Should I put some sort of reference to Brad's wedding in the wiki?
I mean, it was a private performance.
What say you?
List it as if it were a show but indicate that it was a private party, sitting in on the wedding band's gear, etc.
I think there should be a place for it, but it's not a ticketed event that phans could get into. That's typically been the criteria to call something a show. Maybe another section for "live appearances" like national anthems. It's hard to draw the line because what about late night TV appearances? They do "headline" as far as the music goes, but the tickets are sold for the show, not Phish (well, at least to non phans). And what about radio appearances? There's usually a live studio audience, so I'd keep those in the regular mix.
Haven't thought about this enough, but I think we should maybe have an alternate section for non-shows.
Maybe a good split would be
1. Any performance where a majority of the people at the event came for the sole purpose of Phish's appearance is considered a show. (including festivals and Santana openers)
2. Any performance where phish is not the main attraction (aside from being an opening act) is considered a musical appearance.
Not sure if you guys think we should differentiate, but if so how we'd work it in the wiki.
I see your point, jephrey, but I think that it would be easier to list the performances in the regular show listings but then, perhaps, create an additional page that lists (and links to) the performances that are not regular shows.
and how can you really draw the line based on the ticket sales? When Phish opened for Santana, the majority didn't buy tickets to see Phish. Same for Laguna Seca Daze or Fuji Rock Fest...
I agree with RJ, they should be listed in with the shows as it might be too hard to define the line between the too. I also think the idea of having a page that links to separate, specific 'non-show' shows is a good idea. That way you can directly link to radio performances, interviews, etc..
If I wanted to continue the argument, I'd say that the people who were up at the stage when phish played WERE there to see phish. But I also agree that it's going to be too difficult and my argument falls apart for national anthems unless I say that was not a music oriented event.
So I'll agree, maybe we could use categories... Maybe even categories for the regular shows, we could tack on a load of categories like show, impromptu show, tv, sporting event, late set, interview, etc.
Well I was under the impression that any performance in front of an audience was a "show" because in the 80's, there are entries of private parties and whatnot (etree, Phish Companion, Mockingbird, Almanac). Brad's wedding wasn't a public show, but I'd say it was a show nonetheless because the performance was in front of an audience. I'd also consider things like National Anthems and late night TV as shows even though the people in the audience were really there for the basketball game or Letterman or whatever.
Each individual performance has its own page in the wiki anyway. Private, TV, radio and other odd performances just don't get linked to a tour and they each get an explanation in the notes (as usual). I think if we go through and pick out all the performances that are not actual tour-related shows, then it will throw the stats off on the wiki. What we'd wind up with is people arguing what is a show and what wasn't a show when we could just explain the event in the notes, count it and move on to the next dead link.
This is a good discussion, yo.
Quote from: drvinestein on May 30, 2009, 07:47:15 PM
Well I was under the impression that any performance in front of an audience was a "show" because in the 80's, there are entries of private parties and whatnot (etree, Phish Companion, Mockingbird, Almanac). Brad's wedding wasn't a public show, but I'd say it was a show nonetheless because the performance was in front of an audience. I'd also consider things like National Anthems and late night TV as shows even though the people in the audience were really there for the basketball game or Letterman or whatever.
Each individual performance has its own page in the wiki anyway. Private, TV, radio and other odd performances just don't get linked to a tour and they each get an explanation in the notes (as usual). I think if we go through and pick out all the performances that are not actual tour-related shows, then it will throw the stats off on the wiki. What we'd wind up with is people arguing what is a show and what wasn't a show when we could just explain the event in the notes, count it and move on to the next dead link.
This is a good discussion, yo.
I think the Doctor has summed up nicely.
true. I like it.
I do like the idea of an additional page or pages that collect the TV/Radio Performances, etc...
I like that, too. Setlist page to have everything in one place and an additional page for the special stuff.
I agree. Additional page for special events and impromptu stuff.
Is there a way I can remove the "Tour" link in the upper right? It's not part of a tour and I hate dead links. I've made some other entries that would benefit from this, too. Can't just remove it altogether from the code because it messes it up and when left blank, it just leaves a dead Tour link.
?
You could link the tour link to the 'special shows' page, perhaps? or do you need a new template, altogether?
Quote from: rowjimmy on June 01, 2009, 01:44:44 PM
You could link the tour link to the 'special shows' page, perhaps? or do you need a new template, altogether?
You can only put the name of a tour in the space and then it pops up "so-and-so Tour" and links automatically to the tour page.
It's a template. I thought of this when I first put together the template. I suppose I figured special events wouldn't be part of a tour but also wouldn't be part of the overall setlists. I think we should figure a way to name these with the "tour" on the end that makes sense...
So for a national anthem, you could make it
"Live Appearance, No " and it'd come up "Live Appearance, No Tour"
The "Live Appearance, No Tour" page would list all the appearances not part of a tour. That'd be ok, dontcha think?
Cool Idea. Tough to work within this framework, but what you've proposed makes a lot of sense. That way, the 'no tour' can cross years, etc.
Right, all it is, is a link to a page and we could put anything in that page we want... I think just copying from the year page would be fine... I mean, that's how we make the tour pages.
Although I just checked and here's how the link works. It uses the text before Tour and applies the year.
So if you look at any setlist page, the upper right will say (for example) Summer Tour 1999.
Summer Tour links to the "Summer 1999" page and 1999 links to the "1999" page. We can make adjustments to that line, like even taking out the tour links (I think only some have actual pages so far. It's basically duplicate data except the stats are tour specific instead of year specific. If we change the template, we can type any text there we want, with or without a link but would have to go back and modify stuff.
Anything we do, lets just do it to the template as a proposal and we can always revert. I don't really need to go to a "Tour" page although a tour summary is nice. Maybe the tour summaries can go on the year page or something like that...
The next question is will there be a header on the year page for non-tour shit?
I really hoped more people would add information like on band members and timelines and stuff like that and I guess I wished that the data could be populated from a table so stats could automatically be generated.
Other ideas?
Ok, I edited the template. See what you think of this...
I removed the addition of "Tour" to the "TourDescription" so it'll work better with non-tour stuff. Now it basically just says Japan instead of Japan Tour. On the bright side, to the right it still says the year, so it looks like Japan 2000. If you click on Japan, it brings you to the Japan 2000 page and if you click on 2000 it brings you to that show on the year page.
Now you can enter something like "Live Appearance" and it'll link to a "Live Appearance 2000" page which can then be redirected to a "Live Appearances" page containing ALL live appearances unless we want to leave them split apart by year.
I thought of a few other options but they all included slightly changing every setlist page or getting rid of the tour pages which although we might want to modify them so they're not redundant to the year page, I still think they're nice to have.
Right now I think 2000 is the only year with tour pages set up.
OK, great. I will have plenty of time to work on this stuff this summer.
@ jephrey:
OK, the first solution you proposed - friggin awesome and a good idea.
I'm glad that you edited the "Tour" thing out, too because it's too silly for stuff like "Las Vegas Run Tour"
Great work!
:clap:
Besides, each year's General Statistics box can be edited to reflect how many shows were part of a tour, how many were special appearances/performances, etc.
QuoteThis year there were 100 shows
80 shows were from tour
20 shows were special appearances
or something like that...