some thoughts

[antelope19]

For me, Right sentiment, wrong thread to post it in.

[Thrillhouse]

I find it pretty disheartening to read that people are under the impression  the newer fans (3.0ers) do not have the patients for, and more specifically do not want or seek the deep moments and the truly awe inspiring jams where you are witnessing them figure it out. (Sorry for the run on sentence, I'm new here.)  Yes of course there is some what of a change in the drug scene...maul dawgs rule supreme and I find less and less people trying to find the mysterious head space I so crave.

Do I see a shit ton of people dipping mollie and blowing K? Yes.  But I equally see just as many people standing completely still, eyes closed, listening, not just hearing but actually absorbing

Ramsay - I do not "love the state of this band."  I accept the state of this band and make the best of it.

To put it best, there was a time when I thought seeing these four on stage together was something completely out of grasp.  I had already accepted that Jerry was long gone, and that if I could I would charge up my flux capacitor with 1.21 gigawatts and go "back in tiiiiime",  but I can't.

What I can do is go to a Phish fest on the 4th of July weekend in my mid twenties and relish in the fact that this was an impossibility at one point.

[emay]

PG really hits the nail on the head. I feel that  gets comfortable with their sound at the time and masters that sound during each of their eras.
93 was the speedjazz
97 they were wrapped up in the funk so they played some heavy cowfunk/spacefunk
2011 they are inspired by ballads and showin phans that they can still rock and  :rawk:. With all the stones, little feat, talking heads covers, they are trying to be a rock band, not a explorative improv jam band.

[PIE-GUY]

(Sorry for the run on sentence, I'm new here.)

Noobness and grammar are independent. That you are a newb as been established elsewhere. That you can't write a decent sentence... well, I'm not sure what can be said.

[WhatstheUse?]

That you can't write a decent sentence... well, I'm not sure what can be said.

It's all the dr00gz maaaaann!  I think it means that he's a 3.0 newb who just does a ton of mollie & K @ shows, gets bored during the psychedelic jams, and talks over all the music.  No different than all of us 3.0ers...

[runawayjimbo]

I find it pretty disheartening to read that people are under the impression  the newer fans (3.0ers) do not have the patients for...

I didn't make it past here.

[Thrillhouse]

I find it pretty disheartening to read that people are under the impression  the newer fans (3.0ers) do not have the patients for...

I didn't make it past here.

Understandable....I am fairly ashamed at this point in the bashing....well done.

[cactusfan]

to blame the audience for the state of band is to say a lot about your own personal mindset than about the band.

since when did phish crowds watch with patient rapture an epic jam? i remember halloween '98 where that third set bored at least a quarter of the crowd if not more. there's always been people like that at shows. phish is a party for a whole lot of people and always has been.

i also don't get this notion of picking on 'kids' because they haven't been obsessed with phish all their lives. don't we WANT newbies to be coming to shows and getting into this band? everyone here was a n00b once. everyone here was that kid at a show going, 'what was that called? tweezer? whoa dude! that was amazing!'

for a tired old nostalgia act, this band sure attracts a lot of new fans. and that's a GOOD thing. the newbs will catch on eventually and become a bunch of complaining jerks like us soon enough. why not be happy that some people in the crowd love hearing Sample? it's a good song, especially if you haven't heard it at 100 shows and listened to it ten thousand times on tape.

is the band uncomfortable on stage? scared to jam? i don't see it. trey is a spazz and always has been. sober trey has a mind that wanders. he likes to play songs. if this truly bothered the rest of the band, they would do something about it. instead, they seem to be having a great time playing a lot of songs and not jamming much (at least as WE interpret jamming).

as for perfect sets, one issue might be the sheer length of sets these days. a lot of the best sets of '97 were an hour, maybe 70 minutes tops. these days a typical set is an hour and a half, and at superall an hour forty-five. with no giant jams to anchor such a set, it's not easy to create a non-stop perfectly flowing thing of beauty. the band seems more into just playing lots of songs. because they love their songs. which is also not a bad thing.

[runawayjimbo]

I find it pretty disheartening to read that people are under the impression  the newer fans (3.0ers) do not have the patients for...

I didn't make it past here.

Understandable....I am fairly ashamed at this point in the bashing....well done.

:hereitisyousentimentalbastard

I did appreciate you correctly identified 1.21 gigawatts from a movie that probably came out before you were born though.

[JPhishman]

I will say that there may be something larger going on here than just Phish and their audience.  Another thing I think is unique to the Phish scene, or any scene that has its roots in psychedelic use, is that it is reflection of something much deeper.  That is, a scene like Phish mirrors the current state of society, or beyond that the evolution of human consciousness, in ways that a normal rock show does not.  And when we really look at ourselves, what is the state of human consciousness these days?  From my view it ain't pretty, we are distracted, confused and ultimately a reckless and careless lot.  So that's what you get a Phish show too, a bunch of kids that are there to get wasted and "rage" and don't really have the patience for a truly deep and meaningful experience.  So in the respect that a Phish show is kind of a microcosm of where humanity is at right now, so too is the music a reflection of what's going on in the crowd. 

Deep thoughts, by Hicks.

That's a pretty interesting case you make. One of the best I've heard for the "fans don't have the patience for the deep jamz" theory. I still think it's more Trey than the fans, but it's hard to say what he can pick up on when he's onstage rocking the fuck out. With a huge crowd like that, and you're playing music, can you really tell how much talking or screwing around is going on?

[sophist]

I stopped reading posts when I saw that several of you mistook my comments as picking on the new phans/you directly.  Again, like I said, if you take this as some sort of bitching or somehow it's applied to everyone that started seeing Phish after the 90's, then you're not getting me or my point.  Before posting a retort, read my post (entirely) and think for a moment.  I even at the end of it point this out, "Finally, this is just my general observation of what I think has happened and why the shift in the crowd has occurred.  Obviously exceptions exist, and younger fans are out there that do go with this same philosophy of how it is played. "  That's not a fucking absolute, it doesn't mean all new fans are one way.  It really becomes complicated to have an open discussion with some of you when you can't even have a conversation without taking offense/going on the defensive or somehow worrying about how you're perceived by me or other fans.    So I'm not saying all 3.0 or 2.0 fans, or even really anyone here.  If you're here posting with me, I'd bet good odds that you're one of those people that has a huge love of Phish like all of us here, and you're not who I'm talking about.  In fact, here comes a shocking fact, you're in the minority of fans.  Most fans don't obsess like us.  I know, fucking crazy right?   So take a chill pill, pull those panties out of your tightened ass crack, and let's get to back having a conservation rather than laying down defensive prose like you're on Phish trial. 

Cactusfan,
I'm not saying it's all the crowd's fault.  I'm not evening blaming fans.  All I did was point out an observation.  I think the mindset of the fans has changed and with that how they approach the music of Phish has changed the concert experience of Phish.  I think Phish sees this and at times adapts to it.  I don't doubt that they (Phish) aren't doing what they want to do.  Clearly, they are.  I don't think it's just their decision alone that has changed things, it's this combination of factors. 

Ramsay - I do not "love the state of this band."  I accept the state of this band and make the best of it.


FWIW, I don't think the fanbase has a single thing to do with how Phish is playing right now. I think they are playing exactly how THEY want to play.  Trey is just sober and completely ADD.  He wants the rawk and then he wants to move on to the next song. It's unfortunate that is not what we want.

I also think it's a bunch of bullshit that people claim the current fanbase doesn't have patience for explorative jams, and that is the reason phish isn't doing it.  I don't see that at all. 

Fair enough on accepting it (though loving 3.0 isn't a bad thing in my book, so I wouldn't take it that way if you or anyone else loved it). 

Sorry buddy, but I think you need to go watch some youtube footage of 3.0.  It's all over the fucking audience recordings too.  People talk a lot more than I've ever seen or noticed (I know people always talk at concerts, so I'm not implying that a time existed when Phish fans were all ears and no partying).  Even in the very front of the pits.  At Alpharetta and Portsmouth I couldn't help but notice people talking when anything would deviate from a loud rawk jam.  Their is an inverse relationship between the volume of the band and the attentiveness of the crowd.

eta: fixed some typos.   

[UncleEbinezer]

I will say that there may be something larger going on here than just Phish and their audience.  Another thing I think is unique to the Phish scene, or any scene that has its roots in psychedelic use, is that it is reflection of something much deeper.  That is, a scene like Phish mirrors the current state of society, or beyond that the evolution of human consciousness, in ways that a normal rock show does not.  And when we really look at ourselves, what is the state of human consciousness these days?  From my view it ain't pretty, we are distracted, confused and ultimately a reckless and careless lot.  So that's what you get a Phish show too, a bunch of kids that are there to get wasted and "rage" and don't really have the patience for a truly deep and meaningful experience.  So in the respect that a Phish show is kind of a microcosm of where humanity is at right now, so too is the music a reflection of what's going on in the crowd. 

Deep thoughts, by Hicks.

That's a pretty interesting case you make. One of the best I've heard for the "fans don't have the patience for the deep jamz" theory. I still think it's more Trey than the fans, but it's hard to say what he can pick up on when he's onstage rocking the fuck out. With a huge crowd like that, and you're playing music, can you really tell how much talking or screwing around is going on?

I think yes.  Trey doesn't dop the eyes closed/roll into the back of his head thing much anymore.  I think he does the crowd more than ever, probably needs to.

I agree with Hicks' thoughts completely. 




Also, I am still pleased at the level of constructive discussion.   

[roggae]

Does any of thes really matter? If you don't like what they are doing just stop listening and fretting. Just use this newfound free time to check out a new band or an old band you'd forgotten about. But please don't waste your valuable time dicking around with Phish if you're not into what's going on.

Simply my though process.

[WhatstheUse?]

I would argue that when on stage (especially in the size arenas/sheds that phish is playing)  the amount of "chatter" going on has little effect on the band.

You have tons of monitors blowing in your face.  Can you really notice if a crowd is being chatty during the middle of a song?  Sure, you notice when there are crowd uproars, and you probably notice if the crowd becomes near silent, but I doubt that crowd "chatter" or screwing around is somehting that the band takes much notice of.

Could be wrong though, I sure as hell have never played on a stage the size they have @ the decibel levels they are putting out.  It just seems unlikely they can hear much other than themselves when on stage.

[Hicks]

I would argue that when on stage (especially in the size arenas/sheds that phish is playing)  the amount of "chatter" going on has little effect on the band.

You have tons of monitors blowing in your face.  Can you really notice if a crowd is being chatty during the middle of a song?  Sure, you notice when there are crowd uproars, and you probably notice if the crowd becomes near silent, but I doubt that crowd "chatter" or screwing around is somehting that the band takes much notice of.

Could be wrong though, I sure as hell have never played on a stage the size they have @ the decibel levels they are putting out.  It just seems unlikely they can hear much other than themselves when on stage.

Hearing is but one sense, and what I'm talking about is something more intangible like a feeling or vibe, tapping into that is what it's all about right?