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R5/W05: 12-03-1999 Firstar Center, Cincinnati, OH

Started by blatboom, October 05, 2008, 11:12:52 PM

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Hicks

Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

blatboom

Who picked this dog?  :-D
Honestly, I was expecting some differing takes here, but the negatives were really dominating the positives until Hicks came along with a nice write-up that sort of captured my sentiments of the show exactly.  I must admit though, both sets do look sorta beat on paper...


Set I:

First Tube - decent version, but a good way to start a show

Wolfman's - not one of my favorites, but the jam usually delivers.  Mike's thumpin along & Fish lays down a funky ass beat.  Trey keeps playing around with his tone.  this one ends in a big way.  I'd say this was a collaborative effort that sets the theme for the night

Bouncing - early first set Bouncin's are the best kind.

Back on the Train - I dig this song--love Fish's beat.  not sure what's going on in this "jam."  meh version.

Billy Breathes - another song I like, but it's gonna drag the energy down a notch. some lovely piano playing from Page.  they seemed a little out of sync at times

AC/DC Bag - this was needed.. the crowd seems to be into this one. jam keeps building to breakneck speed but they manage to stay together pretty well. beyond that, nothing too crazy here.

>Possum - sort of emerges from the ashes of Bag. long buildup that they fail to cash in on.  there's a real nice exchange between Trey and Page early on. this Possum has a weird feel to it, which isn't a bad thing at all

Slave - sweet. something needed to save this set and it comes in the form of a Slave closer.  man oh man do I love this version.  Page plays some killer stuff on the piano and organ. Trey takes a totally different approach while Mike and Fish lay it down perfectly.  Is this the same band that played the rest of this set?


Yeh, sort of a blah first set.  I'd have to say it lacked killer or even nice flow.  but I do like the Wolfman's and Possum, I think both of them have a distinctive sound along with Slave.  and the Slave is simply awesome IMO.


Set II:

Sand - opening the second set with a mellow vibe.  while never a big fan of Trey on anything other than his guitar, some of his keyboard effects can be cool, particularly that high-pitched noise that sounds like a bomb dropping--that goes on a loop here.  Trey does play some sweet guitar however, while Page lays on some fantastic textural work.  This type of sound is what I think of when I think of this era.  The music has this dense quality thats of a time.  Not that I prefer this over another style or era, I just appreciate the uniqueness

Limb x Limb - it seems like everyone is in agreement that this is a killer Limb.  they're locked in the whole way.  Some great peaks before things ease into a darker, more mellow jam where Mike gets nasty...then some pure space for a bit. I absolutely love it, the sort of thing that makes you forget what song this started out as..

Bug - I'm always willing to give Bug a chance because it's capable of delivering the goods.  They seem to force-feed it to us at times, putting it in the choicest spots, but right here seems perfect.  they nail this Bug in every way, very powerful.

Piper - another song I happen to like a lot.  Trey's guitar when this song starts up gets me every time.  organized chaos going on right here.  unfortunately this arrangement of Piper is much more limiting than the ones starting in 2000, when they take it to a whole new level.  still, it brought some good energy

Harry Hood - awesome way to end a show..maybe even the best way.  sweet sweet guitar in the opening segment. all kinds of trippy stuff.  the glowsticks must have been flying, you can hear it in the crowd.  things start out typically enough, until everything sort of dies down and something altogether different and wonderful emerges.  a groundswell of goodness leading to some crazy chords from Trey, then they're off to the finish line.

Encore:

Rock & Roll - I'm much more used to hearing this open sets, so this is interesting.  One of my favorite covers.  I prefer the open-ended versions, but this works fine.


Well, from Slave on, I love everything.  The second set is my cup of tea, making use of some newer songs, capped off by a killer Hood.  I usually grade whole shows, but here I'll say set I: C, set II: A.

GBL

If this is love, I'm never going home..

jedifunk

Quote from: blatboom on October 19, 2008, 09:35:51 PM

Piper - another song I happen to like a lot.  Trey's guitar when this song starts up gets me every time.  organized chaos going on right here.  unfortunately this arrangement of Piper is much more limiting than the ones starting in 2000, when they take it to a whole new level.  still, it brought some good energy
funny, i think the real piper died around this time... i'm not a big fan of most pipers that came 2000 & after.... sure they get to some incredible jams, but they completely destroyed what was an otherwise beautiful song.

IMO, piper was never supposed to be about the ability to jam out of it.... it was about building, and building and building, until you feel like you're gonna explode cuz you can't take anymore building.... and then closing it off with the original finishing mellowness chord.

listen to the 97/98 versions... they start soooo quiet and delicate, and slowly, oh so slowly, the start to climb... they climb so slowly, they climb sooo slowly! (sorry, couldn't help it, its a good reference)... and they kept climbing, and then, BAM! closing chords.

god i miss the original piper.

IMO, 2000 & beyond piper was just a means to an end.  their attitude was, "get thru the song, so we can get to the jam"... seriously.  they sped it up, cut out the intro, killed the building... it got so fast... too fast.

it wasn't the same song anymore.
Much Respect
(the other resident mac guy) [macbook air]
"Good Funk, real funk is not played by four white guys from Vermont.. If anything, you could call what we're doing cow funk or something.."
- Trey Anastasio

Mr Minor

Quote from: jedifunk on October 20, 2008, 12:35:09 AM
Quote from: blatboom on October 19, 2008, 09:35:51 PM

Piper - another song I happen to like a lot.  Trey's guitar when this song starts up gets me every time.  organized chaos going on right here.  unfortunately this arrangement of Piper is much more limiting than the ones starting in 2000, when they take it to a whole new level.  still, it brought some good energy
funny, i think the real piper died around this time... i'm not a big fan of most pipers that came 2000 & after.... sure they get to some incredible jams, but they completely destroyed what was an otherwise beautiful song.

IMO, piper was never supposed to be about the ability to jam out of it.... it was about building, and building and building, until you feel like you're gonna explode cuz you can't take anymore building.... and then closing it off with the original finishing mellowness chord.

listen to the 97/98 versions... they start soooo quiet and delicate, and slowly, oh so slowly, the start to climb... they climb so slowly, they climb sooo slowly! (sorry, couldn't help it, its a good reference)... and they kept climbing, and then, BAM! closing chords.

god i miss the original piper.

IMO, 2000 & beyond piper was just a means to an end.  their attitude was, "get thru the song, so we can get to the jam"... seriously.  they sped it up, cut out the intro, killed the building... it got so fast... too fast.

it wasn't the same song anymore.

Interesting way to look at it.  I agree with you.  Some of those jams from 2000 and beyond were pretty sweet, but the original song did climb to that point and then they let you relax.  Some of the short and sweet ones kicked ass in that regard.  Now I am going to have to go back and listen to some of those first ones.

Hicks

All I know is that the Piper>Guy Forget from 10-1-00 r00lz.
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

blatboom

Quote from: Hicks on October 20, 2008, 06:21:47 PM
All I know is that the Piper>Guy Forget from 10-1-00 r00lz.

I was so gonna mention that!  but Jedi made a good point, and you can't argue preferences anyway, so I didn't.  my absolute favorite thing on that DVD.

jedifunk

don't get me wrong... i still love piper (and yes 10-1-00 does rule).

my point was that piper became something that i don't think the band originally intended it to be
Much Respect
(the other resident mac guy) [macbook air]
"Good Funk, real funk is not played by four white guys from Vermont.. If anything, you could call what we're doing cow funk or something.."
- Trey Anastasio

blatboom

Quote from: jedifunk on October 20, 2008, 06:42:05 PM
don't get me wrong... i still love piper (and yes 10-1-00 does rule).

my point was that piper became something that i don't think the band originally intended it to be

you can probably say that about a lot of songs.

Like I said you made your point well.  personally, my whole thing when I think about this stuff, is to try not to forsake one for the other, just enjoy them as being different but good in their own ways.  It's a huge advantage to their music.  and these songs are sure to keep evolving as they (hopefully) keep playing..

susep

Quote from: jedifunk on October 20, 2008, 06:42:05 PM
my point was that piper became something that i don't think the band originally intended it to be

I think that's true for most of everything they played.

Hicks

Quote from: susep73 on October 20, 2008, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: jedifunk on October 20, 2008, 06:42:05 PM
my point was that piper became something that i don't think the band originally intended it to be

I think that's true for most of everything they played.

werd, that's the beauty of Phish.   The music was always evolving and nobody, not even the band, knew what was going to happen at any given moment. 
Quote from: Trey Anastasio
But, I don't think our fans do happily lap it up, I think they go online and talk about how it was a bad show.

jedifunk

yes, and no...

i just mean the structure, or perhaps the pace, of it changed
Much Respect
(the other resident mac guy) [macbook air]
"Good Funk, real funk is not played by four white guys from Vermont.. If anything, you could call what we're doing cow funk or something.."
- Trey Anastasio

GBL

SET I

1st Tube - Crowd seems to like it, feels like we've been hearing alot of these songs lately..
i like it better in the encore slot

Wolfmans - Around 5:00 in they find a nice groove.. then again around 9:00 they hit a very SOLID beat, finally got me interested

Bouncing - Not really in the mood for this right now..

GBOTT - I enjoy this song alot, brings me back to DC 00.. Pretty standard though..

B Breathes - Everythings been pretty low key so far this set, expecting something soon.. Good jam though..

AC/DC Bag - I knew something was coming :] def in the mood for one.. nothing crazy here, standard shrage

Possum - i guess you could give that a ->.. yikes! kinda botched the beginning.. the laid back feel to this set is all over this
possum, is trey tired or something? def mehtastic, this song is supposed to be about energy, IMO..

Slave - VERY quiet beginning, wasn't sure it was slave until they dropped into it.. actually had a nice peak, best song of the set fo sho


Everyone for the most seems to agree about this 1st set.. Late into Wolfmans got cool, and then the Slave closer were highlights

SET II

Sand - The fade in was cool.. very ambient to beginning this jam, some loops.. while this isn't my favorite song,
i think this song still has huge potential.. Not a bad version to open set II..

LxL - Def ugh factor, NOT the right placement for this toon.. If i can make it past the 1st 4 minutes or so, its usually good, and they
find a nice jam after 4:00 in.. Trey is playing much more inspired then in the 1st set.. More chillin out after 8:00, very shillll..
very atypical ending, i liked it..

Bug - more ugh factor, flow is def a major problem with this show.. The beginning part to the 'jam', ie treys riff, is pretty cool,
but still doesn't make up for the horrible flow to this show

Piper - I don't mind this one as much as others, can def be great.. High energy, does its thing..

Hood - yay! some meat (hopefully).. I liked the intro alot, and the jam again starts very mellow, very ambient beginning..
For a 20 min hood i find it hard to believe they couldn't have found a peak anywhere, maybe too much ambiance..

RnR - Not sure about this one in the encore slot, but still cool to hear..


Overall this show was ehhh.. 2nd set saved it from a D imo, with some interesting jams and ambiance

C
If this is love, I'm never going home..

ytowndan

First Tube - A great opener.  Nice energy, and it gets things moving. 

Wolfman's - Gets pretty funky about half way through.  I like the way they brought it back in the end. 

Bouncin - Killed the beginning of what would've been good momentum. 

GBOTT - Not my favorite tune, but it starts to get things moving a bit better, i guess. 

Billy Breathes - I do really like this one, but again bad placement. Played pretty decently though. 

AC/DC Bag - Finally, Some potential!  The jam starts off with an upbeat groove, and some good playing by all.  It peaks out with some good energy.  Very solid version! 

Possum - Much more mellow than most others.  It's played fairly well, but lacks in the energy department.  The big "peak" at the end was well below average. 

Slave - Great version.  Everyone is on fire from start to finish.  If the song placement in this set would have been a little more "pace friendly" this slave would have saved the set. 

Sand - Sometimes I really like the whammy/loops/mini keys/slower jams.  But, I can't stand repetitive bass lines.  I can handle it for about ten min. or less, but 16 + min is a bit much. 

Limb X Limb - Gets out there around the 9 min mark.  I really like this version, it doesn't have that normal Limb vibe.  It develops a real dark tone around 12:00 and remains out there till Trey brings it back around the 15 min area.  Very nice version. 

Bug - I love this tune.  Great placement too, IMO. 

Piper - Pretty standard, and rockin.  Also, good placement. 


Hood - Pretty sweet intro.  I like where the jam goes in the 10 - 12 min range.  But, it was very rushed in the end there.  As far as I'm concerned that was the only "flaw" of this version.  If they would have went a bit slower, and had a nice peak it would be an A+ version.

R&R - Third and last time used as an encore.  Decent version. 


The first set was definitely lacking to say the least, but the second set made it much better.  Didn't quite save the show, but definitely helped out.  Strong C+
 
Quote from: nab on July 27, 2007, 12:20:24 AM
You never drink alone when you have something good to listen to.