Author Topic: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?  (Read 28404 times)

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Offline Buffalo Budd

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #690 on: October 04, 2017, 08:55:20 AM »
Are you a law abiding citizen and wish to own a gun for hunting or personal protection, How about you submit to the most basic of regulations that we require for driving a fucking car?

Take a safety course and pass a test.
Register as a gun owner.
Register your gun.
Just as we don't license tanks to regular schmoes, no military grade weapons (sorry, semi-automatic weapons also. Bambi ain't shooting back) or ammo.
Inform that regulatory body when you transfer ownership of that gun.
Regularly renew that registration and maybe pass a fucking eye test.
Risk losing that registration as a result of lawbreaking.

And to all those afraid of registration because "the government is gonna come for my guns", if you don't break the law, why would they do that?
Besides you have your guns so you play it out to the cold-dead-hands thing if that's what turns you on.


My ideal is that we buy back the guns like they did in Australia alongside this registration program.
Reduce, regulate, and educate.

ie. common sense
I suspect putin and trump have something to do with this
that's great. people are stupid.
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Offline ytowndan

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #691 on: October 04, 2017, 10:39:18 AM »
Are you a law abiding citizen and wish to own a gun for hunting or personal protection, How about you submit to the most basic of regulations that we require for driving a fucking car?

Take a safety course and pass a test.
Register as a gun owner.
Register your gun.
Just as we don't license tanks to regular schmoes, no military grade weapons (sorry, semi-automatic weapons also. Bambi ain't shooting back) or ammo.
Inform that regulatory body when you transfer ownership of that gun.
Regularly renew that registration and maybe pass a fucking eye test.
Risk losing that registration as a result of lawbreaking.

And to all those afraid of registration because "the government is gonna come for my guns", if you don't break the law, why would they do that?
Besides you have your guns so you play it out to the cold-dead-hands thing if that's what turns you on.


My ideal is that we buy back the guns like they did in Australia alongside this registration program.
Reduce, regulate, and educate.

ie. common sense

Yep. Sounds pretty sane to me. 
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Offline runawayjimbo

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #692 on: October 04, 2017, 11:25:47 AM »
so the guy makes some good points. but consider

the shooter in the Gabby Giffords case was tackled when changing his magazine. A smaller clip would have saved lives

One thing prez GWB talked about but never pursued was a "fingerprint lock" on triggers - maybe reducing stolen gun trafficking.

Prohibiting sale of after market conversion kits from semi automatic to full automatic

Prohibiting people on the no fly list to purchase guns

Prohibiting the kind of ammo supposedly used by this guy (available in a street legal AR15) the bullet can go through a wall (or a person) and still have enough force to kill someone else.

Yes, we need mental health care and a lot of things. Will all gun violence go away? never. Can we save some lives? I would bet on it

With the exception of the increasingly intrusive and infamously erroneous no-fly list (which even the ACLU opposed), these all sound reasonable enough to me. However, I am not familiar enough with the arguments against, for example, smaller magazines and fingerprint lock/smart guns to have an informed opinion. It's insane to me that these semi- to fully-auto conversions kits are so readily available and easy enough to use that a guy with no military training was able to operationalize it, and I'd think that would be a pretty easy starting point for reform (although I am not hopeful it will happen).

1. Gun License
2. Gun Registration
3. Liability Insurance

1. Don't we have that?
2. Due process says no.
3. Walk me through the thinking here. Is it that insurance would be expensive so less people could afford the guns? Seems like a pretty roundabout way to go about it. People drive without car insurance all the time; maybe we should just make murder illegal?

Bottom line: We need GUN CONTROL LAWS NOW - LOTS OF THEM!!

That's fine, but again it's hard for me to see how this prevents the problem at hand. While I share your desire to reduce the frequency of these senseless acts, I don't know how that translates into effective policy:  nearly every instance of these tragedies have been with legally purchased guns.

Take a safety course and pass a test.
Register as a gun owner.
Register your gun.
Just as we don't license tanks to regular schmoes, no military grade weapons (sorry, semi-automatic weapons also. Bambi ain't shooting back) or ammo.
Inform that regulatory body when you transfer ownership of that gun.
Regularly renew that registration and maybe pass a fucking eye test.
Risk losing that registration as a result of lawbreaking.

Again, my information on this subject is fairly limited and there is apparently a good deal of misinformation out there (e.g., the gun show "loophole" really isn't a thing; all Federal Firearm Licenseses are required to perform a background check, regardless of the venue). But AFAIK, 1, 3, 4, 5, and 7 are all currently required.

And to all those afraid of registration because "the government is gonna come for my guns", if you don't break the law, why would they do that?
Besides you have your guns so you play it out to the cold-dead-hands thing if that's what turns you on.

The registration is scary not (only) because the gov't might come from you, but also because of the ramifications if that information is breached. Equifax losing the most personal information of half the fucking country should at least give anyone pause from voluntarily signing up for any goddamned list.

Damn funny line tho.

My ideal is that we buy back the guns like they did in Australia alongside this registration program.
Reduce, regulate, and educate.

I adore Jim Jefferies a la above, but if you are advocating the Australia solution, you are effectively advocating confiscation (since the "buyback" program was mandatory). Which is a fine position to have, but one which belies your (implied) point above that gun owners are just paranoid whackjobs. Not to mention the political and constitutional unrealities.

Offline mbw

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #693 on: October 04, 2017, 11:39:34 AM »

1. Gun License
2. Gun Registration
3. Liability Insurance

1. Don't we have that?
2. Due process says no.
3. Walk me through the thinking here. Is it that insurance would be expensive so less people could afford the guns? Seems like a pretty roundabout way to go about it. People drive without car insurance all the time; maybe we should just make murder illegal?


1.  No.  A FOID card is not a license in the sense that you had to do anything other than pass a background check and pay some money.
It does not require you take a class (you know, learn how to use a gun), learn any gun safety, pass any kind of test, etc.  The period to renew is ridiculously long as well.

2.  Boo hoo

3.  The thinking is if the gun you own is used in a crime, accident, etc, the owner of said gun should be responsible for it.  If I drive drunk and kill someone, I am required to have liability insurance that will pay for damages, healthcare, etc.  Same goes with ur gun.  Yes, people drive without car insurance, and it is against the law and they will face punishment for their negligence.  Herr derr why is anything illegal jimbo?
As far as cost, it doesn't matter to me if it is a lot or a little.  Your free market will figure that out.

Offline runawayjimbo

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #694 on: October 04, 2017, 12:03:18 PM »
Your free market will figure that out.

Goddamned right
 :-P

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #695 on: October 04, 2017, 02:28:18 PM »
Laws are different everywhere but, I can buy a rifle and no one has to know. No license is required and no registration is required.

The lack of uniformity in gun laws basically makes only the loosest laws the law of the land.

You can throw your personal data argument out the window. The government keeps a ton of data on you already: Driver's License, IRS, Social Security,  what's another table?

Lastly, what I'm advocating with a buyback is not a mandatory buyback (confiscation) because folks will also have the option/opportunity to register their weapons and keep them.

Offline mbw

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #696 on: October 04, 2017, 02:45:36 PM »
Laws are different everywhere but, I can buy a rifle and no one has to know. No license is required and no registration is required.

The lack of uniformity in gun laws basically makes only the loosest laws the law of the land.


Right.  One of the main talking points of the right wing is, "look at Chicago, they have the toughest gun laws in the country but tons of gun crime."  First, the whole toughest laws thing is false.  Second, its a 15 minute drive to Indiana which has some of the loosest gun laws.  Our streets are flooded with IN guns.

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #697 on: October 04, 2017, 03:00:50 PM »
Laws are different everywhere but, I can buy a rifle and no one has to know. No license is required and no registration is required.

The lack of uniformity in gun laws basically makes only the loosest laws the law of the land.


Right.  One of the main talking points of the right wing is, "look at Chicago, they have the toughest gun laws in the country but tons of gun crime."  First, the whole toughest laws thing is false.  Second, its a 15 minute drive to Indiana which has some of the loosest gun laws.  Our streets are flooded with IN guns.

Virginia has long been the Indiana of Washington D.C.

Offline mbw

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #698 on: October 04, 2017, 04:23:10 PM »

Offline kellerb

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #699 on: October 05, 2017, 10:28:10 AM »
Dammit, stupid Indiana people I live in the same state as.

<edit> I apologize for ending a sentence with a preposition.  I'm Fucking Civilized and I should know better.

Offline runawayjimbo

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #700 on: October 05, 2017, 02:37:47 PM »
Dammit, stupid Indiana people I live in the same state as.

<edit> I apologize for ending a sentence with a preposition.  I'm Fucking Civilized and I should know better.

You're from Indiana; I'm just surprised you know what a proposition is. BUUUUURN

In other shocking news, the NRA just came out against bump stocks. Well I'll be god dammned.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-says-bump-stocks-devices-used-by-las-vegas-shooter-should-be-regulated/

Quote
NRA says bump stocks, devices used by Las Vegas shooter, should be regulated

The National Rifle Association (NRA) said in a statement Thursday that the the device the Las Vegas shooter used to convert his semi-automatic weapons to fire automatic should be subject to additional regulations.

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented," said Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's CEO, and Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action  in a joint statement.

While they said "unfortunately" the first response from some politicians has been to call for gun control, they said, "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."

A growing number of congressional Republicans have expressed that they're open to investigating the legality or even banning bump stocks.

Since the mid-1980s, machine guns that fire multiple shots with one pull of the trigger have been illegal but bump stocks, a gun accessory, is currently legal and allowed the gunman last Sunday to shoot more than 500 people at a country music festival. The shooter killed 58 people and wounded more than 500.

While Republicans, including President Trump, have dismissed the idea of tightening gun laws and have stressed that it's not the time to politicize the tragedy, some say they want to look into bump stocks and place restrictions on them.

Offline Hicks

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #701 on: October 05, 2017, 06:28:47 PM »
Of they say the intentionally vague "additional regulations" instead of the b word. 
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Offline khalpin

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #702 on: October 06, 2017, 11:45:21 AM »
Dammit, stupid Indiana people I live in the same state as.

<edit> I apologize for ending a sentence with a preposition.  I'm Fucking Civilized and I should know better.
...and knowing is half the battle.

Offline mopper_smurf

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #703 on: October 09, 2017, 01:01:08 AM »


From last night's Dutch comedy show Zondag met Lubach. Don't worry. It's in English.
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Offline emay

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Re: Gun Talk Re: have you heard about...?
« Reply #704 on: November 02, 2017, 03:15:08 PM »
as some might have heard, there was a random shooting in Thornton CO (north Denver)
Some guy just walked into a WalMart and opened fire with a handgun into the store and casually tuned around and walked out and got in his car.
Killed 2-3, I believe.

Anyways, good article on how people that drew their concealed carry guns in the store actually slowed down the investigation on tracking the actual suspect down. Get these guns off the street already! The "equipt more people with guns so they can shoot back at the shooter" argument is slowly collapsing

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/02/shoppers-pulled-weapons-walmart-shooting/