Hey folks. I see we've been making some progress getting info into the wiki, like the Video and DNC lists. However, we really need to get this open to the public to get the majority of the work done. Things that must happen for that to happen are (and please let me know if I am forgetting anything):
- Clear, concise directions on how to create new pages and enter data
- Clear, concise outlines of how specific data (i.e. names of songs like 2001 vs ASZ, The Curtain vs The Curtain With) is to be entered and cataloged
- A mission statement or goal for our website (besides the "Our intent is all for your delight") - basically, why should anyone contribute? because "...."
- A list of years/tours/songs/venues that still need to be entered (perhaps the wiki can do this for us, looking for orphaned links or something)
- A standardized method for entering the raw data, such as last time played and the like - why we can't link this into a database a la XYZYYXXXYYZZ or whatever that site is called baffles me. There has got to be a better way than entering every song, every venue, every 'gap' in playing every fucking time. Perhaps we could recruit an SQL junkie to look into this for us
- A real logo for the page. Something "us"
-Yes, instructions. I started the instructions for entering setlists, but I don't know if anyone has even tried to use them to enter a setlist. We need some proof that they work...
-Naming conventions. This is an easy text page. I hope someone can step up... It's just a list of every song (real name) as a link to that song's page.
-Mission statement. Good idea. Maybe we can go outside our group for a sec. flow00 does something with writing doesn't he? Otherwise, again, I hope someone can step up.
-I personally don't think we need a list of not-entered stuff. basically, everything in red hasn't been entered (broken links) and I think entries should be self explanatory as far as what's missing.
-Hmmm, as far as entering stuff being tedious and linking to other databases, since our setlists will be static (aside from some additions and updates every now and again), I think that after the initial entry, it will be easy to maintain. A wiki should be easy considering the users are the updaters. I was hoping that trowing more of us at the project would speed things up. I think it's a bit overwhelming at first.
-I asked jonyem to make a logo and he was down. I'll get back with him to see what's up with that. I'm sure he's forgotten.
*I would add one more thing in preparing for opening this thing up. Simply, I'd like to have more content. Just because that makes more examples. Maybe more setlists for a few other tours in like 1993 or 1996 and maybe even load the framework for all the year pages. I'd just like it to be more usable before opening it up. So users can feel like they're more or less contributing instead of having to learn a bunch of stuff. Obviously that can be intimidating. I've slacked off a bit (as we all have) and that's cool as far as I'm concerned as we're in no real rush. But we all should continue to try to add a tiny bit here or there. Maybe get yourself to update one thing a day. Add one setlist/details page. Add a song page one day and enter some of the data the following day. The venue pages are fairly simple if you look at the example. And especially, any instructions or documentation you have can be done (like the song name page). In any case, I'll also be trying to use this week to get a little done.
Jephrey
i think the data entry for the individual songs, for instance, is one of the most tedious parts of this whole process. going through the hundreds of songs Phish has played, then finding lyrics, guitar tabs, EVERY TIME IT WAS PLAYED (with song before/after, set #, gap between appearances) - that is going to be something that almost no one will want to do.
entering more data as examples is a good idea, but i don't know if it's completely necessary. i think all of the "year" pages should be completed before opening up, because from there people can just click on the 'link' to the show date and create the page from there.
i also think there's an easier way to do templates than what you've been doing, which is just copy/paste. if you look at wikipedia, they have actual templates for every kind of picture box, article, etc... i'm not sure how all that works, but we seem to be doing this the hard way.
like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages
see also:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates
thanks tet! i'm wondering, though... are you in a hurry to get this up? i am and i'm not... i think it will be THE online resource for phans when its done, but there are a myriad of other resources now, so i dont know if we need to rush just to have it up and running....
i will say that we've got a nice size group of folks that if we just each did a little a day or week, we could get 90% of this done rather quickly... so we all need to get our asses in gear (myself included)...
*jeph, perhaps you could PM everyone and try to rile the troops one more time... like i said, even just once a day or twice a week from all of us and we could get this going in a hurry*
Our details pages do use a template, but I had to limit it to the top section because of the way we want to format numbered lists etc. You can see the template at the very top in the double braces. As soon as you have a list of varying sizes over different pages, the template is poo. I worked with it for a while, but it wasn't great. There's also syntax involved, and it generally includes a cut and paste anyway. I think it's easier to go the route that we're going...
Songs...
the lyrics and tabs are easy, usually at emil's wiki. I agree wholeheartedly about the every time played, and our biggest task, YEM was played about 500 times, but really if you took an hour, you could probably have most of it entered. Most of the data is available in the Pharmers so it's a bunch of copying. I suppose there's a way to do it through code, and it'd be great if someone knew that, but if not, once it's entered, it's in there and updates and modifications are easy for anyone to make. Plus, we don't really even have to add the whole thing, just get it started and when someone enters a new setlist, they go make sure that the songs from the show are all shown on their song page and counted in times played. This seems to be the biggest data-entry part of the project and the most boring, and the most tedious. Doing the few that I did were not too bad. Like any page, if you get into a groove, it's not bad. Then again, once people see an end in sight, things tend to move quickly.
I agree, the year pages are a great place to begin. and entering more dates, I also agree to an extent. Maybe a couple from each year just to have a bit of content on each year page?
To summarize:
I think we're using templates to their max potential for the details pages, and although we could use them on other pages, the copy/paste method is nearly as simple, it's just easier to mess up formatting.
Year pages and a few show details pages from each year - Yes
Songs, although tedious, unless there's a good coder around, we just bite the bullet and hope for the wiki to work properly and users to find errors and update. Initial entry, although tedious, is fairly easy.
QuoteWarning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I tried to rally the troops a couple weeks ago. It's a hard time, and totally understandable. It's hard for all of us to get time. Maybe if someone else rallied the troops, it'd work better because I have typically taken on that task and hearing it from another may be good. Maybe tet can offer karma for quality entries or something. I'm going to try to get some done this week as I had stated about a week ago!
J
See....this is where we need to take advantage of databases that are already complete......when doing the song pages (the before/after songs) and every time played, etc....this is where IHOZ comes in handy......
For me...I'm finding that it's a real PITA doing the SBD list......and that isn't really that much input on my part......it's mainly just checking the 3 databases I have (db.etree, the SBD list v13, and my personal database I've maintained over the years)......I mean if you look at what's been done so far......it's just gonna take time....AND, now that there's a workforce, maybe assign teams of 2-3 per section......that might help make things move a little faster.....it also might cause more mistakes though...I dunno....it's just gonna take effort.....
exactly, i think the whole thing right now is that we just need TO DO IT!
Its actually kinda good I have all these txfers to master.....wiki time is the time it takes for the files to process......so for every set I work on, it gives me about 20-40minutes of wiki time while I wait for the files to become available for tracking......
Slowly but surely....it's happening......
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go clean all the broken glass off the seats in my truck, and tape up all the loose wires from some dirty asshole who decided it would be cool to smash out my windows and steal my $3000 5.1 car stereo.....they even took the speakers out of the doors and dash......bastards.....
:-o holy shit are you kidding? i fucking hate shit like that!
it's the second time this has happened......I'm about to go on a killing spree......
the movie Falling Down ring a bell for anyone?
Falling Down is a great film. The best of Michael Douglas. Total BS man. Same dude you think? I'm sure you're covered, but that doesn't make it any better, you still gotta fork a deductible over and pay more because you're more of a risk to the insurance co.
BTW, didn't I leave my new macbook pro in your car and that was stolen too? :wink:
Jephrey
1. Can you search the database for SBDs? And how easy is it to update the database as the SBDs become available? You probably have to enter the source, but the wiki is more like just a list. It's awesome that you've got that time to do it...
2. I'll be entering year pages... Got 99 and 98 in, but no statistics or the blurb or any of the high-5s or anything like that. Jedi, you did a good job with 2000 (the top section). Can you do those sections for the other year pages? They're already there, just need to be changed to whatever. I decided to use my lunch hour (and any other time I get this week) to do some wiki entry... I'll be able to do a little with statistics from home when I have my Pharmers or another resource. I can also try more songs. I've done a couple but have forgotten how hard it really is to do them.
I'm DOING IT! (Spoken in Fez's voice)
J
yeah, i'll get on those... i think i'll just follow in behind you after you make the year pages and start filling in that stuff...
i'll also post in the wiki section here to get recommendations from other in the group as to what we feel are the "high 5" and whatnot
jeez Marmar, that sucks man... i remember how bummed you were the first time around, and with those matched pair of McIntosh amps... i'd install a shotgun anti-theft device in the car if i were you -- just hire Dick Cheney to sit in there, armed with a 12 gauge and some Natty Lite.
Quote from: Marmar on July 31, 2006, 12:53:43 PM
See....this is where we need to take advantage of databases that are already complete......when doing the song pages (the before/after songs) and every time played, etc....this is where IHOZ comes in handy......
but we need to be able to link to those databases, which would really help. i wonder if IHOZ would be able to do a database dump for our project and we could somehow incorporate that... there has got to be an easier way to do this!
Awesome... 1997 is in! I wonder how easy that one is going to be for you? 8-) :mrgreen:
J
lol, thats probably going to be the hardest, cuz i know the most about it! :roll:
96 is in
sweet, i'll try to get some stuff done tonight after the kid is in bed
I might be around too. I plan to master my version of The Horse. Work a little on some other music, archive some 95s that I'm working on, and do the wiki
I'll get moving on that vid page, and finish the Melt, I agree that the most tedious part, song entries will probably not get done by the public, we may end up doing most of them ourselves. Does a possibility of a linked database for time played exist, or we have only one choice?
1995 Year page is complete...
It's taking me like 15-20 minutes to do a year page and get it ready to enter stats and such. All the formatting is in there. I should be able to get all the years in over the next couple weeks. After that, we'll have to enter a couple setlists in each year just to get the ball rolling.
A couple more venues and songs and we'll be on our way.
Jephrey
great, thanks for all the time and effort! :banana:
ok. we now have a logo. it's plain, but i think gets the point across for now. i futzed with color but just didn't see anything that stuck me. i have the PSD files if anyone wants to play around. and a higher res of that black :phish: , which i must admit was "borrowed" from phish.net
let's really try to get some more info pages up on how to add stuff - right now the one page kinda just focuses on one thing.
i really don't wanna rush us, as we should do it right the first time, but my goal is for wikipaug.net to be open to the public by the end of the year. i think that's a realistic goal. almost 4 months to get things in order... plausible, no?
this can be a really great addition to the phish community, we're just gonna need to figure out a way to get the word out. once people discover how open and useful this project is, i think we'll get quite a lot of people contributing work to it. i hope, at least. :mrgreen:
Well....one person to talk to would be caravan2001......
He's got all kinds of shit from the early years.......I got a few buddies I can ask for some stuff as well....and I'll see if my brother has any of his memorabilia layin around that we can use......I know he's still got a few bouncy balls that they tossed from the rafters at the 4-20-91 gig at the U of R......he might have some other treats as well.....
That's the tough part... Opening up is easy. I'm sure we'll get a boatload of people and also a bunch of newbies at week4paug.net. However, I doubt that many will really contribute. I like that we've made a little progress lately, and hope the trend continues. I'd love to see some ideas on how to handle memorabilia. Like images of all the tour shirts on a tour page and all kinds of stuff like that. Maybe even pics of stuff on the details pages for shows that had things like bouncy balls coming from the rafters.
I think that the end of the year is realistic, but I also think that those of us here will be doing a lot of the work even after. But yeah, realistic.
J