My voting dilemma

[Poster Nutbag]

Well, I was thinking more of Bush and Kerry, and now McCain and Obama when I wrote that...I agree that had Gore won, things probably would have been different than they are now...but not necessarily better, because Gore is still a Washington insider.  Special interest groups and corporations would still be controlling every move Congress makes.  

Unless we get fresh blood in our government, there is too much incentive for the Dems and the Reps to maintain their self-serving status quo.  And I'm just not convinced that Obama won't give us more of the usual BS once he gets into office.

You seem to be smearing two separate (yet similar) problems together.
If your concern is that special interests control congress... Do something about it when you vote for your congressperson or senator.
If your concern is that special interests control the white house, it's too late to think that you can keep both of the two leading candidates out of thew white house. A valid third party must start its campaign and achieve high (and favorable) visibility probably next year for any shot at 2012. Me, I've been quietly campaigning for 2012 for 8 years.

All you are doing now (by voting third party) is ensuring a McCain victory.

FACT: Republican and conservative voters turn out in (relative) droves.
The only thing that can prevent four more Republitard years is a strong turnout for Obama.

I fully agree with RowJimmy on this point... As soon as I started to read your post I was thinking it...If this is how you feel about the two candidates then the best choice you can make is to pick the lesser wrong...So the worse candidate doesn't end up in office...I'm not saying you don't have a point about telling both major parties to go F' themselves, but voting Independent is truely a wasted vote on what will be and has been in the past a mute moot point...

[jedifunk]

i think you meant moot point

[tet]

saw this last night, really glad someone captured it for YouTube because it's fucking brilliant and on-point.

JUST VOTE!!

[keeb333]

I agree 100% about term limits for Congress and the Senate.  We need to put an end to "career" politicians!  

[Mr Minor]

i think you meant moot point

:lol:

[Hicks]

Well, I was thinking more of Bush and Kerry, and now McCain and Obama when I wrote that...I agree that had Gore won, things probably would have been different than they are now...but not necessarily better, because Gore is still a Washington insider.  Special interest groups and corporations would still be controlling every move Congress makes. 

Unless we get fresh blood in our government, there is too much incentive for the Dems and the Reps to maintain their self-serving status quo.  And I'm just not convinced that Obama won't give us more of the usual BS once he gets into office.

You seem to be smearing two separate (yet similar) problems together.
If your concern is that special interests control congress... Do something about it when you vote for your congressperson or senator.
If your concern is that special interests control the white house, it's too late to think that you can keep both of the two leading candidates out of thew white house. A valid third party must start its campaign and achieve high (and favorable) visibility probably next year for any shot at 2012. Me, I've been quietly campaigning for 2012 for 8 years.

All you are doing now (by voting third party) is ensuring a McCain victory.

FACT: Republican and conservative voters turn out in (relative) droves.
The only thing that can prevent four more Republitard years is a strong turnout for Obama.

100% agreed. RJ for prez in 2012!   :-D

[keeb333]

Can I pass this time, and vote for you twice in 2012, RJ?

:-D

[gah]

"A tax rebate funded by taxing oil is just stupid as that cost will be passed down to us."

Actually, Obama was against this, and clearly stated so at the beginning of the summer when McCain and Clinton were talking about giving a tax break throughout the summer on gas prices. He argued, that the oil companies would make up the difference of the reduced gas taxes by increasing their profit margin by the same difference. The overall effect would be minimal if at all.

"Also, he is going to raise my taxes.  I already watch the government take 1/3 of my check, should they really get more?"

I think the numbers, charts, links and graphics all show that unless you are making over $600K, your taxes will NOT be raised under an Obama plan.

The way I try to look at it is like this, the government is going to spend the money on projects regardless of where the money is coming from. Whether there is a Dem or Rep in the White House, we are going to be paying for welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, social causes in general. How much of the overall that goes to that is another argument, but the bottom line is X amount of dollars is going to be spent. The only question as I see it is from whom that money is coming from; under a republican, those of us making under $250K/year carry the burden, under a democratic party, those over that amount, and those with the greater ability to do so, should carry a little more of the weight. I am open though to any ideas that say otherwise....

[rowjimmy]

Craig Ferguson is great. His appearance on Bill Maher a couple weeks ago.
He's also a new US Citizen as of earlier this year.

saw this last night, really glad someone captured it for YouTube because it's fucking brilliant and on-point.

JUST VOTE!!

It also bear noting that he doesn't use a teleprompter with his monologues. He may write it out in advance but he's without a net on camera.

[gene]

he sure likes smacking that camera
none the less great.

[Poster Nutbag]

i think you meant moot point

i think you meant moot point

:lol:

OK!! thanks for the lesson...all fixxed now...although it makes me chuckle a bit due to an old Friends episode... :lol:

[sls.stormyrider]

thanks tet - awesome vid

[cactusfan]

more economic food for thought:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/healthcare_mccain_style.html

[Guyute]

Thank you all very much for the wealth of responses.

No, I do not make over $250k a year, but I'm trying real hard to get there, real hardb.   :-D

At the same time, the tax increases which Obama is presenting on the wealthy are unfair.  On the surface it looks fine.  You make $2.75 million so I am going to increase your taxes by 11% when you already pay a higher percentage of your income than everyone else, how is that fair?  How is that just?   I do know a lot of people making over that and they do because of hard work, not because it was given to them.  Most come from humble beginnings and have got themselves to where they are.  I actually give McCain more credit here as at least it is across the board.  Also, the rich will just work harder to find more loopholes.


Really the right thing is a flat tax with no deductions.  Fair and at 15% would actually bring in more than the current system, but I digress.

It is very true that a Democratic president with a Republican congress has always created the most prosperous economic times.  Of course Congress and the Fed have much more control than the president. 

What I do like about Obama is his energy and view on social issues.  What I do need to hear more of is how he plans to solve them.

That settles it, I'm voting for Michelle Obama, she's the smartest one of the bunch.

[susep]

beyond a tax breakdown, voting for McCain would perpetuate the "War on Terror".  His running mate's comments about Russia are truly frightening.  She is in no way qualified to be in such a position of power let alone the potential ability to launch nuclear weapons, wtf?