Author Topic: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence  (Read 2837 times)

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Offline sophist

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http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/washington/washington/entries/2006/11/15/carville_says_d.html

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By Scott Shepard  | Wednesday, November 15, 2006, 12:00 PM

Democratic strategist James Carville says his party should dump Howard Dean as chairman of the Democratic Party because of incompetence.

Carville, during coffee and rolls with political reporters today, said Democrats could have picked up as many as 50 House seats, instead of the nearly 30 they have so far.

The reason they didn’t, he said, is the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million it could have put into so-called “third tier” House races against vulnerable Republicans.

Carville said the other Democratic campaign committees had borrowed to the hilt.

He said he tried to meet with Dean to argue for additional spending for Democrats in the final days of the campaign, but Dean declined and gave no reason why.

Asked by a reporter whether Dean should be dumped, Carville replied, “In a word, do I think? Yes.”

He added, “I think he should be held accountable.” He added, “I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence.”

Carville likened the Democratic takeover of Congress to the civil war battle at Gettysburg, which the Union army won but failed to pursue the Confederate army when it retreated.

“We should have chased them down,” Carville said. There was no immediate response from Dean or the DNC.

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Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2006, 10:16:08 AM »
Funny. But "Rumsfeldian"? It's not like innocent people died...

Offline jonyem

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 01:24:52 PM »
I think he's right, Dean should be dumped.
The DNC needs someone that reflects the party better than a nut job would.
Remember, Kerry didn't beat out Dean for the nomination, Dean beat himself.

Offline cactusfan

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 05:18:35 PM »
I think he's right, Dean should be dumped.
The DNC needs someone that reflects the party better than a nut job would.
Remember, Kerry didn't beat out Dean for the nomination, Dean beat himself.

try reading dean's speeches back at the onset of the iraq war. everything he said then is what everyone is saying now. dean beat himself? the press beat dean. the guy's about as sensible and middle of the road as there is. unfortunately, as far as our fabulous press corps is concerned, saying what you mean is a sign of 'insanity.' if everything you say isn't perfectly scripted, the press is all over you for being a 'nut job' who's 'off his meds.' in light of that sad truth about the state of our political discourse, maybe dean isn't the right man for the job. a slick, lying ken mehlman type is perhaps more appropriate in our world. but dean's not wrong because of what he believes.

and carville? cripes. what has carville done aside from yammering endlessly on talk shows? he's some kind of 'democratic strategist' or something? how well has that been working out the last 6 years? for all we know he gets his talking points from his wife.

Offline susep

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 06:30:38 PM »
Funny. But "Rumsfeldian"? It's not like innocent people died...

my first thought also :wink:

Offline guyforget

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2006, 06:31:13 PM »
His wife is a big Republican isnt she?  Worked for George Bush?  (Sr.)

Offline susep

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2006, 06:38:26 PM »
the press beat dean. the guy's about as sensible and middle of the road as there is. unfortunately, as far as our fabulous press corps is concerned, saying what you mean is a sign of 'insanity.' if everything you say isn't perfectly scripted, the press is all over you for being a 'nut job' who's 'off his meds.'

Well said.
In hindsight Dean wouldn't have conceeded as quickly as Kerry did in the '04 presidential vote.  Kerry knew machines in NM. were automatically giving Bush a majority lead.  Also Ohio was stacked w/ GOP election manipulations, all too much for Kerry to handle.  Maybe Dean, who isn't a cousin of Bush unlike Kerry, would have fought harder against voter/democratic corruption :evil: :samurai:
« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 06:40:31 PM by susep73 »

Offline sophist

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2006, 10:47:26 PM »
try reading dean's speeches back at the onset of the Iraq war. everything he said then is what everyone is saying now. dean beat himself? the press beat dean. the guy's about as sensible and middle of the road as there is.
dean is moderate?
ROTFLMAO

http://www.all-encompassingly.com/crazy_dean.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean
Quote
Controversial statements

Dean has made numerous controversial statements, both during his run for the presidency and during his tenure as DNC chair, mostly relating to either U.S. foreign policy or the Republican Party:
Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to:
Howard Dean

In response to his Iraq war radio comments, some Democrats, especially those in Republican-leaning areas, dissented with the chairman's opinion. Democratic representative Jim Marshall of Georgia said, "Dean's take on Iraq makes even less sense than the scream in Iowa; both are uninformed and unhelpful." [19] North Dakota Representative Earl Pomeroy was critical of Dean for making policy recommendations as chair of the DNC, telling a radio audience, "my words to Howard Dean are simple - shut up."[20]

Believing that Howard Dean's comments will alienate many voters, various Republicans have been indifferent to and even welcomed Dean's remarks. Senator John McCain for example told Cybercast News Service outside a Rock the Vote event, "Howard Dean is the gift that keeps on giving. [21]

On May 10, 2006, Dean went on the 700 Club and incorrectly stated that "[t]he Democratic Party platform from 2004 says marriage is between a man and a woman." The error resulted in widespread outrage against and criticism of Dean from homosexual and liberal groups and individuals, even after the DNC issued a statement the following day in which Dean wrote, "I misstated the Democratic Party's platform, which does not say that marriage should be limited to a man and a woman, but says the party is committed to full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and leaves the issue to the states to decide. The Democratic Party remains committed to equal protection under the law for all Americans. How we achieve that goal continues to be the subject of a contentious debate, but our party continues to oppose constitutional amendments that seek to short circuit the debate on how to achieve equality for all Americans." [22]

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/02/governor_dean_i_4.php
Quote
Four- we want a health care system which works for everyone, just like 36 other countries in the world have.
This is called socialized medicine

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interest/naral012103/dean012103spt.html

Quote
Let me tell you a story.  As many of you know I'm a doctor.  I'm an internist, and I take care of all ages pretty much from five to 105, and one time I was sitting in my office, and it was not unusual for young kids to come and talk to me because I knew the whole family, and one time a young lady came into my office who was 12 years old and she thought she might be pregnant.  And we did the tests and did the exam and she was pregnant.  She didn't know what to do.  And after I had talked to her for a while I came to the conclusion that the likely father of her child was her own father.  You explain that to the American people who think that parental notification is a good idea.  [cheers, applause].  I will veto parental notification.  [cheers, applause continue].
b/c the 14 year old that was careless needs privacy.  the father should be notified that he is a sick fuck and then arrested, but Dean did neither.
Quote
Abortion is connected to civil rights, because the government is so impressed with itself in promoting individual freedom they can't wait to get into your bedroom and tell you how to behave.  [applause].  And I don't think, as a physician--people ask me what's your position on abortion.  It's very simple; it's a single sentence.  The practice of medicine is none of the government's business and they ought to stay out of it.
but his prior statement contradicts this:
Quote
Four- we want a health care system which works for everyone, just like 36 other countries in the world have.

http://www.consents.com/Politics/archive/200507/POL20050725a.html
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And in referring to the long voting lines during the last presidential election, Dean speculated that Republican voters didn't mind the lines as much. "Republicans, I guess, can do that (stand in line) because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," Dean said on June 2.
:roll:  :roll:
great generalization from a middle of the road guy. 

Quote
The Democratic Party chairman suggested that Bush should be "reaching out and putting a collar and a mouthpiece on some of these people in his own party that are encouraging bigotry against immigrants in order to win the 2006 election.
implied voter fraud, but no mention of oppressed votes since the dems one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9247380/
Quote
MIAMI - Race was a factor in the death toll from Hurricane Katrina, Howard Dean told members of the National Baptist Convention of America on Wednesday at the group’s annual meeting.
nature doesn't like black people  :wink:  :roll:
Did Bush screw up? yes, did it have to do with race? no. 

This guy is a whack job.  A moderate democrat would be Joe Liberman. 

« Last Edit: November 16, 2006, 10:59:40 PM by phan003 »
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline cactusfan

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2006, 04:27:12 AM »
 :-o


well you see, phan003, the reason dean seems 'far left' to you is because you are so very far, far, far to the right.

Offline mattstick

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2006, 06:19:28 AM »

The American perversion to National Health Care is so ridiculously stupid and assanine that it boggles the mind.

You should be embarrased that a country so rich can let it's poorest people go without medical care.

Howard Dean is probably one of the best intentioned politicians in the USA since I've been interested in politics.  He often says the wrong thing at the wrong time, and that's the main reason he probably won't hold office again.  I suspect there is a position for him somewhere, but perhaps it's not head of the DNC which requires someone a little more slick.

Offline mattstick

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2006, 06:23:21 AM »
I hate Conservative rants like phan's above because they're so self-serving.

National Health Care is about HUMAN RIGHTS.
Abortion is about CIVIL RIGHTS.


Offline susep

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2006, 01:32:24 PM »
:-o


well you see, phan003, the reason dean seems 'far left' to you is because you are so very far, far, far to the right.

A right conservative w/ these religious undertones:

1.    Mahayana Buddhism (100%)
2.    Theravada Buddhism (91%)
3.    Unitarian Universalism (87%)
4.    New Thought (84%)
5.    Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (82%)
6.    Neo-Pagan (82%)
7.    Liberal Quakers (81%)
8.    Hinduism (80%)
9.    Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (79%)
10.    New Age (77%)

 :-o

Offline sophist

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2006, 02:08:12 PM »
:-o


well you see, phan003, the reason dean seems 'far left' to you is because you are so very far, far, far to the right.
strike II

like dean, your also out of touch with being "center of the road"

the colbert thread inspired me to see who believes what...
so I'll start, I'm a libertarian for the most part.  I despise big government, and big corporations.  I don't like the concept of welfare, but i find that pure "capitalism" is inhumane.  We should care for our fellow citizens, but I think it should be private (not organized by the government).  I'm for the death penalty, I'm pro-choice, I want to legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them.  Homosexuals have the right to marry. 

so yes i must be a evil conservative.  praise haliburton, fuck nature  :roll:
I prove you wrong and you attempt to label me without facts to prove it.  Dean's whole political career is based on neo-Marxist ideologies, and you want to call him a moderate?  Do explain that one, and provide sufficient evidence to back up that claim.
I hate Conservative rants like phan's above because they're so self-serving.

National Health Care is about HUMAN RIGHTS.
Abortion is about CIVIL RIGHTS.


Nothing is more selfish than wanting a hand out.  On paper this works, but people will always fuck the system, which is why it has and always will fail.  I'm not saying we should ignore the poor/helpless, but it is not the government's job, it is our responsibility as humans to care for each other(Religious organizations such as the red cross do a better job than the federal govt-see Katrina for proof).  The private sector can do a better job, and last time I checked Matt, people weren't flocking to Canada for medical advice, they came where capitalism had boosted the quality of medicine and doctors.  Doctors get screwed by national health care, their salary will decrease, and that in turn will create corruption.  Rich people will pay for private appointments, while the poor still get screwed.  Its called incentive, and its basic economics. 


A right conservative w/ these religious undertones:

1.    Mahayana Buddhism (100%)
2.    Theravada Buddhism (91%)
3.    Unitarian Universalism (87%)
4.    New Thought (84%)
5.    Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (82%)
6.    Neo-Pagan (82%)
7.    Liberal Quakers (81%)
8.    Hinduism (80%)
9.    Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (79%)
10.    New Age (77%)

 :-o
i believe in karma, and that it is my responsibility to help my fellow man.  If I see someone in trouble I will help them.  I have compassion and understanding for my fellow humans; however, I see it as my responsibility to help, not the responsibility of someone I elect.  If I have to eat ramen noodles for a month because I gave money to support a disaster relief fund, I'll do that.  I'd feel guilty if I just bitched about it, and waited for a politican to do something about it (the govt always takes way too long to act imo).  I'm not saying anyone did this, I just feel that acting on my accord is more humane, and a better way to help those in need.
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

Offline cactusfan

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2006, 03:08:56 PM »
mr. phan003, i hate to break this to, but angry accusations aren't really 'arguments.' not sure why you're so upset. you haven't proven anything about dean, you've just ranted about how you personally disagree with his positions.

let's go back to your other post.

the first two quotes are from republicans characterizing what dean has said. and gee whiz-- they think he's nuts! shocker!

next is dean mis-stating the democratic platform with regards to gay marriage-- which actually makes him seem closer to the right. not sure how this supports his being a wacko lefty.

next we seem to have struck a chord with you regarding health care. our system of health care is, indeed, absolutey great-- assuming you're rich. if you actually think creating a national health care system to make sure everyone, however poor, is covered, would somehow affect the level of care given to rich people, then you haven't been paying attention. rich people will be fine, don't worry. and our poor, underpaid doctors will be fine, too. insurance companies? hmm, maybe not so much. but since it's those very companies making health care such a disaster currently, i'm not going to shed a tear. since you, too, are against big corporations, i'm not sure what your beef is. is it the word 'socialism'? how about we call it something else? are you okay with the absurd burden put on small businesses to provide health coverage for their employees? why should businesses be in charge of that anyway?

i'm not really sure what you're getting at with the next one. dean should arrest bad parents? and then something about dean contradicting himself? and again, how does that make him a left-wing whacko? he has an opinion on parental notification laws. i take it you disagree?

katrina. right. bush screwed up, but it didn't have to do with race. it's nice how you know the mind of another human being. i feel so reassured about that disaster now. indeed-- the weather doesn't hate black people! har har har! what a devastating argument! i have been smacked down! ouch! but seriously, if you actually believe the katrina response would have been the same had those people been white and rich, you are again living in a fantasy world. i don't know what bush thinks about black people and neither do you. but i can sure as hell see the difference in treatment of poor people versus rich people by him and his administration.

you want to talk about health care? about abortion? let's take a poll of americans and see what they really want. and let's not color it by cries of gay marriage! high taxes! cut and run! and all the other bullshit. most americans want their government to provide health care, to help the poor, to treat all people fairly. unfortunately they're never given a chance to vote directly on issues like that.

let's hear what dean had to say about our upcoming war-of-choice with iraq on 2/17/03:

"I believe that the President too often employs a reckless, go-it-alone approach that drives us away from some of our longest-standing and most important allies, when what we need is to pull the world community together in common action against the imminent threat of terrorism.

I believe that the President undercuts our long-term national security interests and the established international order when he seeks to replace decades of bipartisan consensus on the use of American force with a new doctrine justifying preemptive attacks against other nation states - not because of their current action or imminent threat, but to preempt a threat that could arise in the future.

I believe that the President must do more on the most important front in the war on terrorism - our home front - through strengthened and well-funded first responders and effective security measures that go beyond calls to purchase plastic sheeting and duct tape.

And I firmly believe that the President is focusing our diplomats, our military, our intelligence agencies, and even our people on the wrong war, at the wrong time, when our energy and our resources should be marshaled for the greatest threats we face. Yes, Saddam Hussein is evil. But Osama bin Laden is also evil, and he has attacked the United States, and he is preparing now to attack us again.

What happened to the war against al Qaeda?

Why has this Administration taken us so far off track?

I believe it is my patriotic duty to urge a different path to protecting America's security: To focus on al Qaeda, which is an imminent threat, and to use our resources to improve and strengthen the security and safety of our home front and our people while working with the other nations of the world to contain Saddam Hussein.

I do not believe the President should have been given a green light to drive our nation into conflict without the case having first been made to Congress and the American people for why this war is necessary, and without a requirement that we at least try first to work through the United Nations.

That the President was given open-ended authority to go to war in Iraq resulted from a failure of too many in my party in Washington who were worried about political positioning for the presidential election.

To this day, the President has not made a case that war against Iraq, now, is necessary to defend American territory, our citizens, our allies, or our essential interests.

Nor has the Administration prepared sufficiently for the possible retaliatory attacks on our home front that even the President's CIA Director has stated are likely to occur. It has always been important, before going to war, for our troops to be well-trained, well-equipped, and well-protected. In this new era, it is as important that our people on the home front also be well-protected.

The Administration has not explained how a lasting peace, and lasting security, will be achieved in Iraq once Saddam Hussein is toppled.

And the Administration has approached the United Nations more as an afterthought than as the international institution created to deal with precisely such a situation as we face in Iraq. From the outset, the Administration has seemed oblivious to the simple fact that it clearly would be in our interests for any war with Iraq to occur with UN authorization and cooperation and not without it.

The Administration's reckless bluster with our allies over Iraq has caused what could be lasting friction in important relationships and has injured our standing in the world community. When rhetoric by subordinates in the Administration alienates our long-standing allies, it should be met with reprimand and not condoned by the President."

whoa there mr. pacifist freak! get a hair-cut, hippie!
yes, that dean is an unhinged loon. thank god bush was in charge when it counted. a 'lasting peace'! ha ha ha! why would anyone worry about that? i think bushco has certainly proven wrong every single one of dean's loony-tunes worries about the war.


Offline mattstick

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Re: Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2006, 03:31:42 PM »
and last time I checked Matt, people weren't flocking to Canada for medical advice, they came where capitalism had boosted the quality of medicine and doctors.  Doctors get screwed by national health care, their salary will decrease, and that in turn will create corruption.  Rich people will pay for private appointments, while the poor still get screwed.  Its called incentive, and its basic economics. 

You think you've got it all figured out, but you don't really know what you're talking about.  These are all simple assumptions, none of which are based in fact.