ok, so i first admit that i havent been following the wiki progression too much this time. this is a product of a heavier workload and my desire to advance my career. but, id like to point out the simple concept of a wiki - which is the community conribution. once you guys make youre templates and such, why not let everyone contribute and then go back and fix topical errors and such? fixing things may take some legwork, but for every one that is done correctly by other people a few fixes on other entries still saves you time from entering them all perfectly yourselves. its the spirit of a wiki... why not just set up another static site like the rest of them in this case? you gain security and function if you go to a full scale journaling software... but the spirit of a wiki is what is supposed to make this site different, why not indulge it and let it materialize like a wiki is meant to?
he's got a point
he frequently does :-D
yea, that makes sense to me, BUT if we open it to the public some jackass can write whatever they please. Example -> create a fall tour 06 page and as a result we have to deal with the carnage that results. or delete all of the setlists, those damn trolls like terrorize the phish community.
I'm not against the idea, i just don't want it to back fire and create more work for us.
just my opinion.
this will be open to the public, but we'll just prevent non-registered users from deleting pages and whatnot. if this is closed to the public, might as well just make it in html and delete the wiki software... i think you're missing the point of this project, phan003...
I understand what the wiki is about, we're creating a database for everyone. Your response eliminates my concern that I expressed in my previous post. I just wanted to point out that other wiki's (wikipedia comes to mind) have had problems like that. I was just pointing out my concern, but if no one else is worried, i won't either :-) .
wikipedia, like us, has the ability to restore deleted pages should that be necessary, as well as to ban users...
so then... is the question now, when is the right time to make it available to the world? should we start with just letting those at the paug have access?
i think i'd like to get it "more ready" before we do that... enter in at least another entire year (97?)
and i'd like to shore up the tour page layout first...
also, theres something we all need to think about. and thats the passion that fans have for the music and the band. things like our "week4paug's grooves" can (and will be changed by someone with a different point of view).
also, i dont plan on wanting to be a mod or watchdog, just for the sake of keep it organized correctly.
anyhoo... food for thought
there need to be guideline pages. how to use the templates, tips for entering data, how we're naming songs (Axilla, 2001, etc...) - all the shit we've discussed here.
i don't think we need too much watchdogging, hopefully the community does that itself. i'm sure having another year up will help in terms of setting the standard for how it's done.
i have hope that the community as a whole will take up this project, so we shall see... if that experiment fails, we can close off access as we finish up the entries ourselves, but again, i think that defeats the entire purpose of making this a wiki.
The wiki should have security features to recover pages in the instance of vandals, so that really shouldnt be a concern. One day the wiki will be public, so that risk will always be there anyway. Might not hurt to figure out the best ways to deal with it early.
I think that you could have the front page be an introduction of sorts (an introduction, a mission, a few shout outs, whatever) with a link saying "here is how you can contribute" and have that contribute page have link to registration, have some links to formatting guides and etc, have links to your templates and to some of the already finished pages for examples. Pretty much anything that people would need to know before they register an account and start editing pages.
Just an idea or two. I like the idea of the wiki because of the unique opportunities for everyone to contribute content and Id like to witness how it can happen from the ground up. and think that we have a perfect opportunity to create a worthwhile site as well as perform a sort of internet social experiment given the open nature of a wiki.
Yeah, the ideas with doing all of 2000 is to get an idea of what we want the end result to look like, not to gear up for doing other years ourselves... However, I am not one for letting the floodgates open. I'd like to add more and more people on with less required... Phan and groovy got in and are now contributors, the next few can be more of high-end users. I'd like to keep adding people as we get going and exponentially, this thing will grow... So, my personal vision is this..
1. Before adding any more people, we figure out a few things.
How exactly the top of the year page should look (I like it now, but I think another section for stats might be good)
How a song page should look
How a venue page should look
If we're happy with the setlists portion
If we're happy with the details page
Then we go on to other possibilities (maybe we don't need an answer right now)
Will there be a page for Page Jon Trey and Mike? Other phish related folks.
Will there be a page for resources explaining week4paug, bt, furthur, and linking other phish sites
Will there be side-projest pages? will they have setlists etc.
2. After we figure those things out, we need at least one example (or a related group) for example.
We have nearly all of 2000 done.
We have the 2000 page.
We may put the setlists page as the top page so there's easy access to everything so we will have that started with 2000 in it (we're still debating that page and it's benefits and how detailed it should be at the top, and we need to figure that out)
We'll need a song page (and I suggest making the song page for every song in a "random" (I vote 10-07) show, just so we know how an entire show will work with its shows.
We should make a venue page for the venue of the show we choose
We should upload more stubs... I know aug has a bunch.
3. After we have a "standard" for the main types of pages, we need to make short, but descriptive instructions on how to edit and add pages. Also, we need to find out what the security measures of the wiki are, maybe if we can have an approval process for editing it would be cool.
4. We get our first group of people that would use and possibly contribute to the wiki and see how it goes. Maybe a small group that we can closely watch. They don't get access to this forum or anything, we just allow them logons to the wiki and say ok, go. This would be a great trial of how things would turn out.
5. Iron out kinks.
6. Add a larger group.
7. Iron out kinks
8. Maybe repeat a few times until we have a large base of people registered and using the site (maybe we sitll make the most contributions, but there will be help).
To recap... Figure out what we want and how we want each to look.
Actually make a few of those pages so we all get to work with them
Make instructions
Add people and iron out the kinks
Open the doors.
I think having more framework is OK before more people get here. It's ok if this wiki is even complete to some extent before many people get here. Other users will more or less be adding to the discussion page or fixing errors over doing major editing. (Not to say they won't), but this will just start looking like an older wiki with much of the information already there.
How many things have any of you added to wikipedia??? Probably nothing... It's already there in most cases, and it really doesn't matter who entered it, it could have been the same 5 people for all we know (figuratively speaking). So really, our only job on wikipedia is to sniff out BS and change stuff that's crappy. Not really make entries (although we can)... So I think our wiki can be like wikipedia in that respect, to some extent.
So, I'm kinda reiterating some of what you guys have said already, and hopefully adding some ideas of my own.
I'm cool with it being 97, but I'd prefer to just move chronologically. Furthermore, although beneficial and good, I think other pages are more important to button down over hitting another year. We gotta get some stubs in too.
anyway.
J
where did the wiki go? says it doesnt exsist in location...
we're experimenting with the DNS a bit, sorry.
you can still access it by going to: www.week4paug.net/mediawiki
Should be working now @ http://wiki.week4paug.net
We set it up as more than a simple redirect so that it doesnt simply forward to week4paug.net/mediawiki/.... but now will be wiki.week4paug.net/.....
Might seem trivial, but its truely better like this. Thanks for your patience, let me know if anything else fishy comes up.
everything seems fine... thanks for all the behind the scenes work
navigation links on left side dont work
Im looking for a way to fix that, but it may have to wait until after work tonight.
i'll try to fix that now, i think it's a simple configuration setting but if i'm wrong we'll have to wait for guyforget to help...
hmm, no go... i think i see what the problem is but it's not too easy to fix. more on this later...
no rush fellas :-)