The First Debate

[Phunkaddict]

What time is this all supposed to go down??? 

9:00 PM

[gah]

bvaz, please see "McCain Leaps into a Thicket" posted on the Road to November thread, last page. by rowjimmy, for an explanation of "bragging about bringing people together". Obama is actually doing it, and McCain is not, simple fact. Stated by his fellow senators.

And please explain to me why I should be interested in seeing what McCain can do? I am a liberal and you ask why am I "so scared to see what McCain can do?" Look around you, we've seen what he can do for the last 8 YEARS! He has voted with Bush 90% of the time, why should I think he is going to be that much different from what we have just been through?

How and when does the president vote?
He doesn't.  He suggests policy and the policy is implemented (or not) by the legislative branch.  That is a "scare" tactic talking point.  Let's focus on the actual flaws and real flubs of McCain. 

Ok, he doesn't, you got me. It doesn't alter the underlying point I was trying to make, below quoted from politifact.com:

If you've been following the Democratic National Convention, you've doubtless heard any number of speakers cite the statistic that Sen. John McCain has voted with President Bush 90 percent of the time. There's no mystery to the Democratic strategy here: A vote for McCain amounts to four more years of Bush, whose approval rating is hovering near an abysmal 30 percent.

So it came as no surprise when Sen. Barack Obama cited the statistic in his major convention address.

"But the record's clear: John McCain has voted with George Bush 90 percent of the time. Senator McCain likes to talk about judgment, but really, what does it say about your judgment when you think George Bush was right more than ninety percent of the time? I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to take a 10 percent chance on change."

The number is based on a "presidential support" score from Congressional Quarterly, which rates how often lawmakers back or oppose the president. Since 2001, McCain has, in fact, backed the president's position an average of 90 percent of the time. By congressional standards, that's solidly partisan, but hardly marching in lockstep.

McCain supported Bush as infrequently as 77 percent of the time in 2005; and as high as 95 percent of the time in 2007. We should also note some factors that helped to drive up McCain's 2007 score, which was partly a reflection of the new political calculus in the Democratic-controlled Congress. That year, McCain missed more than half the votes on which Bush had a position, as he campaigned for the White House. But repeated votes on immigration and the Iraq war — two issues on which he was closely allied with Bush — as well as filibuster votes helped elevate McCain from one of the president's chief Republican adversaries three years ago to one of his biggest supporters.

[rowjimmy]

BTW, CNN reports that McCain will attend the debate tonight.

How nice of him.

[mattstick]

Let's Play Ball!

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/most_voters_exp.html

[rowjimmy]

Let's Play Ball!

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/most_voters_exp.html

that McCain statement is such tired doubletalk it makes me queasy.
McCain suggests that Obama isn't interested in bipartisanship but who fucking called who on Wednesday morning?
Obama called McCain.

[tet]

that McCain statement is such tired doubletalk it makes me queasy.
McCain suggests that Obama isn't interested in bipartisanship but who fucking called who on Wednesday morning?
Obama called McCain.

facts matter very little when politics are involved...  :roll:

[gimmetela]

i'm with letterman.
you're a no show,
no inaugural day.

[Hicks]

McCain's hubris that he could singlehandedly "save the economy" by skipping a two hour debate is almost comical, unfortunately this man may be our next president which isn't funny. 

E. J. Dionne Jr. lays it out nicely here:

John McCain made a dramatic gesture to solve a problem that didn't exist. He pledged to take politics out of a process that has been surprisingly bipartisan. And he tried to scrub a presidential debate that had nothing to do with negotiations over a Wall Street bailout that he proposed to save.

Mr. McCain's sudden intervention on Wednesday in Washington's deliberations over how to rescue the economy could not have been more out of sync with what was actually happening.

He lamented that "partisan divisions in Washington have prevented us from addressing our national challenges," and somberly declared: "Now is our chance to come together."

But for days, bipartisanship has been the rule on both sides of this argument. Partisanship has been stunningly irrelevant. Republicans and Democrats alike were highly critical of President Bush's proposal to inject $700 billion into the financial system. Yet leaders of both parties were trying hard to negotiate an agreement with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Minority Leader John Boehner normally fight about everything. But on Wednesday they issued a joint statement noting that "working in a bipartisan manner, we have made progress." Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Boehner have been models of bipartisanship without any intervention by Mr. McCain.

And if Mr. McCain had actually been following the negotiations closely, he would have known there have been times this week when Senate Democrats worried that Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, was too chummy with Mr. Paulson and too eager for a deal. Senate Democrats put out their own proposal partly to make sure their concerns were taken into account.

Mr. Frank did not need Mr. McCain to make him bipartisan, and he grumbled about Thursday's White House meeting that included Mr. McCain and Barack Obama as a mere "photo op."

Mr. Bush's address to the nation included uncharacteristic concessions to his critics on the bailout bill. He said he wanted to "ensure that taxpayers are protected," which, one hopes, means they will get shares in the companies they rescue. He endorsed oversight mechanisms his administration's original proposal lacked, and signaled that he accepted an idea his negotiators had resisted fiercely: limiting what the financial titans who got us into this mess could pocket from this enormous package.

If you doubt that Mr. McCain's moves were about rescuing his candidacy rather than our economy, consider how his proposal to suspend the presidential campaign came about.

Mr. McCain had just gotten off a phone call with Mr. Obama on Wednesday in which they discussed a joint statement of principles and Mr. McCain broached the idea of suspending the campaign. Mr. Obama said he'd think about it, but Mr. McCain didn't give him time. To Mr. Obama's surprise, Mr. McCain appeared on television shortly after the conversation to announce his unilateral pause in campaigning and a call for postponing Friday's debate. This is bipartisanship?

As for Thursday's White House meeting, Mr. Bush's lieutenants had been in discussions with Mr. McCain's people during the day on Wednesday. Mr. Obama didn't get his invitation from the president until around 7:30 p.m., just an hour and a half before Mr. Bush's speech. This was an active intervention by Mr. Bush on behalf of Mr. McCain to box Mr. Obama into the photo op. Again, was this bipartisan?

The simple truth is that Washington is petrified about this crisis and will pass something. There are dark fears floating through the city that foreign investors, particularly the Chinese, might begin to pull their billions out of our system.

Scarier than the bad mortgages are those unregulated credit default swaps that the financier George Soros has been warning about. There are $45 trillion of those esoteric instruments sloshing around the global financial system. They were invented as a hedge against defaults on debts, but even the financial smart guys don't fully understand their impact or how to price their real value.

Fear is a terrible motivator for careful legislating, but it's a heck of a way to bring about a lot of bipartisanship. Mr. McCain jumped into this game in the fourth quarter. Many of the players on the field, caked in mud and exhausted but determined as they approach the goal line, wonder why this new would-be quarterback has suddenly appeared in their midst.

Mr. McCain could yet play a constructive role by blessing a deal that is anathema to so many in his party and easing the political pain. But his intervention was less a presidential act than the tactical ploy of a man worried that his chances of becoming president might be slipping away.

[Hicks]

bvaz, please see "McCain Leaps into a Thicket" posted on the Road to November thread, last page. by rowjimmy, for an explanation of "bragging about bringing people together". Obama is actually doing it, and McCain is not, simple fact. Stated by his fellow senators.

And please explain to me why I should be interested in seeing what McCain can do? I am a liberal and you ask why am I "so scared to see what McCain can do?" Look around you, we've seen what he can do for the last 8 YEARS! He has voted with Bush 90% of the time, why should I think he is going to be that much different from what we have just been through?

How and when does the president vote?
He doesn't.  He suggests policy and the policy is implemented (or not) by the legislative branch.  That is a "scare" tactic talking point.  Let's focus on the actual flaws and real flubs of McCain. 

Unfortunately due to the usurpation of our checks and balances the white house has been dictating legislation to sheep minded Republicans in the house and senate.

Sure it's not how it's supposed to work but that's been the deal, I mean how long did it take for Bush to veto a bill?

[cactusfan]

do people really think john mccain is scared of obama?  are you serious?
if you want to hear about obama TALK about what he can do, go ahead.  I want to watch US Senators actually do what they were elected to do.

the people who care about this debate already have their mind made up on who they will vote for.  why do you want to watch it?  in case you didn;t realize this, depending on your views, you can make an argument for either party winning the debate.  it is all relative to what side of the spectrum you are on.

in my opinion (and it is onyl an opinion), this is typical of obama.  he is a great talker on what he can do, but has nothing to show for it which is why HE is scared to go to washignton and actually try to DO something.

flame away.  I'll respond over the weekend as I ahve a hell of a day in front of me and won't ahve time to "debate."  I have an actual job to do.

damn, dude. you are hilarious. you must be on the republican talking points fax distribution list.

really? you can make an argument for either party winning a debate? excuse me while i catch my breath.

what exactly are you imagining that obama is scared to 'do' in washington? he went to the trouble of contacting mcccain PRIVATELY to issue a joint statement on the matter. mccain decided a PUBLIC announcement that he would single-handedly go to washington to SAVE THE WORLD but, you know, not politicize the matter, would be a much better move.

and why not? mccain's been tanking in the polls, he had to do something! mind you, he didn't actually suspend his campaign, and he didn't actually DO anything in washington as it turned out (attended one meeting at which he reportedly didn't say much of anything).

hmm, it's almost like it was a desperate, grandstanding political stunt.

meanwhile, it's hardly surprising that you don't want to watch the debate. what do you care? very little, it sounds like. MOST people, most voters, actually SAVOR the chance to hear the people who might be running the country debate their policies. this is IT, man, the only time we get to hear them go at one another LIVE, a mere three debates, that's what it's come to, and as scripted as their answers will be, debates are ALWAYS revealing.

plus, a vast majority of voters are not obsessed with politics. they don't read blogs daily and follow every move the candidates make, they don't go to their respective websites and read the candidates' proposed policies. no, they watch the debates. this is where most americans get to see and hear what the candidates are really about.

why else do you think mccain is so scared to have palin debate? he tried to get it postponed, he succeeded in changing the rules to make it easier for her. as scripted as they are, debates are ultimately very revealing.

is mccain scared of obama? are you even paying attention to this campaign? mccain is throwing hail mary after hail mary. this past week has seen him running in circles. have you seen the polling? you're damn right he's scared. scared of getting his ass handed to him.

anyway, man, you have fun at work as you high and mightily avoid watching a bunch of mere talk. when someone's finally in office, you can worry about actions and wish you'd paid attention when you had the chance.

[cactusfan]

Slate predicts McCain's next 10 Hail Mary stunts.

Posted Thursday, Sept. 25, 2008, at 1:39 PM ET


1. Returns to Vietnam and jails himself.
2. Offers the post of "vice vice president" to Warren Buffett.
3. Challenges Obama to suspend campaign so they both can go and personally drill for oil offshore.
4. Learns to use computer.
5. Does bombing run over Taliban-controlled tribal areas of Pakistan.
6. Offers to forgo salary, sell one house.
7. Sex-change operation.
8. Suspends campaign until Nov. 4, offers to start being president right now.
9. Sells Alaska to Russia for $700 billion.
10. Pledges to serve only one term. OK, half a term.

[gah]

meanwhile, it's hardly surprising that you don't want to watch the debate. what do you care? very little, it sounds like. MOST people, most voters, actually SAVOR the chance to hear the people who might be running the country debate their policies. this is IT, man, the only time we get to hear them go at one another LIVE, a mere three debates, that's what it's come to, and as scripted as their answers will be, debates are ALWAYS revealing.

plus, a vast majority of voters are not obsessed with politics. they don't read blogs daily and follow every move the candidates make, they don't go to their respective websites and read the candidates' proposed policies. no, they watch the debates. this is where most americans get to see and hear what the candidates are really about.

Exactly. 

[antelope19]

Initial thoughts???  I thought there were solid points made by both candidates and they both tried to distance themselves from one another on a number of the issues.  I thought there were a couple of times when it was gonna get heated in the beginning.  They traded several barbs throughout.   

[mattstick]

McCain attacked, Barack shined.

Good action for sure.

[susep]

I like how McCain rode the alternative energy idea without going into specifics.  And then said he wanted to build 45 new Nuclear reactors.  wtf?