, with glimpses of big jams, and build on that for when it feels right.  Trey has said the same recently in respects to getting back to basics.  And as far as his other quotes about ‘not wanting to become a caricature or nostalgia act,' that was the voice of an addict grasping for things to blame on why his life had become unmanageable and he had to quit because it was all blowing up in his face.

Phish is not a nostalgia act.  They write new tunes, play variations on old ones every night, find inspiration in other bands and play their tunes, have a blast, and still throw a big party everynight , like they have been doing since their first.

well said, sir.

i concur.


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Offline sophist

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2011, 08:46:06 AM »
I think it's fucking hilarious that two people posted Trey isn't watching the crowd after I post an interview with Trey and he exclaims he does watch the crowd.  That's what he has always done.  From the moment I first laid my eyes on Trey at a show to this very point in time that's who I watch at Phish.  Never anyone else.  His trademark move is picking one person in the back of the room and playing to them, and the theory is that if you get that person off, then you get everyone who is in front of that person.  This is what Trey does fellas.  It's what separates him from 99% of the other guitarists out there.  He understands how to play the room, not just play the music.  Playing the room is one of the best tactics you can learn as a musician.  You read the crowd and you react to it.  For the garden run, I sat with Scott, Dave, Wendell, George, Kelly, and JJ, behind the stage each night.  I watched Trey from behind (no homo), and I could see him looking towards the back of the Garden.  I could see him scanning the crowd as he would turn his head.  More than anything, I could see the fucking crowd reacting, and I watched the crowd, I studied how he was trying to control the crowd.   

Trey quote on crowd watching: 

Quote
TA: Today what I do is—I do this every night we play—I have a little quiet moment where I picture some guy having a fight with his girlfriend, getting into his car—the battery’s dead—then he gets to the parking lot and it’s full. Meets up with his friends. Comes into the show. I try to picture this one person having their own experience, and I picture them way in the back of the room. And I try to remember how insignificant my experience is, and how people’s experiences with music are their own thing. We put it out there, and if it’s of service to someone, great, but I try to get away from the idea that it’s even starting from us. And when you do that listening-exercise stuff, when I actually get into a moment where I’m only listening, I find that the music gets so much… beyond us. And I can tell that from the reaction I hear from the audience. It always feels more resonant if I can get my hands off it. If all four of us were here, they’d all be saying the same thing. It’s great as long as you listen to anybody but yourself. Anything but yourself.
from here


I think the demographic and the overall philosophy of the crowd impacts the band's playing directly. <snip>

you know for a long time I've been flirting with the idea that Phish is way more like Panic now in terms of their live shows, the difference being Panic knows how to play proper segues. :hereitisyousentimentalbastard
It's not going to be a popular opinion, but it amazes me how phish phans that do dig this rock peak version of Phish also hate on Panic when Panic does it much better.  They're the better rock band.  What comes to my mind is seeing RJ and Blat get down to YSBG at that Charlottesville show I caught last year.  It was your typical YSBG, but they were digging and grooving the rawk funk that panic was playing, and to me, it's the same shit Phish is churning out right now.  Which is kind of why I have this theory that Phish has become this generic jam band like the rest of 'em out there. 

I'd also say that the crowds aren't the main reason for this.  Other folks are on point with them being sober, getting back to basics, etc.  It's all those things plus the crowd I think. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2011, 09:14:39 AM »
I think the demographic and the overall philosophy of the crowd impacts the band's playing directly. <snip>

you know for a long time I've been flirting with the idea that Phish is way more like Panic now in terms of their live shows, the difference being Panic knows how to play proper segues. :hereitisyousentimentalbastard
It's not going to be a popular opinion, but it amazes me how phish phans that do dig this rock peak version of Phish also hate on Panic when Panic does it much better.  They're the better rock band.  What comes to my mind is seeing RJ and Blat get down to YSBG at that Charlottesville show I caught last year.  It was your typical YSBG, but they were digging and grooving the rawk funk that panic was playing, and to me, it's the same shit Phish is churning out right now.  Which is kind of why I have this theory that Phish has become this generic jam band like the rest of 'em out there. 

Blat left early.
Intoxication drove all
my actions that night.

Have I re-listened
since I attended that show?
No int'rest at all.

Offline Nobes

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Re: some thoughts
« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2011, 09:39:33 AM »
Quote
It's not going to be a popular opinion, but it amazes me how phish phans that do dig this rock peak version of Phish also hate on Panic when Panic does it much better.  They're the better rock band.


12-02-95 Tweezer says otherwise.

P.S. '95 was full of rawk peaks, people. It's not like it was all "exploration" back then.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 09:41:07 AM by Nobes »