Where's the stage? Spurious Generalities > Politiw00kchat
2012 Election Thread
rowjimmy:
--- Quote from: V00D00BR3W on June 21, 2012, 09:32:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: rowjimmy on June 21, 2012, 08:34:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 03:17:37 AM ---Personally, I don't have anything against the Mormons (I don't necessarily believe the same things they do, but to each their own), and in fact they've done some really great things humanitarian wise over the years.
--- End quote ---
You mean like dumping millions of dollars into campaigns to prevent equal rights for homosexuals?
--- End quote ---
Someone needs to point out during this campaign that Romney donates millions to the Mormon church (and gets a tax benefit for doing so), which then turns around and spends some of that money on shit like defeating Prop 8. Someone should ask Romney if he thinks intolerance should be tax-deductible.
--- End quote ---
Bill Maher points it out all the time.
V00D00BR3W:
--- Quote from: rowjimmy on June 21, 2012, 01:08:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: V00D00BR3W on June 21, 2012, 09:32:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: rowjimmy on June 21, 2012, 08:34:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 03:17:37 AM ---Personally, I don't have anything against the Mormons (I don't necessarily believe the same things they do, but to each their own), and in fact they've done some really great things humanitarian wise over the years.
--- End quote ---
You mean like dumping millions of dollars into campaigns to prevent equal rights for homosexuals?
--- End quote ---
Someone needs to point out during this campaign that Romney donates millions to the Mormon church (and gets a tax benefit for doing so), which then turns around and spends some of that money on shit like defeating Prop 8. Someone should ask Romney if he thinks intolerance should be tax-deductible.
--- End quote ---
Bill Maher points it out all the time.
--- End quote ---
Well yes (I love me some Bill Maher re: religion) but I was hoping more like Obama himself (ain't gonna happen) or a debate moderator (too scared)...
rowjimmy:
--- Quote from: V00D00BR3W on June 21, 2012, 02:44:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: rowjimmy on June 21, 2012, 01:08:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: V00D00BR3W on June 21, 2012, 09:32:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: rowjimmy on June 21, 2012, 08:34:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 03:17:37 AM ---Personally, I don't have anything against the Mormons (I don't necessarily believe the same things they do, but to each their own), and in fact they've done some really great things humanitarian wise over the years.
--- End quote ---
You mean like dumping millions of dollars into campaigns to prevent equal rights for homosexuals?
--- End quote ---
Someone needs to point out during this campaign that Romney donates millions to the Mormon church (and gets a tax benefit for doing so), which then turns around and spends some of that money on shit like defeating Prop 8. Someone should ask Romney if he thinks intolerance should be tax-deductible.
--- End quote ---
Bill Maher points it out all the time.
--- End quote ---
Well yes (I love me some Bill Maher re: religion) but I was hoping more like Obama himself (ain't gonna happen) or a debate moderator (too scared)...
--- End quote ---
Most are too scared to open that can of worms.
ytowndan:
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 10:55:57 AM ---
--- Quote from: ytowndan on June 21, 2012, 05:38:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 03:17:37 AM ---George Bush won because the god fearing, flag waiving, religious right turned out in droves.
Mitt Romney will lose for the same reason.
Personally, I don't have anything against the Mormons (I don't necessarily believe the same things they do, but to each their own), and in fact they've done some really great things humanitarian wise over the years.
That being said, the GOP voters as a whole will feel very differently I'm sure.
There is NO WAY Condi hops on this ticket IMHO. If she does, I could feel differently. Until then, it's Obama's to lose.
--- End quote ---
I don't believe this election hangs in the hands of the religous right. These kinds of Evangelicals are, ironically, some of the most judgemental people you'll ever meet, and they certainly have their issues with people that worship the "wrong" flavor of Christ. But, while they probably won't be enthusiastic about Romney himself, they'll be totally enthuastic about anyone but Obama.
Think like one of them for a second. Do you want to vote for a Morman? Or do you want to stay home and let another vote go to Obama? I mean, Obama is the guy who allows gays to serve in the military, vowed to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act and, personally, supports same-sex marriage. He not only supports Roe v Wade, but he also wants employers to cockblock God by providing birth control (via "socialist healthcare") to good, God fearing, taxpayers. And, of course, please don't forget his homeboy Jeremiah Wright, and the "fact" that his second term is all about taking away your guns and holy books (which is "proven" because he hasn't done it yet).
When it comes down to Romney vs. Obama, there's no question about it. They're gonna side with the guy who thinks Jesus is from Missouri faster than you can say "Don't Ask Don't Tell".
--- End quote ---
This is relevant, and I honestly hadn't thought about it like that. I do think it makes the Evangelistic Righy far less likely to be excited. In the end they may end up sucking it up, and begrudgingly voting for
Romney, but I just don't see the high motivation onthe part of the GOTV campaign that they were fired up and ready to lead for GWB.
--- End quote ---
I definitely see where you're coming from. My only point is that, in this next election, many social issues hang in the balance. Far too many for them to get apathetic in November.
You mentioned their big enthusiasm for Bush, well, don't forget that a huge part of that GOTV campaign in Nov. 2004 was, in part, due to a total of 11 states that had referendums defining marriage. All eleven states gave a resounding "HELL NO!" to gay marriage. Ohio, the state that single-handedly decided the election by a measly two points, was one of them. A huge part of that massive GOTV campaign from the religious right was to "protect the sanctity of marriage" (. . . and while you're there, vote for "the good guy"). I see the same thing happening again on the religious right. This time the threat won't be widespread marriage referendums, it'll be about defeating the man who wants to destroy America's Christian values. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but I have a feeling they'll be out in full force.
I think this election is in the hands of the "swing voters" whose number one priority is how the economy should be handled, and whether the young voters are apathetic or enthusiastic.
aphineday:
--- Quote from: ytowndan on June 21, 2012, 08:11:27 PM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 10:55:57 AM ---
--- Quote from: ytowndan on June 21, 2012, 05:38:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: aphineday on June 21, 2012, 03:17:37 AM ---George Bush won because the god fearing, flag waiving, religious right turned out in droves.
Mitt Romney will lose for the same reason.
Personally, I don't have anything against the Mormons (I don't necessarily believe the same things they do, but to each their own), and in fact they've done some really great things humanitarian wise over the years.
That being said, the GOP voters as a whole will feel very differently I'm sure.
There is NO WAY Condi hops on this ticket IMHO. If she does, I could feel differently. Until then, it's Obama's to lose.
--- End quote ---
I don't believe this election hangs in the hands of the religous right. These kinds of Evangelicals are, ironically, some of the most judgemental people you'll ever meet, and they certainly have their issues with people that worship the "wrong" flavor of Christ. But, while they probably won't be enthusiastic about Romney himself, they'll be totally enthuastic about anyone but Obama.
Think like one of them for a second. Do you want to vote for a Morman? Or do you want to stay home and let another vote go to Obama? I mean, Obama is the guy who allows gays to serve in the military, vowed to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act and, personally, supports same-sex marriage. He not only supports Roe v Wade, but he also wants employers to cockblock God by providing birth control (via "socialist healthcare") to good, God fearing, taxpayers. And, of course, please don't forget his homeboy Jeremiah Wright, and the "fact" that his second term is all about taking away your guns and holy books (which is "proven" because he hasn't done it yet).
When it comes down to Romney vs. Obama, there's no question about it. They're gonna side with the guy who thinks Jesus is from Missouri faster than you can say "Don't Ask Don't Tell".
--- End quote ---
This is relevant, and I honestly hadn't thought about it like that. I do think it makes the Evangelistic Righy far less likely to be excited. In the end they may end up sucking it up, and begrudgingly voting for
Romney, but I just don't see the high motivation onthe part of the GOTV campaign that they were fired up and ready to lead for GWB.
--- End quote ---
I definitely see where you're coming from. My only point is that, in this next election, many social issues hang in the balance. Far too many for them to get apathetic in November.
You mentioned their big enthusiasm for Bush, well, don't forget that a huge part of that GOTV campaign in Nov. 2004 was, in part, due to a total of 11 states that had referendums defining marriage. All eleven states gave a resounding "HELL NO!" to gay marriage. Ohio, the state that single-handedly decided the election by a measly two points, was one of them. A huge part of that massive GOTV campaign from the religious right was to "protect the sanctity of marriage" (. . . and while you're there, vote for "the good guy"). I see the same thing happening again on the religious right. This time the threat won't be widespread marriage referendums, it'll be about defeating the man who wants to destroy America's Christian values. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but I have a feeling they'll be out in full force.
I think this election is in the hands of the "swing voters" whose number one priority is how the economy should be handled, and whether the young voters are apathetic or enthusiastic.
--- End quote ---
It's a very interesting point that you're making here, and I certainly understand where you are coming from. I guess the possibility of there being enough close minded nut jobs out there that really can't deal with some of these social issues. If that is THE sole motivating factor, Obama might be in trouble. I guess I'm just cautiously optimistic that peole will be swayed by the fact that he's not an offering paying member of their club. I hope I'm right too, but you're assessment is (unfortunately) a very real possibility as well.
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