06/17 - Bader Field - Atlantic City, NJ - Post-Show Discussion

[sophist]

I'm not saying you are lying.  What I am saying is that it doesn't take much to hear that what goes on in a Kimock jam is much more complex than anything Phish is doing these days.  And what you like more doesn't translate to being better musicianship.  That's all.  It's okay to admit that Phish has reached a level of inferior musicianship to other live acts. 

[WhatstheUse?]

I disagree with that statement. I do not feel Phish is inferior to other live acts today.

[sophist]

I disagree with that statement. I do not feel Phish is inferior to other live acts today.

and that's my point exactly.  You think this because you like it more, not because they actually are. 

[mbw]

Sometimes its like, critics, you know, its like whats the deal?  Sometimes its like they're almost offended by the fact that so many people would be enjoying something that they don't like.

[WhatstheUse?]

I disagree with that statement. I do not feel Phish is inferior to other live acts today.

and that's my point exactly.  You think this because you like it more, not because they actually are.

Actually, I like Phish more because I ACTUALLY feel they are the best.  But I understand that you have different opinion and would never be able to agree with that assessment and that is just fine.   We have different opinions on what music is "best" -- that's not very shocking for me to understand...

[gah]

I do find it ironic that people argue in a virtual world over whose sense of reality is more true.

[DoW]

I do find it ironic that people argue in a virtual world over whose sense of reality is more true.

+k

honestly, it is a discussion forum and it would be pretty boring if we all agreed.  a slong as we keep it civil, it's ok to read every once in a while.  I get sick of it after a while though.

I've actually enjoyed this tour but I still have 2 more AC shows to listen to.
I've clearly lowered the bar and I'm clearly not dropping the cash for 10 shows a tour anymore, but not only has it been fun, I've enjoyed the music.

[gainesvillegreen]

Sometimes its like, critics, you know, its like whats the deal?  Sometimes its like they're almost offended by the fact that so many people would be enjoying something that they don't like.

I lol'ed.

Also did this  :-) at all this Kimock talk. I thought RJ and I were the only ones who listened to him on this board.

[sophist]

Sometimes its like, critics, you know, its like whats the deal?  Sometimes its like they're almost offended by the fact that so many people would be enjoying something that they don't like.

It's not about liking or not liking it.  That's not the debate.  I think you're missing what I am getting at as well. 

I disagree with that statement. I do not feel Phish is inferior to other live acts today.

and that's my point exactly.  You think this because you like it more, not because they actually are.

Actually, I like Phish more because I ACTUALLY feel they are the best.  But I understand that you have different opinion and would never be able to agree with that assessment and that is just fine.   We have different opinions on what music is "best" -- that's not very shocking for me to understand...

Scott, again, I don't think you're grasping what I am getting at here.  It's not about what you like best.  That's not the debate.  I've never been one to tell you or anyone for that matter what to like.  That isn't what I am driving at here.  I have my own preferences as well.  Just because one likes something doesn't make it the best it can be.  It just means you like it.  You draw no difference in that when there is a big difference.  What I look for in music or what you look for in music are subject to what we want out of it.  And again, that isn't what I am driving at, what I am driving at is recognizing that while something may not be your cup of tea or what you want, it is and can be better.  And that's not debatable.  Phish isn't nearly as tight as they could be.  We could count the flubs each show and calculate an error percentage from the total number of notes if we wanted to do so, that's objective.  There is no debating they play a lot of slop these days, or that it could be better.  You've even said so yourself that the musical bar has been lowered.  With that logic, to me, it's very telling in that I see a clear difference between what should be and what actually comes from the stage.   

How you feel about the slop, that's on you.  And that's fine if someone likes or dislikes how they play their music.  What I see is a problem is a failure to recognize that people are playing their music better than how Phish plays their music.  I saw the Boss this year, I'm not a fan at all, but when I look at what he does, how the show unfolds, and the overall presentation I can't deny that he puts on a better show than Phish.  Would I rather see a shitty 3.0 show over Springsteen?  Yes.  No hesitation on my end to answer that question.  That's my point.

I do find it ironic that people argue in a virtual world over whose sense of reality is more true.

This isn't about my or Scott's sense of reality, it's not a preference style argument.  No where in here am I saying my vantage point of one band or the other is more correct.  What I think of 3.0 is moot to this discussion, same with how Scott feels about it.  What I am getting at is the idea of recognizing that just because something isn't your musical cup of tea doesn't make it inferior.  I think there is a bung load of live music out there that matches and surpasses the Phish concert experience, and it's about going into a show understanding that what you get is a product of that band and their delivery.  And that's how it should be gauged, not based on who brings the dissident funk or the type II jams or what an individual wants to hear. 

[DoW]

Sophist, your post is way too long to read but I am sure what I am about to say you'd agree with.
We all know where on the spectrum scott will fall on 3.0 shows.  We all know where aug will fall.
Music taste is so subjective.  What I take from this board is I can name the 3 or 4 people that meet my music taste the closest and if I see them recommend something, I'll probably check it out.  I'll still listen to make my own judgement though.
We've all been here long enough to know who feels how about what and we all know that people's opinions are not going to change.
personally, I like  but I think our musical taste is very different.  that's not the reason I hate him though.  I hate him because the jauntee won't cover moe. just one song.

[WhatstheUse?]

I'm not really grasping your point Sophist. Your saying we could calculate the amount of mistakes in a Phish show and that would objectively tell us that it is worse or better than another live acts show?  You think Bruce is a "better" live act than phish simply because he plays his repetoire with less mistakes? I guess I'm just not seeing that. To me, nailing compositions is only one tiny part of what makes a live show "good". 

I have no problem admitting Phish is far past their prime. But I'm not comparing Phish against themselves when deciding who is the best act around.

[Hicks]

As much as going back and forth on this stuff is useless, if somebody watched both the Radiohead and Phish Bonnaroo webcasts and concluded that the Phish show was  the"better" of the two, then this is all I have to say to that:

[blatboom]

As much as going back and forth on this stuff is useless, if somebody watched both the Radiohead and Phish Bonnaroo webcasts and concluded that the Phish show was  the"better" of the two, then this is all I have to say to that:

love that gif

[Augustus]

I thought Phish was all about the *LUV*, guys?  :cry:

[McGrupp]

I'm quitting message boards forever.

Pretty much because of Sophist.