08/26 - Blockbuster/Verizon/whatever - Charlotte, NC - Post-Show Discussion

[sophist]

I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime.  This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry.    Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before.  I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time.  And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way.  I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it. 

I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.

I was wondering what your thoughts were on the show, because you didn't seem to be digging it at all.

I'm not saying this in a snarky way, or in the way that I or perhaps others have said it in the past, but, if you don't like it, don't go. It's simple. Of course, it will take the act of going to shows to realize what you don't like about them. From what you just said about not "getting it" or really digging it, it seems clear that Phish 3.0 just isn't for you. I've come to a point (in my jaded n00bdom) where I see what's happening with 3.0, too. But I still love the songs. You were sitting down during weekapaug. I was dancing. That's very telling right there.

I think you (and others) confuse my listening with discontent.  I spent most of last night studying the stage and the crowd.  I like to watch Trey, and watch what he does to the crowd.  So I spend a little less time dancing, and a lot of time watching and listening. 

Yes, I sat during the weekapaug because I knew they were going to run straight through it, and for me, that's half assing it with gimmicks.  I think had it just been the Mike's -> Tweezer -> Weekapaug I would of been super pumped, but for me, that got weighted down with 3.0'try style setlisting by the band.  What would get me is that something out of the Tweezer comes out of nowhere and they gain control of the crowd and the momentum builds perfectly only to halt themselves by stepping on their own toes.  And they're not learning from it.  How is that happening?  It simply baffles me.  Add to it, I feel like they really are better than say last summer, but oddly enough it also feels way more nostalgic to me than say summer or fall '09. 

[McGrupp]

I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime.  This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry.    Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before.  I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time.  And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way.  I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it. 

I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.

I was wondering what your thoughts were on the show, because you didn't seem to be digging it at all.

I'm not saying this in a snarky way, or in the way that I or perhaps others have said it in the past, but, if you don't like it, don't go. It's simple. Of course, it will take the act of going to shows to realize what you don't like about them. From what you just said about not "getting it" or really digging it, it seems clear that Phish 3.0 just isn't for you. I've come to a point (in my jaded n00bdom) where I see what's happening with 3.0, too. But I still love the songs. You were sitting down during weekapaug. I was dancing. That's very telling right there.

I think you (and others) confuse my listening with discontent.  I spent most of last night studying the stage and the crowd.  I like to watch Trey, and watch what he does to the crowd.  So I spend a little less time dancing, and a lot of time watching and listening. 

Yes, I sat during the weekapaug because I knew they were going to run straight through it, and for me, that's half assing it with gimmicks.  I think had it just been the Mike's -> Tweezer -> Weekapaug I would of been super pumped, but for me, that got weighted down with 3.0'try style setlisting by the band.  What would get me is that something out of the Tweezer comes out of nowhere and they gain control of the crowd and the momentum builds perfectly only to halt themselves by stepping on their own toes.  And they're not learning from it.  How is that happening?  It simply baffles me.  Add to it, I feel like they really are better than say last summer, but oddly enough it also feels way more nostalgic to me than say summer or fall '09.

There's been over 3 years for the optimism/afterglow of the reunion to wear off and for the real nostalgia-act-ness to set in. Summer 09 was totally different and exciting. But I do think they are a better band now than they were then.

[mbw]

While its a nice soaring jam, trey really whales the hell out of this tweezer.

[emay]

The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe  :rawk: ragin song > ballad >  funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad >  :rawk: >  funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.

[sophist]

While its a nice soaring jam, trey really whales the hell out of this tweezer.

I was more excited that they went for it.  That is what it is all about to me, at least taking that sort of risk. 

[tet]

looks like a fun show, especially the encore:

[sunrisevt]

I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime.  This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry.    Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before.  I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time.  And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way.  I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it. 

I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.

Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.

[sophist]

I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime.  This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry.    Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before.  I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time.  And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way.  I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it. 

I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.

Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.

If you think this is about entitlement, well, you're being a fucking idiot.  This hasn't ever been about my ego, but thanks for playing the part of the pompous apologist.  You can go fuck yourself along with anyone else that is trying to write off my thoughts on the band because they can't handle my humble opinion.  I stated how they make me feel.  Isn't that what is about anyway?  I'm not telling you how to feel.  Sounds like your butt hurt about all the shit in your personal life and you're projecting it onto me.   I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, or even listen to me.  Don't like what I'm posting, put me on ignore.  But to just insult me without substance, well, frankly I expected a lot more from someone like you. 

[sunrisevt]

Right -- way to rise above, kid.

/out

[GBL]

Yes!

[Gumbo72203]

Phan, I have to sympathize with you a little bit.

What McGrupp said about you sitting during Weekapaug is something i struggle with a lot too.  We get so used to the orgasmic dizziness that comes from when Phish are locked into the tripping-space of music where it actually fucks with the space-time continuum and makes you feel like your upways-sidedown, that we forget there is a basis from which those experiences jettison:  THE SONG.

Weeekapaug is a great song man.  When played tightly, that shit, in and of itself, is a peak. 

The thing that I often find that I forget a lot, is that Phish songs, ARE PEAKS.  Themselves.  They, regardless of anything, are climaxes. 

Like, Mike's Song.  When the jam hits, that shit is epic.  Or, should be epic.  But we get jaded by hearing it too often.  When the Hood drum roll happens, we should get creaming ourselves, because Phish is starting to play Harry Hood.  But we've heard it too often.  We know what to expect, and we expect what we know, and know that we expect what we can anticipate the band to deliver.

Predictability is rampant, and thus the magic is worn off and collected in a bucket and then tossed out with the fish that didn't make the cut.  Except that now, there are 16 year old kids and 22 year old noobs who pick up that tossed-out bucket of fish, and proclaim it the greatest thing since the iPhone3.  (there are 3 iphones, right?)

and Phish want to be the fish that are as great as the iPhone3, whether they know it or not.  And its by virtue of pragmatism and efficiency that they will allot their energies to the courses of action which elevate themselves to gods most easily.

When 20,000 mindless noobs think you're better than Jimi Hendrix because you play Suzy Greenberg, Meatstick, Boogie On, and Sample in a Jar, why on EARTH would you EVER EVER EVER want to spend an ounce of energy plowing through Ghost -> Seven Below -> Waves to reach transcendence, when you might not get there, because of the fact that those songs carry with them all sorts of unknowns? 

Nobody wants surprises anymore.  Nobody wants unpredictability.  And with that, we lose the gem that was the magic of Phish, the Phish who called to the gods every night, and brought back with them the 7/22/03 Gumbo, the 12/16/99 Tweezer, the 7/4/00 Gotta Jibboo, the 12/31/98 Mike's Song, or the 11/17/97 Ghost.  The SPECIAL SAUCE stuff.  It takes balls to go out on the edge to reach for those things, and it takes an audience of 20,000 people pushing you to that edge, who WANT YOU to go to that edge, and see what you can reach.

But today, those 20,000 people don't even know there is an edge.  They just wanna yell "SUUUUZAAAAYYY" and throw glowsticks in the air. 


Sucks being a Phish fan.  haha

[mbw]

You really like to blame everyone but the 4 guys on stage for the state of the music.

[mehead]

The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe  :rawk: ragin song > ballad >  funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad >  :rawk: >  funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.

just curious - why did you think we had a new kind of Phish after that run?

[mehead]

I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime.  This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry.    Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before.  I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time.  And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way.  I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it. 

I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.

Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.

If you think this is about entitlement, well, you're being a fucking idiot.  This hasn't ever been about my ego, but thanks for playing the part of the pompous apologist.  You can go fuck yourself along with anyone else that is trying to write off my thoughts on the band because they can't handle my humble opinion.  I stated how they make me feel.  Isn't that what is about anyway?  I'm not telling you how to feel.  Sounds like your butt hurt about all the shit in your personal life and you're projecting it onto me.   I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, or even listen to me.  Don't like what I'm posting, put me on ignore.  But to just insult me without substance, well, frankly I expected a lot more from someone like you.

It's all good mang.  I'm surprised it took you this long to realize that you and the band are not on the same page - just sayin'.

[kellerb]

Some Red River up at the flood-plain level in this thread right now.  All of you with lady-friends be wary.  When it flows, they know to take the dirt road.