Organization

[jedifunk]

to me the difference between > & -> is:
> = one song ends and the other immediately starts, no pause, or its not a true segue.
-> = song flowed smoothly from one to the next.

[jedifunk]

ok, so i just checked out the 4-2-98 page again.  what do you think about doing a 2 column table with each set in its own column?

also i LOVE the wiki arrow... we should use that in place of -> as it looks way better.  that way we can still use > for others.

[jephrey]

What about encores and soundchecks?  I am not totally for that, but I wonder if others are cool with it.

So I guess our standard will be that

the wiki arrow for true segues and the > for no gap.

I'll say again that I like the paragraph style with the show notes following it.

Jephrey

[rowjimmy]

Ok. catching up here...

I think the 2 arrows as define by jedi are ideal and the right way to go.

I think timings for every song are tedious and unimportant. who cares that lifebouy was 3:25?
I care that David Bowie was 29:04, however. Notable lengths are, well, notable. everything else is clutter.

re: Jams. You can't go naming every stretch of music that goes beyond the structure of a song but I Do believe that notable 'beyond the pale' sorta jams deserve either a note on direct indication in the set.

eg:
Ghost -> AC/DC Bag
Notes: Ghost was 25 minutes before transitions seamlesly into AC/DC Bag

or

Ghost -> Jam -> Ac/Dc Bag
Notes: Ghost led to a 15 minute cow-funk jam that led seamlessley into ac/dc bag. Two topless, female audience members managed to get onstage during the jam and danced for several minutes before being led off stage to Fishman's dressing room.

Lastly, for now, I don't know about the two column approach (you couldn't cut and paste that into a txt file easily) but there should be labels for set one, two, etc. the numbering (which, to me, is cumbersome) is not sufficient.
I would go suggest we stick closer to etree format:

Souncheck
01. Funky Bitch →   
02. Nassau Soundcheck Jam   
03. Birds of A Feather   

Set 1
01. Tube   
02. My Mind's Got a Mind of It's Own   
03. The Sloth   
04. NICU   
05. Stash >   
06. Horn   
07. Waste   
08. Chalkdust Torture   

Set 2
01. Punch You in the Eye   
02. Simple   
03. Birds of a Feather   
04. Wolfman's Brother >   
05. Sneakin' Sally >   
06. Frankie Says >   
07. Twist Around
08. Sleeping Monkey   
09. Rocky Top   

Encore
01. Guyute

Concert Debuts: Birds Of A Feather , Frankie Says
Stash was unfinished and featured an extended jam.
Frankie Says featured a Mind Left Body Jam intro.
Twist Around featured an extended jam.

[jephrey]

I'm cool with that, but I personally like the paragraph style...  Go back to the wiki and check out 1998-04-02.  I have 3 sections in there, each different.  I agree with the times being cumbersome and only noting the notable.

I prefer #2, But could see something like you just posted.  I am not worried about which format.  there will be some editing no matter where we get our copy to paste from.  It's more a question of how we want to see it and what we want to be able to do with it.

My vote is for a format very similar to the Pharmers but with better notes and better > -> definition, some other rules (Like the HYHU stuff discussed earlier), and times for lengthy jams/songs in the notes.  I suppose the notes could be a nice repository for users to enter other things in.  There'll be enough people on the wiki to monitor for useless info etc.

Jephrey

[jedifunk]

interesting, no carriage return.  mmm, i dont like that..

[jedifunk]

ok so for soft returns you have to use the
 html tag.

take a look @ 1.4 that i added.  i like the list better than a paragraph, but not in a table since it stretches it out too much.  i think for the year at a glance setlist pages we can do paragraph style to save space, but having a list is much better for cutting and pasting, IMO.

also, its hard to determine what songs require a timing.  take the horn from 7/15/98 it has an ambient jam at the end of it that should be noted so that others know it goes beyond its typical self.  times shouldnt be left just for the monster jams, IMO.

[jephrey]

understood....  Maybe in instances like that, since a time isn't really out of the ordinary, the ambient jam could be mentioned.  In fact, it's nice to mention anything that totally deviates from the theme of the song.  but time only on lengthy tracks (extended jams). 

I like the list for pasting too.  However, is that a function we want to use it for?  I know I was an advocate of this earlier, but since there'll be links to the database and text files there, unless you want all your files standardized with the wiki(which is ever-changing), you shouldn't need to copy/paste.  My thought is that we go with whatever is more appealing to look at.  I like paragraph style for conciseness, and it's what I am used to.  I am okay with the list because that is how all my text files look.

I'll do a general poll in the forums about the 2 and we'll see what everyone thinks.  Straight up comparison.  For the list, how do you like them numbered?

I like 3 digits 1=set, 2&3=track#...  0 for soundcheck, e for encore, l for late set.  Reason is because they'd all be in order in a folder if you named them with the numbers.

101. song1
102. song2
e01. songx

I like noting Set 1: then doing the tracks as straight up 01. 02. 03.

Set1:
01. song1
02. song2
Encore:
01. songx

then there's the all inclusive

s1t01
s1t02
e1t01
I guess soundcheck could be c1t01

I'll go against my preference and vote for the second mentioned.  I think it's clean and easy to understand.  No codes, just what "set "
it's from and then the track #s.  Once we get the format down, I'll run a poll to see what users may like to see.

Jephrey

[jephrey]

I like #4...  One thing, I saw that Punch You in the Eye got a page.  We need to decide on Punch, PYITE, or the full name. (at least in setlists.  I believe it can still connect to a page with the full name, so I think what you put there is good.

I was initially worried.  Lets say we accidentally make a page?  Can it be removed?

Jephrey.

[jedifunk]

yes, removal is possible.

[jephrey]

OK...

look at #4 again...

1.  I made the song #s 2-digits
2.  I just listened to this and thought that stash was rolling into horn so i made it an arrow (Is that right?)
3.  I added a colon after each section like Set1:
4.  I added times to the jams of notable length (IMO I like it, I like jams of notable deviation being mentioned too).  We have to remember that this is the stuff users may go in and adjust later on.  I still haven't looked at templates.

Jephrey

edit...  oh, and I like the idea of using full song names, showing other shortenings on that song's page.   Check out the Punch You in the Eye page.

[rowjimmy]

the paraagrahp is concise but too cluttered with the timings.

the list notation is my favorite.

I don't agree with the three digit numbering tho. if you name you files to etree standard they'll be in order anyway (ph1998-04-02d1t01.flac)
I like the second one you showed with the leading '0' that zero help things stay in line if you get more than nine itels in a set...

...
08 Mikes >
09 I Am Hydrogen >
10 Weekapaug Groove

vs

8 Mikes >
9 I Am Hydrogen >
10 Weekapaug Groove


edit :
Yeah #4 looks tight, imo. and I'm all about using the full names on the setlist pages.

[jephrey]

Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY

Soundcheck:
01. Funky Bitch→
02. Nassau Soundcheck Jam
03. Birds of A Feather
Set 1:
01. Tube
02. My Mind's Got a Mind of It's Own
03. The Sloth
04. NICU
05. Stash →
06. Horn
07. Waste
08. Chalkdust Torture
Set 2:
01. Punch You in the Eye
02. Simple
03. Birds of a Feather
04. Wolfman's Brother→
05. Sneakin' Sally→
06. Frankie Says >
07. Twist
08. Sleeping Monkey
09. Rocky Top
Encore:
01. Guyute

    * Notes:
          o Concert debuts: Birds, Frankie Says
          o Stash unfinished with an extended middle jam.[19:27]
          o "Mind Left Body" jam into Frankie Says.
          o Extended Jam in Twist.[18:34]


So this is good?  I'll post this to the whole group to see what others think after I get all of our acceptance.  Maybe I'll erase the others and do a screenshot.

Jephrey

[rowjimmy]

I like it.

[jedifunk]

Ok, i think we need to step back a bit before we get too far ahead on things of lesser consequence than others.

please take a moment and read the Main Page of the wiki.  i think those are the things are what we need to focus on:

Wiki software successfully installed.

Please see documentation on customizing the interface and the User's Guide for usage and configuration help.

This will be the front page of our new wiki. What other pages do we need?

This shouldnt be that bad. We need to

format a main page [replacement for this]
decide what main 'categories' we want to create pages for
decide what 'subcategories' will go in each 'category'
modify links on left of page
Fix mail sending
more...?