some thoughts

[mbw]

I think it's fucking hilarious that two people posted Trey isn't watching the crowd after I post an interview with Trey and he exclaims he does watch the crowd.  That's what he has always done.  From the moment I first laid my eyes on Trey at a show to this very point in time that's who I watch at Phish.  Never anyone else.  His trademark move is picking one person in the back of the room and playing to them, and the theory is that if you get that person off, then you get everyone who is in front of that person. 

i never said trey doesnt watch the crowd, and we have all heard him say things like the above.
what else is he gonna look at.  i dont see how that has any correlation to young kids loving rawk peaks and hating jamz.

please tell me what i can do, in case i am that person he picks to look at, so that i can conduct trey into an epic jam.
is there a secret dance move or signal i can show him?  it would be quite the burden to have the whole show rest on my actions, and i dont want to fuck it up.

[anthrax]

Blat left early.
Intoxication drove all
my actions that night.

Have I re-listened
since I attended that show?
No int'rest at all.

Excellent use of the 2 syllable version of interest 

[sophist]

It's not going to be a popular opinion, but it amazes me how phish phans that do dig this rock peak version of Phish also hate on Panic when Panic does it much better.  They're the better rock band.

12-02-95 Tweezer says otherwise.

P.S. '95 was full of rawk peaks, people. It's not like it was all "exploration" back then.

Reading is fundamental dude.  I'm talking about 3.0 phish but thanks for playing. 

[phil]

Reading is fun

Sigworthy

[sophist]

I think it's fucking hilarious that two people posted Trey isn't watching the crowd after I post an interview with Trey and he exclaims he does watch the crowd.  That's what he has always done.  From the moment I first laid my eyes on Trey at a show to this very point in time that's who I watch at Phish.  Never anyone else.  His trademark move is picking one person in the back of the room and playing to them, and the theory is that if you get that person off, then you get everyone who is in front of that person. 

i never said trey doesnt watch the crowd, and we have all heard him say things like the above.
what else is he gonna look at.  i dont see how that has any correlation to young kids loving rawk peaks and hating jamz.

please tell me what i can do, in case i am that person he picks to look at, so that i can conduct trey into an epic jam.
is there a secret dance move or signal i can show him?  it would be quite the burden to have the whole show rest on my actions, and i dont want to fuck it up.

If you think I'm suggesting that you or the bulk of the crowd changing their actions would create epic jams, again, you don't get my point.  It's not about that.  It's never been about trying to change what they're doing.  What I want from them and what they do are mutually exclusive. 

[batleon]

I should've left DMB out of this.  I understand if I've lost all credibility. Carry on.

Wait, I don't get a haiku?

[kellerb]

I should've left DMB out of this.  I understand if I've lost all credibility. Carry on.

Wait, I don't get a haiku?

the icon is clapping in haiku meter

[blatboom]

I love how Gumbo has exactly (1) post in this thread.

[Marmar]

I think a reason many of us "haters" hate on the stuff they are doing is this (and this is just my opinion, which is like an asshole....everyone has one, some are just tighter than others):

I've got no problem with the rawk peak.....I've got no problem with well played songs.......I've got no problem whatsoever with ambient sections......I've got no problem with jamming/aimless noodling/noize.....

What I have a problem with is the formatting that appears to have reared its ugly head with them....Sure there is some spontaneity, in regards to song selection....but the format of the sets, it bothers me. It seems cookie-cutter anymore.....ya know what I mean? Sure, go back in time and you can make the same argument....Mike's Groove....etc.....but things nowadays......DWD opens set 2, Antelope/Zero closes set 1.....It's getting too cookie cutter.....

They're having fun...which is all a part of finding themselves again, I get that. 100%. It's hard to NOT have fun at a show because of the fact that it is what it is....a traveling circus....but that isn't the only component of a concert.....the MUSIC.....they are out there playing songs, which is ok when they are played well.....but where is the MUSIC that I came to hear them create? In my opinion, they haven't really played any MUSIC since they've returned....Even back when they were rawk peaking the piss outta things (ie- when Trey could actually pull it off ability wise 91-95) there was always something MUSICAL going on....Now it feels like there's a format....and it (to me anyways) feels like MUSIC isn't an important part of that format. Rawking a song till it gets the ripcord is the norm....or it just teeters into ambient noize to "segue" into the next song.....

The real interesting thing about that though, is back then there was a format to an extent.....Trey has said it numerous times.....meticulously going over setlists to make sure songs flowed from one key to the next.....creating tension and release.....telling a MUSICAL story....So I guess them NOT having a format has kinda put them into a rut so to speak....only as far as the format of their sets and the lack of cohesion from one song to the next.....I truly feel like this is why the sets are all over the place and there's no opportunity to jam....

....they have NO CLUE where they are going from one song to the next.

...Oh....and my other problem is execution.....waaaaaaaaay too many sour notes and huge miscues......

[Alumni]

The real interesting thing about that though, is back then there was a format to an extent.....Trey has said it numerous times.....meticulously going over setlists to make sure songs flowed from one key to the next.....creating tension and release.....telling a MUSICAL story....So I guess them NOT having a format has kinda put them into a rut so to speak....only as far as the format of their sets and the lack of cohesion from one song to the next.....I truly feel like this is why the sets are all over the place and there's no opportunity to jam....

Yep. There's still spontaneity, but it's the kind that leads to No Quarter > Party Time

[WhatstheUse?]

Before I get to the meat of the question, I have to lol at gumbo, playing vet to some teenagers.
Of all the people to give young kids grief for being excited about songs that they heard at a show. 
Gaaaaaah, omgwtfzipzapdoodaa.......payjor...........etc.  "I don't know how many times ive seen them," sure dude. 
I'll tell you... a handful of 3.0.

Another big lol at the fact that you were disappointed in these 'kids' for not being able to tell you that they were playing 46 Days, when you didn't know yourself.

Anyway, I think the theory that phish is playing like they do, because the whole crowd is 'kidz that luv rawk peak', is utter bullshit.  There have always been young kids at shows, always.  I was one, you were one, we all were one.   Did you know the entire phish catalog at your first show?  Doubt it, unless your first was 09 or on.  Does mike go out on his cart and report back to trey, "lots of young kids out there, I bet they want to hear rock peaks!"  No, that doesn't even make sense.  Younger folks coming to shows who may not know that much about them know they are supposed be jam kings;  they are not infamous for songs like zero.

Since when do 'kids want phish rock peaks?'  it's a made up dichotomy.  Plenty of other rock bands out there for that fix.  They are startup hippie kids who want to hear the legendary phish do some legendary things.

Does phish  feed off audience energy?  Of course.  Any performer on any  stage ever has.  Do you think trey can see a handful of people walking to the bathroom at any point in any night when he steps out of the comfort zone and thinks, "well, THAT dude is going to piss, better peak this shit so he wont leave!"  No.  that's just as stupid.  Audience reaction happens during peaks naturally, always has.  When they jam is when the audience gets quiet and boogies.  I haven't seen a shortage of boogieing in 3.0, except maybe during TTE, which is why its on the shelf.  I really think its just the way trey wants to play right now.

Phish jams have always come to a peak.  Its their thing.  One of my fav yem's, 12/31/93, is straight peakage.  Read through some of my show club reviews, especially in my fav year of '95, and you will read me say, "another false peak" quite often. 

Imo, they didn't want to pick up where they left off, in drug induced drawn out jams that didn't go anywhere.  They went back to square one, the drawing board,  ie lots of songs, rocked hard, with glimpses of big jams, and build on that for when it feels right.  Trey has said the same recently in respects to getting back to basics.  And as far as his other quotes about 'not wanting to become a caricature or nostalgia act,' that was the voice of an addict grasping for things to blame on why his life had become unmanageable and he had to quit because it was all blowing up in his face.

Phish is not a nostalgia act.  They write new tunes, play variations on old ones every night, find inspiration in other bands and play their tunes, have a blast, and still throw a big party everynight , like they have been doing since their first.

Well said, I agree with just about everything.

[WhatstheUse?]

The band is still spewing with musicality.

The most basic "rawk peak" jam out of, say 46 Days, is still CHALKED FULL of impressive musical ideas.  There's TONS of bands that do the rawk peak thing, but none of those bands do it as well as Phish. 

Any musician should be able to hear this.  The 4 of them are still playing off of each other with incredible listening skills.  The fills that Mike throws in right before the HUUUGGGEE peaks are phenomenal.  The way Fishman/Trey seemingly become one connected unit together is nothing short of amazing.

Seriously impressive musicianship is still happening.  It's not like 2009 came around and all of a sudden they all suck @ their instruments....

[DoW]

The band is still spewing with musicality.

The most basic "rawk peak" jam out of, say 46 Days, is still CHALKED FULL of impressive musical ideas.  There's TONS of bands that do the rawk peak thing, but none of those bands do it as well as Phish. 

Any musician should be able to hear this.  The 4 of them are still playing off of each other with incredible listening skills.  The fills that Mike throws in right before the HUUUGGGEE peaks are phenomenal.  The way Fishman/Trey seemingly become one connected unit together is nothing short of amazing.

Seriously impressive musicianship is still happening.  It's not like 2009 came around and all of a sudden they all suck @ their instruments....

I get what you are saying but this philosophy is sure nto working on their segues.  if they listent o each other, they should be able to have a smooth segue.  there have been a few in 3.0 but they have been few and far between.

it sort of supports Art's comment about them not knowing where they are going from song to song.

the smooth segue is what I really miss the most.

[WhatstheUse?]

The band is still spewing with musicality.

The most basic "rawk peak" jam out of, say 46 Days, is still CHALKED FULL of impressive musical ideas.  There's TONS of bands that do the rawk peak thing, but none of those bands do it as well as Phish. 

Any musician should be able to hear this.  The 4 of them are still playing off of each other with incredible listening skills.  The fills that Mike throws in right before the HUUUGGGEE peaks are phenomenal.  The way Fishman/Trey seemingly become one connected unit together is nothing short of amazing.

Seriously impressive musicianship is still happening.  It's not like 2009 came around and all of a sudden they all suck @ their instruments....

I get what you are saying but this philosophy is sure nto working on their segues.  if they listent o each other, they should be able to have a smooth segue.  there have been a few in 3.0 but they have been few and far between.

it sort of supports Art's comment about them not knowing where they are going from song to song.

the smooth segue is what I really miss the most.

Yeah, I feel ya. The segue problems seem to occur from a lack of patience (by Trey)

They're listening to eachother, but the second that Trey hears something that makes him want to move on -- he does so..... un-smoothly

[guyforget]

I think it's fucking hilarious that two people posted Trey isn't watching the crowd after I post an interview with Trey and he exclaims he does watch the crowd.  That's what he has always done.  From the moment I first laid my eyes on Trey at a show to this very point in time that's who I watch at Phish.  Never anyone else.  His trademark move is picking one person in the back of the room and playing to them, and the theory is that if you get that person off, then you get everyone who is in front of that person. 

i didnt say exactly that he didnt watch people.  of course he watches people when he can see them, what the hell else does he have to look at unless he goes all eddie van halen and stands w/ his back to the crowd.  what i did say was that half the time he's got blinding lights shining into his eyes when he's looking out into a dark room. i dont think that anyone could really argue that he doesnt.  you know what its like to stand in a lighted area trying to look out into the dark, right?  you cant see shit. 

and, not to nitpick, but in the quote you cited, trey mentioned that he judges crowd reactions by what he hears, not sees. 

Trey quote on crowd watching: 

And I can tell that from the reaction I hear from the audience.

Reading is fundamental dude.