Author Topic: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68  (Read 3002 times)

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Offline sophist

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Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« on: November 01, 2006, 09:38:23 AM »
I have always been blown away by the rawness of primal dead, and pure talent of Jerry at such a young age.  A friend of mine always argues that Garcia was at his best during the late 60's and that he slowly regressed with age.  For me, 68 was the first big turning point in the Dead's career.  So let's listen and discuss. 

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3AGratefulDead%20AND%20%2Fmetadata%2Fyear%3A%221968%22

I'll start with October, it isn't a pure dead show, but the magic was in full force on this evening.

10/08/1968
http://www.archive.org/details/gd68-10-08.sbd.belaff.17691.sbeok.shnf
Clementine Jam,
Clementine Jam>
The Eleven Jam>
Death Don't Have No Mercy,
The Seven,
Dark Star Jam>
Cosmic Charlie>
Next Time You See Me Jam> Jam,
The Other One>
Jam,
Jam,
Jam,
Jam,
Prisoner Blues,
Jam

The dark star jam is very jazzy, and ahead of its time.  Garcia is on point here.  The other one is also hot.  The "jam" tracks are worth a listen and provide a hint of what 1969-1970 would evolve into in terms of sound.  This isn't a top 5 of 68, but it is a gem that has some mind melting material. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline susep

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2006, 11:12:03 AM »
I'm a fan of primal  :syf:, considering it didn't take them long to saddle up and start blowing minds.  :-o  I like a quote from Mickey Hart who said in a '69 Rolling Stone story, "We're in the transportation business.  We move minds." :-D
I counter your friends arguement by thinking Jerry peaked literally in '72.  From there it was a long slow decline w/ various outcroppings.
I downloaded 25+26April1969 from the Dead's digi vault.  B- maybe in my book, although if they had just released 26April complete w/ the Phil Zone Viola encore, A.
Clementine is an early fav. esp. the 20Jan.68 version. 
How is that Live at the Fillmore West set?

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2006, 02:43:47 PM »
very good imo.  It has a nasty dark star (very fusion esque).  Its been a while since I listened to it, I'll have to crank it up and get back to you with more details.
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline VA $l!m

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2006, 06:35:03 PM »
funny...

very often when i listen to the dead now(which is approx 3 times a day) i think of a a quote from someone who said basically the same thing-- something along the lines of  Jerry peaked in 69-guitar playing wise, and that post 69 he for the most part re-hashed licks he had played in the first 3/4 years...

sometimes i can hear this, other times i totally disagree.
though the comparison/contrast always crosses my mind.

JUST TODAY, as a matter a fact, while listening to 2-28-69's morning dew, i was really suprised to hear the moanfull-quiet licks at the end of the song>which to me was out of place for a 69 dew- and especially weird because the day prior i had been listening to 12-15-72's dew which contained very similar licks , and at that time i thought to myself that it was the earliset version i had heard them in ...

even jerry's pure country licks pop up in early versions of songs, and In my mind i always thought he really started with the blues llicks and added the pure country twang stuff ~70...

the real 'freee-jazz' modulating stuff is another point of arguement... did he really mess with this before 72>74?? ehhh... sorta...

its not that he "played every lick he would ever play" by 69, but more that his dynamic range was very well established after 69, i think...
 
the revamping of his style in 76/7, and even 85 and 89 are other great points to argue vs. this "theory" >>> his approach constantly changed over the years and many songs/solos were given completely different approaches...


very interesting ideas though, and as i said really weird to listen to so much dead that i hear licks in 70s shows that i know i heard himm cop in the late 60s first.
-I'm still walkin', so i'm sure that I can dance-

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2006, 02:48:58 PM »
well said slim.  I think his style changed over the years and in a good way. I prefer the early 70's Jerry while my buddy loves the late 60's Jerry.  I guess it is all a matter of preference.  I enjoy the jazz infused jamming and think its top notch dead. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline slslbs

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2006, 09:21:57 PM »
just found this thread :-)
Interesting comments. i'll have to cue up some 68 now.

I think "technically", ie shredding, speed, etc Jerry may have been "better" in 68/9, but I agree I like the early 70s better. The jazz infusion with some very Coltranesque jams were great (I haven't heard any like that in the 60's). Also, I think there was more emotion/soul in his playing in the early 70's.

i never noticed licks being repeated but I'll have to listen more closely. the use of repeated "jamming sequences" is interesting though, ie eyes jam in Dancin, UJB jam in china>rider in 73 (also heard in DS 5/72, i think 5/23 but may be 5/25)

btw should there be a child board devoted to  :syf:?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 09:26:20 PM by slslbs »
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2006, 11:50:11 PM »

btw should there be a child board devoted to  :syf:?
yes, and it will be the new main board of the paug :evil:
we will tell people to kys if they don't like  :syf:
terms like pillow biter, n00b, and fag will appear in every post
we will hate the world and be bitter about change


http://week4paug.net/index.php/topic,4514.0.html
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline slslbs

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2006, 03:41:03 AM »
 :-D :-D :evil:
"toss away stuff you don't need in the end
but keep what's important, and know who's your friend"
"It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2006, 08:05:54 PM »
I still haven't figured out why this is in the 'On Tour' forum.

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2006, 09:39:07 PM »
well if you look at the sub text on the main menu, it says past, present, and future  :wink:
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 09:41:26 PM by phan003 »
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline mattstick

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2006, 02:40:10 AM »
I still haven't figured out why this is in the 'On Tour' forum.

I can't figure out the Subject of this thread

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2006, 07:05:28 AM »
the 'past' thing is tenuous but this:

I can't figure out the Subject of this thread

Is dead on.

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2006, 08:37:11 AM »
the subject is early Grateful Dead.  The title of the thread is a reference to how jerry came up with the name Grateful Dead.  He was high on DMT (which has a nick name of Dimitri) and flipping through a dictionary, saw the word grateful and then picked dead as the next word.  The focus of the thread is to discuss how the dead's sound evolved from 66-68.  The first post of the thread is a highlight 68 show, which features a good dark star jam.
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline mattstick

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2006, 08:43:08 AM »

I've never heard DMT called Dimitri, and I'm pretty sure you don't have that story straight.

The name came "Grateful Dead" came from a Dictionary of Folklore, not a standard dictionary.

Offline sophist

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Re: Ole Dimitri and the birth of the THAT SOUND: GD 66-68
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2006, 08:46:12 AM »
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml
it lists the nick names at the top.

I've never heard DMT called Dimitri, and I'm pretty sure you don't have that story straight.

The name came "Grateful Dead" came from a Dictionary of Folklore, not a standard dictionary.
I was told the story a while back, I haven't read a first hand account of it yet, so I must be wrong if it is a folklore dictionary.
my bad. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!