The Definitive Island Tour Discussion

[August]

eh...not really what i meant.
i meant that tapers have it tougher, because they are "on-the-fly".
obviously, with boards, you have it easier to control your end result by mixing each track.
a

[mattstick]

Once audience tapers get the levels set, there isn't much left to do for 75 minutes.  The guys mixing at the board are constantly making adjustments and have much more to deal with.  Even for material that is mixed down later, they still have everything right to tape.

There is an expression in the audio engineering world... you can polish a turd, but it's still shit.

I think the Mets loss has affected your thought processes.   :-D

[August]

dont even get me started with the Jays... :-)
obviously, i am an AUD over SBD guy.
we both have studio experience and an uderstanding of recording technology,
i always took the "soundman" as a "set it, and fhuggetaboutit" principle after the first 2 songs or so.
granted, for both cases, if your levels arent peaking during recording, you can doa bunch with it during the mix-down.
a

[mattstick]

Depends on the sound guy I suppose - but if you watch Paul he never stops fiddling.  Especially on backing vocal situations, I'm sure he's making very minor adjustments to things like reverb and level.

I think we're comparing Apples and Oranges.  Nobody is saying that Audience taping is easy, but compare it to the processes required to make recordings as nice as the Island Tour SBDs and it is easy.

[August]

the island tour is definitely the LOUDEST LP release out there.
i definitely know, and appreciate the work that goes into SBD recording, just a fan of AUD's, that's all!

(just throw a bunch of 57's and a D112 in the kick up there and you are good, right?  :wink: )
a

[westcider]

i may be wrong here, but i always thought sbds (at least the ones we end up with) were two-track feeds, thus not mixed afterwards.

i have the utmost respect for pro sound engineers, as i cannot for the life of me create a good sounding mix, either live or mixing down multitrack recordings.  i have also played way too many gigs where the soundguy the venue provided completely sucked ass, or just set the levels (incorrectly) and then walked away.  i once had to play a synth solo where i could not hear one note through the monitors because the sound guy had cranked the guitar during the solo preceding it and never turned it down, and the idiot was hitting on some fat chick as i waved to him to fix it.

i can't listen to auds anymore, but i must admit that sometimes i wish there was more crowd energy in the sbds i listen to.  but i don't like it when i can't tell what the bass is doing, or page's piano, because the microphone was hundreds of feet away from the instruments.  i guess my favorite recordings would have to be matrix.

briefly on topic:  i love the island tour, but they definitely aren't my favorite four shows ever (even 4/3).

[mattstick]

i may be wrong here, but i always thought sbds (at least the ones we end up with) were two-track feeds, thus not mixed afterwards.

Slip Stich & Pass is from the multitrack, but you're right, most of the livephish SBDs are 2-track mixes.

I hate mixing live sound, it's such a pain in the ass and nobody really appreciates how hard it is to do.  Plus you'll ruin your ears if you do it for too long and are'nt careful.

[rowjimmy]

I'd just like to chime in of behalf of the tapers and note that while what matt says is true about many of the guys in tthe section there are certain tapers with the gear and the knowhow to pull some amazing recordings. These guys of whom I speak are often folks with many many many years of experience in live taping, thousands of dollars invested in their gear and their focus on the goal of getting the best recording in the room. Sometimes even they don't hit the homerun but...

There are well executed AUDs out there that easily rival the two track sbds. The only thing the sbds have in their favor is expensive post-mastering which, nowadays, even auds can get a nice bit of from some tapers.

[gainesvillegreen]

There are well executed AUDs out there that easily rival the two track sbds. The only thing the sbds have in their favor is expensive post-mastering which, nowadays, even auds can get a nice bit of from some tapers.

Indeed.  I know this is supposed to be about the Island Run, and there will be time for all that, but thanks need to go out to folks like Marmar who do exactly the kind of thing described above.

I just want to mention one thing.  I was in the audience for many Phish shows.  I know what it sounds like to be in the audience for a Phish show.  If I'm going to listen to a Phish show, particularly an attended, for a second time,  I would like to be on stage for that second listen.  And subsequent listens.  That is what a SBD delivers.  It puts me in a spot where I was not during the actual show. 

Anyways...too many Fat Tires   :wink:   

[Gumbo72203]

about the aud thing...  ive certainly grown to appreciate a well-recorded audience tape, but only in the Phish section.  Dead auds...  efpahfpewahg.  nope.  next please.  just for whatever reason, i can rarely stand listening to Dead auds.  Phish auds on the other hand, are often amazing.  Ive got a bunch of shows where i always forget that its NOT the soundboard tapes.  A lot of this has to do, i think, with the technology of the day.  We've got better mics today, and better recording equipment, cables, etc.  Everything is better today than it was 10-15 years ago even.  So naturally you would expect that today's auds would be good.

but one thing i thought of recently while pondering auds is the source PA system.  I would think that in order to have any chance at getting a good recording, you need to be recording a great-sounding PA system in the first place.  Thats the thing with auds...  i think a lot of it has to do with the source PA system and not the taper, because the taper is just recording basically one source (not counting a stereo mix of two mics pointed at each stack, its still one PA system, granted things are panned differently through it, but...).  Therefore, its all up to the venue/soundman whether or not the audience recordings will be any good or not. 

[rowjimmy]

Clearly you need to dig a little deeper into the GD auds.
Just like with Phish, there are crap sources but, there are plenty of Dead auds that truly smoke.
As for the PA/mix thing: yes, if the PA or the mix suck the auds will too but, you can't blame that for most Dead auds. Dan Healy was a genius behind the mixingboard and in PA design. Only in a few venues did they have trouble sounding good. Shit, Healy could make the Cap Center sound good.

[sophist]

^exactly.  I cite the 78 red rock auds as somkers.  The MPP 85 aud sounds pretty damn good also.  I'll also throw out the auds from 89 fall tour as being very consistent.  They have a very good sound to them in my opinion. 

[susep]

Happy Anniv!  2April98 is probably my favorite show of the Run. 

[antelope19]

8 year bump!  I may have to revisit some of these shows this week. 

[justjezmund]

8 year bump!  I may have to revisit some of these shows this week.

may?   :shakehead:

Love these shows.  I'll never get sick of this run.  SO many high points.  Still my fav is the Birds>2001 from 4/4, so boss.