9/11> a discussion

[sophist]

I'd hardly call any of this credible, and I raise the question:  If this was so secret and the bankers are so powerful, why would they allow him to publicly speak about their plan? 
I guess they gave him cancer, that has to be the only feasible explanation.   :roll:   

Russo had cancer because of poor genetics.  The bankers whole idea according to Russo is, to have everybody chipped.  Personally I don't see the idea of chipping going very far, only those who are easily brainwashed.

That was sarcasm.  I wasn't being serious about the cancer comment. 

fiat currency always ends up blowing out....a crucial point is when the increase in money supply or the drop in basic money stock makes it impossible for a government to improve its financial position so everyone has less buying power.....my youtube post pointed that out....hyperinflation effectively wipes out the purchasing power of private and public savings, distorts the economy in favor of extreme consumption and hoarding of real assets....and take a look at what's going on right now......try and find silver bullion (19 major suppliers are OUT OF STOCK).....look at the price of gold/silver/platinum vs. the dollar.....banks folding.....no investment.....higher taxes....etc....it's happening right now.


Hungary...
Yugoslavia....
Mexico....
Greece...
Russia....
Germany.....

All their economies blew out.....fiat currency is BAD, BAD, BAD......and it's one of the main reasons I moved ALL my assets into private gold/silver and their related holdings.....my ass is protected from losing ALL my savings as the currency devalues more and more with each passing day.....it's private, and non-taxable.....so the government can kiss my lilly white ass as they try and destroy the middle class.

I'm in a hurry, so I don't have the time to properly respond to your post, and I will respond when I get more time. 

[Marmar]

I mean I'm no economic specialist...but it smells like

I can see that the US, is heading into a very dangerous, very fascist place......this is NOT how this country was meant to be.....and EVERYTHING......every stinking current economic problem and loss of freedom and liberty begins with what happened on 9/11.....

You know who Paul Craig Roberts is?......read his website about what HE thinks is happening....check out this one.....this guy KNOWS what he is talking about.....you can not argue the facts he presents.....

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/

Like I said...I know I'm no economic guru....but....everything the FED does reminds me of this.....

[sophist]

So I scanned that site rather quickly yesterday, and it looks interesting to say the least, I will take the time to really read some articles sometime this week. 

As for your economic points, I have studied monetary policy before, but I'm really rusty on my formulas and their respective rules.  So I'll need to brush up before I can address the specific comments you made a few days ago.  I remember something about a specific formula and theory created in the early 1900's that addressed the issue you mention (Fiat money and inflation), but again I need to look it up and I'll get back to you soon.     

edit to add:
A quick search yielded this formula, which is what I referenced:
Quantity Theory of Money:

You can use the formula to gauge inflation, but I don't have my notes in front of me, so I don't remember the correlation between the variables and inflation.  The theory is popular, but it does contain an abundance of flaws due to assumptions.  I'll look at my notes when I get home (I'm on campus right now, so I cannot access them), and figure out the correlation.   

[Guyute]

I just read the first one on Bear Sterns and I have to say it is full of woefully inaccruate information.  The amount of the bailout, what JP had in couterparty risk with Bear, most of the data is grossly inflated.  Not to mention that JP, not the taxpayer took on the burden.  JP had to be there  because the fed can't loan to investment banks and there needed to be a conduit for the money.  The loan was made with the knowledge that JP would follow with a buyout.

Let's just look at the couterparty risk numbers alone.  TRILLIONS?  Bear had what, about $350-400 billion in assests with $65-70 billion in real capital?  That makes trillions in JP Counterparty impossible, at most the total risk is in the $700 billion range across all the Hedge Funds and others running through Bear.  JP alone could not have had even all of that.

Then he goes King of the Financial Theives citing inaccurate information about how gold in valued, proper investment strategy and the assumption that the funds aren't already diversified.  We have a group within the market, be it the large public players, they dove in too far into the sub-prime area, but a lot of the private firms didn't take this risk or minimized it with diversification.  Again, a broad sweeping statement rather than a focused accurate one.

The more I read the more inaccuracies there are in his statements.  He is very much a screaming conspircy theorist which would be fine if there were facts used.  He seems to start some arguments with fact and then blows them up into outright falsehoods.

[Marmar]

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/content.php?topicId=4

If anyone knows about how badly gold is nor being priced properly...he would be the one

[Guyute]

I agree, his credentials are impressive.  It was more that there is a lack of use of fact in some of the posts.  Claiming they were  but an understanding of institutional investment shows they can't be true.

[Caravan2001]

not that anybody needs to be reminded of this shit  :|  BUT, I found these pix I took from my from the front steps of my house and thought I would share them, just cause I thought I had lost them forever, and found them on my HD last week....The first one is from 8:30AM and the second from around 9:30AM....

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

I was reminded of this thread by Susep in a thread about Miami's Phish run, and I would like to respond to it now.

Basically, I think that we have failed as a nation in the last ten years, and I would like to outline why I believe this.

Ten years ago, we had just finished with Big Cypress, Phish had been at an apex, had been growing steadily for 16 years and life was good.  Our trade relations with China were growing, the Japanese and Russian economies had become subservient to American and European dominance.  Likewise, we were discovering new sources of resources in South America and Africa.

Technology was fostering a new spirit in both the youth and the old alike of independence and great informational freedom.  The distribution of knowledge and the dissemenation of information was becoming increasingly free-flowing. 

We had just endured a decade of unencumbered growth, fostered by the foreign policy decisions of our state department during the Reagan administration.  Likewise, our finiancial decisions had fostered a spirit of growth by helping us to pay down our national debt.  We had helped to avoid crises in Kuwait, eastern Europe and eastern Africa.  Convenience was growing and America was living in the lap of freedom and luxury.

We had our worries, and we had problems with our two party system, but those worries were abstract and not as dangerous as they would become.

In the year 2000, there was a Presidential election.  It was quite surreal and post-modern.  Al Gore secured the Democratic parties nomination.  George Bush secured the Republican parties nomination.  Because, it is a common practice in State Department politics, Al Gore had been painted during Clinton's administration as a "harmless" and slightly "unintelligent" character.

Politics is funny like that.  He was the Vice President of our country, a heartbeat away from the presidency, and when he ran for the Presidency, I was still encumbered by the mental block that the man was somehow "unintelligent".

I remember when they painted Dan Quayle with a similar stroke.  My mother went to school with Mr. Quayle.  She had told me that the man was very intelligent, but I never really believed her.  I think what she was telling me was "don't believe what they tell you on t.v."  "don't believe things just because everyone believes them without evidence".

George Bush, on the other hand, was relatively unknown.  He was George Bush Sr.'s son.  It was rumored that he was in a secret society called "the Bonesmen" from Yale.  He seemed rather unintelligent.  He was rather comical. 

The election, from my standpoint, seemed like a toss-up.  I did not know why I should care one way or the other.  They both seemed equally dumb and harmless.

This is why you don't believe the news.  The news did not even mention "Dick Cheney".  The news never explained who Mr. Cheney was.  The news did not explain his qualifications for the vice-presidency, nor did they let me know who he was.

He was like a dark shadow looming in the corner.

Election night came, and there were some serious issues with our electoral process.  America's Democratic system was under fire from within.  It appeared to many liberals that it was possible that the republicans won unfairly.  Adding more fuel to the flames was the fact that conservatives did not do much to persuade America that they won fairly, they seemed to have an attitude that "yes, we won unfairly, you still lost, suck it up."

This was the first sign that things were seriously wrong.  This was the first point at which America as a nation failed during this decade.

It was first of all inexcusable for those involved in the election of our Nation's leaders to allow our Nation to appear weak and to appear as if Democracy is a facade.  One of the primary principles on which our Great Society has been founded is the principle of fair and equitable democracy.  The right to have a fair and equitable voice in all matters involving our Society's policies, both Foreign and Domestic and involving our Society's utilization of the Free Market Economy has been the bedrock on which our Great Nation has grown.

It is unfair for our citizens to feel robbed.  It is unfair for other Nations to believe that our citizens have been robbed.  First of all it is embarrassing.  This embarrassment manifests itself in an exposure of and exploitation of the Hypocrisy illuminated by the perpetration of the impression of this fraud.

For America to have been robbed of it's faith in the Democratic system in November of 2000 was inexcusable.  The average citizenry's reaction that it was not only excusable but that it was also un-notworthy was equally inexcusable.

This is where we first went wrong.  As a nation, both of our Political Parties, the Democrats and the Republicans should have had a pow wow and figured out how they were going to fix this grave misjustice.  The misjustice was not necessarily that "George Bush stole the election".  The misjustice was, however, that "George Bush LOOKS like he stole the election".  The fact that this myth manifested itself even before Tuesday (?) September 11, 2001 is egregious in retrospect.

It is a myth that was exploited by both the Right and the Left to our detriment after these attacks.

It is a myth that has scabbed my heart long after. 

It is a myth that caused me to lose "faith" in my country

It has left a wound on my heart that hasn't healed.

And, it is not the worst that my heart has been impacted.

I have more to say on this.  But I need to digest my thoughts on this.  I hope you have read and understood what I'm trying to convey, because I feel as though it is important.  It's definitely important to me.

[mbw]

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

 :-D  The attitude behind your post ironically is what my "lengthy" post is warning us against.   :lol:

[Superfreakie]

One of the primary principles on which our Great Society has been founded is the principle of fair and equitable democracy.  The right to have a fair and equitable voice in all matters involving our Society's policies, both Foreign and Domestic and involving our Society's utilization of the Free Market Economy has been the bedrock on which our Great Nation has grown.

You state that you erred in your comprehension of the possible ramifications of the 2000 elections because your principal source of information came from television. Well, judging by the above, I regretfully must inform you that it is still poisoning your understanding of reality.   

[fauxpaxfauxreal]

You state that you erred in your comprehension of the possible ramifications of the 2000 elections because your principal source of information came from television. Well, judging by the above, I regretfully must inform you that it is still poisoning your understanding of reality.

How so?  Could you expound on your assertion, please?

My statement was not based on television, but it is based on my understanding of American history which is based on the documents that outline my countries creation and foundation.  From the Puritans who settled New England until the revolutionaries who declared Independence from the British.

In what way do you feel that my understanding of reality is poisoned?

[DoW]

9/11.  Never forget.

[sophist]

9/11.  Never forget.

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Don't forget to tune in for 102 minutes tonight. 

[susep]

http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

the pics I took in May 1986, I was 13.