week4paug.net

Out of sick curiosity, I have to ask...who will it be for you?  Biden's a doof, and Palin is scary...IMO.  Obama is eloquent and McCain is OLD.  Shit's gonna get hot come November. If it's none of my beeswax, lemme know.  I can take it.   :evil:

Hey we're all friends here...  sort of.  ;)  I have no qualms saying that I am still undecided.  But in light of recent events I can say that Obama is looking better each day.  Dear God we are seriously fucked if McCain wins. I fear for our future if we have to spend the next 4-8 years under a Republican regime.  This country needs someone to light a serious fire under our proverbial ass.  :-D

(http://obeygiant.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/obama.jpg)

I agree with Rich, actually.  I am pretty "middle of the road" when it comes to the majority of issues.  I will say that the more and more I hear from Mrs. Palin, the less and less I like her.  I am still very curious to see how the debates play out, but ATM, I am leaning towards Mr. Obama.     

no doubt here.
Obama.

I have no doubt either that Obama is my choice. And I said this on another board, if there is more you need to research to decide, please do so, but don't give up, say you're not going to vote, or get frustrated with both sides. It is a pain, but its our one opportunity (unless you're involved in local politics) to actually be involved and active in the political process. But you have to search through the muck to get to the truth.

My point being, its easy to fuel the fire of forwarded emails and ridiculous photos, but underneath it their are policies and ideas that actually matter.  We shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the truth based on smoke and mirrors, nor should you be so blind to quickly accept the rhetoric thrown your way by people that claim to feel the same as you or understand your viewpoints. You might just be surprised at what you find when you go looking for the truth.

A good place to start www.factcheck.org

Obama. 
Unless some miraculous event occurs in which McCain/Palin come up with real solutions to many of hte problems.  But then again, are miracles by the devil considered a miracle??  :-P

(http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/BushMcCainArms.jpg)

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 23, 2008, 10:33:46 AM
I have no doubt either that Obama is my choice. And I said this on another board, if there is more you need to research to decide, please do so, but don't give up, say you're not going to vote, or get frustrated with both sides. It is a pain, but its our one opportunity (unless you're involved in local politics) to actually be involved and active in the political process. But you have to search through the muck to get to the truth.

My point being, its easy to fuel the fire of forwarded emails and ridiculous photos, but underneath it their are policies and ideas that actually matter.  We shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the truth based on smoke and mirrors, nor should you be so blind to quickly accept the rhetoric thrown your way by people that claim to feel the same as you or understand your viewpoints. You might just be surprised at what you find when you go looking for the truth.

A good place to start www.factcheck.org

excellent point that is unfortunately getting lost in all the BS.

Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

Personally I think they're all religious wackos... so I'm picking the one who will do the least harm until I can personally supplant him in the 2012 election.

Religions never made sense to me either as it relates to being a Republican. I got into an argument with a friend the other day who is very religious and adamant supporter of the Republicans, and when I asked why, the only thing they could base their support off of was the abortion issue.  Can the abortion issue be all that pulls conservative Christians to that party? Don't any of the other issues matter to them? Like the greater social well being of your brothers and sisters? Creating harmony with other countries? Not creating wars for profit? I may not be asking this right, but I just don't understand how faith gets mixed in with politics sometimes and how then the right is more religious with all the greed that seems to be associated with it.

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 23, 2008, 12:59:02 PM
Personally I think they're all religious wackos... so I'm picking the one who will do the least harm until I can personally supplant him in the 2012 election.

Just as long as I can be in charge of campaign signage...   :-D


(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/dead_ahead/campaignsign.gif)

Quote from: Rich on September 23, 2008, 01:32:15 PM

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 23, 2008, 12:59:02 PM
Personally I think they're all religious wackos... so I'm picking the one who will do the least harm until I can personally supplant him in the 2012 election.

Just as long as I can be in charge of campaign signage...   :-D


(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/dead_ahead/campaignsign.gif)

Capitalize the 'R' and let's try it without the serifs, mmkay?

Critics...   :roll:



:wink:

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 23, 2008, 01:26:50 PM
Can the abortion issue be all that pulls conservative Christians to that party? Don't any of the other issues matter to them? Like the greater social well being of your brothers and sisters? Creating harmony with other countries? Not creating wars for profit? I may not be asking this right, but I just don't understand how faith gets mixed in with politics sometimes and how then the right is more religious with all the greed that seems to be associated with it.

yes.  The Christian Nationalist movement has made it the hot button topic to evoke power via the religious right.  Ironically, said Christians only care about life inside the womb.  Ever notice how many Christians are for the death penalty, or unmoved by civilian death via war?  Failure to think the policy of "pro-life" through and failure to implement the policy so that all life is valued.  It is the same illogical argument for Gay rights. 
Homosexuality -> Bestiality (sp?) -> incest -> 6 butted human hermaphrodites

Fear is the tool, not the actual word of God. 

I won't open that can of worms anymore, but I think you get my point. 

Quote from: Sophist on September 23, 2008, 02:06:02 PM

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 23, 2008, 01:26:50 PM
Can the abortion issue be all that pulls conservative Christians to that party? Don't any of the other issues matter to them? Like the greater social well being of your brothers and sisters? Creating harmony with other countries? Not creating wars for profit? I may not be asking this right, but I just don't understand how faith gets mixed in with politics sometimes and how then the right is more religious with all the greed that seems to be associated with it.

yes.  The Christian Nationalist movement has made it the hot button topic to evoke power via the religious right.  Ironically, said Christians only care about life inside the womb.  Ever notice how many Christians are for the death penalty, or unmoved by civilian death via war?  Failure to think the policy of "pro-life" through and failure to implement the policy so that all life is valued.  It is the same illogical argument for Gay rights. 
Homosexuality -> Bestiality (sp?) -> incest -> 6 butted human hermaphrodites

Fear is the tool, not the actual word of God. 

I won't open that can of worms anymore, but I think you get my point. 

You would think it hard enough for someone to be a hermaphrodite, but in addition have 6 butts??  Damn.  Sucks for them.  :|

Quote from: Mr Minor on September 23, 2008, 02:07:45 PM

Quote from: Sophist on September 23, 2008, 02:06:02 PM

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 23, 2008, 01:26:50 PM
Can the abortion issue be all that pulls conservative Christians to that party? Don't any of the other issues matter to them? Like the greater social well being of your brothers and sisters? Creating harmony with other countries? Not creating wars for profit? I may not be asking this right, but I just don't understand how faith gets mixed in with politics sometimes and how then the right is more religious with all the greed that seems to be associated with it.

yes.  The Christian Nationalist movement has made it the hot button topic to evoke power via the religious right.  Ironically, said Christians only care about life inside the womb.  Ever notice how many Christians are for the death penalty, or unmoved by civilian death via war?  Failure to think the policy of "pro-life" through and failure to implement the policy so that all life is valued.  It is the same illogical argument for Gay rights. 
Homosexuality -> Bestiality (sp?) -> incest -> 6 butted human hermaphrodites

Fear is the tool, not the actual word of God. 

I won't open that can of worms anymore, but I think you get my point. 

You would think it hard enough for someone to be a hermaphrodite, but in addition have 6 butts??  Damn.  Sucks for them.  :|

ha ha ha ha....lmao!  :clap:

I've heard the argument before (not to that extreme, but I've still heard it from the mouth of another human being).  It is pretty scary to me that people are thinking that way. 

All very good points. It's very scary...
So glad no one checked McCain yet. I didn't fear him much until he sold his soul/beliefs, flopped on abortion and brought in this Palin person. He gave up any integrity he had to try and win by teaming up with the conservative Christians that enabled Bush to win. It's so transparent, I can't believe the whole country can't see it.

Quote from: slslbs on September 23, 2008, 11:37:40 AM


Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

I'm trying to stay out of political threads, but I just wanted to comment on how much I respect this opinion.

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I am personally annoyed and frustrated with the party divide.  times are tough but I still I am proud to live in the country I live in and I want the best over the next 4 years.  I definitely have more confidence in one candidate over the other but I'm the other candidate gets in, he will have my full support for at least the next 4 years.

Quote from: bvaz on September 23, 2008, 06:41:52 PM

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I can't necessarily hang with this.
If a person is elected by a narrow margin and I disagree with their POV and policies, it is my duty as an American to express dissent in words and action.

Whomever wins will win by a narrow margin.

And I don't expect any republicans to just roll over if Obama wins it. They'll fight him every step of the way.

You can say party politics is bad for the country but, the fact is, this nation is deeply divided on a number of major issues. The parties themselves try so hard to straddle that divide wherever they feel they can get away with it because they have to draw from both side to win...But they also are very clearly opposed on many major points.

yes, but sometimes I wonder...
do they wake up and say I'm going to go what's good for the country, or for my party.
do they choose issues because they think it's the right thing, or is it against the other party (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), or cause it is politically expedient.

imo there is plenty of middle ground on many issues. Tip O'neil used to drink with the Reagan boys. They disagreed, but were amiable and respected each other. I think that is gone, for the most part.

Supporting the president, or "respecting the office" is exactly how Bush has gotten away with so much these last eight years.

Quote"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- President Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

I'm an Obama fan - though I don't look down on anyone who isn't, there are many good reasons not to vote for the guy (which for obvious reasons I will avoid discussing) - but I think his positive traits out-do the bad. Plus anyone who can reunite The Dead and get them to perform with the Allman Brothers has to be good, right?

If you wanna help me raise money for Barack, here's your spot:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/CHRISTOPHERROBBINS

If you are broke like me and just wanna help Barack, go to http://www.barackobama.com and get yourself set up. Great networking tools and opportunities to volunteer.

Whoever you support, just voting and making your opinion heard is a good thing in my opinion.

unf undecided.. i feel that this year is JUST like ANY other fucking election.. there both not right for the job..

Quote from: lexslamman on September 24, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
I'm an Obama fan - though I don't look down on anyone who isn't, there are many good reasons not to vote for the guy (which for obvious reasons I will avoid discussing) - but I think his positive traits out-do the bad. Plus anyone who can reunite The Dead and get them to perform with the Allman Brothers has to be good, right?

If you wanna help me raise money for Barack, here's your spot:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/CHRISTOPHERROBBINS

If you are broke like me and just wanna help Barack, go to http://www.barackobama.com and get yourself set up. Great networking tools and opportunities to volunteer.

Whoever you support, just voting and making your opinion heard is a good thing in my opinion.

hey - nice work turning a Fark thread into a Harpua sing-along... that was awesome... :beers:

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 23, 2008, 12:59:02 PM
Personally I think they're all religious wackos...

sad but true. as george bush the elder said when asked if an atheist could be an american, and i'm paraphrasing here, "no."

i'm voting for Obama. voting for mccain means pre-emptive war with iran, for starters. not too keen on that myself. as for the rest of mccain's policies, hoo boy. couldn't be worse. and palin? good god, what a nightmare of a human being. and since her announcement as candidate for second highest office in the country: not a single press conference. she's too fragile to be asked any real questions. and have you read about her special debate rules?

and on and on...

I want to reply to so many of these comments, but I won't.
arghh.  why did I come in this thread to begin with?
I'm going to go listen to some Phish.

Quote from: tet on September 24, 2008, 01:10:19 AM

Quote"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- President Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

:clap:
:beers:

Quote from: bvaz on September 23, 2008, 06:41:52 PM

Quote from: slslbs on September 23, 2008, 11:37:40 AM


Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

I'm trying to stay out of political threads, but I just wanted to comment on how much I respect this opinion.

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I am personally annoyed and frustrated with the party divide.  times are tough but I still I am proud to live in the country I live in and I want the best over the next 4 years.  I definitely have more confidence in one candidate over the other but I'm the other candidate gets in, he will have my full support for at least the next 4 years.

I think you SHOULD get involved. Otherwise this just becomes a one sided discussion. Most of us on here are open and willing to hear the other side of the story. Personally, I go out there and am actually looking for some positives from your side. I don't see very many, but I am certainly open to hearing it. Like I said in another thread, I don't think you will convince me to change my mind or I will change yours, but it's those folks that are undecided or independents that we need to work to convince. Give them (and me) reasons....

Secondly, that attitude that we should just support whoever becomes President is something I don't agree with. Without any opposition, we wouldn't be a democracy. The point of having more than one party is to open up debate. In any case, I understand your hesitance on participating in this conversation, but I sure wish you would, cause I, as well as others, I am sure, are looking for a healthy, open debate.

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 24, 2008, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: bvaz on September 23, 2008, 06:41:52 PM

Quote from: slslbs on September 23, 2008, 11:37:40 AM


Personally, I have no problem with someone who really believes McCains policies are better for the country. well, maybe I have a problem but I can respect it. Disagree, yes.
I have a major problem with people who take the rhetoric being thrown at us (from both sides), etc. I would elaborate but it's already been discussed.

I'm trying to stay out of political threads, but I just wanted to comment on how much I respect this opinion.

I will also say this, I hope as a country that whichever candidate gets in, we all just try and support that person to get done what they want to get done.

I am personally annoyed and frustrated with the party divide.  times are tough but I still I am proud to live in the country I live in and I want the best over the next 4 years.  I definitely have more confidence in one candidate over the other but I'm the other candidate gets in, he will have my full support for at least the next 4 years.

I think you SHOULD get involved. Otherwise this just becomes a one sided discussion. Most of us on here are open and willing to hear the other side of the story. Personally, I go out there and am actually looking for some positives from your side. I don't see very many, but I am certainly open to hearing it. Like I said in another thread, I don't think you will convince me to change my mind or I will change yours, but it's those folks that are undecided or independents that we need to work to convince. Give them (and me) reasons....

Secondly, that attitude that we should just support whoever becomes President is something I don't agree with. Without any opposition, we wouldn't be a democracy. The point of having more than one party is to open up debate. In any case, I understand your hesitance on participating in this conversation, but I sure wish you would, cause I, as well as others, I am sure, are looking for a healthy, open debate.

the difference between "most" and all has lead to some unfortunate discussions lately.

not to mention, discussing these issues on the internet is difficult.
for example, my main point was to hope that whichever candidate gets in, I hope their policies work.  If I favor McCain's economic policy over Obama's and Obama gets in, I sure as hell hope Obama's policy works and I will support it until it fails.

it's a very difficult topic to discuss over the internet when there are differing opinions.

Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one's policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

more mccain scumbaggery... this guy knows no bounds...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/219235.php

i assume people read tpm regularly? one of the best political blogs, one with a staff that does original reporting, led by josh marshall, who's exceptionally smart and obsessed with the nitty gritty of politics.

Quote from: bvaz on September 24, 2008, 02:13:56 PM
Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one’s policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

I see what you are saying, however your analogy fails when you consider that one could just leave the company and work for another.

This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

What if the company is flailing, about to go out of business and one of the options is the CFO's handpicked successor?

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 24, 2008, 02:33:58 PM
This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

Why do the people in charge always have to fuck things up for the rest of us?

It seems that, no matter which party is in power, they just keep screwing us while they're getting richer.

Quote from: Hicks on September 24, 2008, 02:38:29 PM
What if the company is flailing, about to go out of business and one of the options is the CFO's handpicked successor?

you rely on the board of trustees and/or shareholders (in other words congress) to keep it intact.

I can go on and on about hwo this country was meant to be run with branches of government and checks and balances.

the supreme court is problem and will continue under this corrent system.
but how many people actually vote for different parties on congress and the president?  we as irresponsible americans withour votes contribute.  and no, it is not just republicans that are irresponsible.

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 24, 2008, 02:33:58 PM

Quote from: bvaz on September 24, 2008, 02:13:56 PM
Let me try and use an analogy.  You work for a company and the CFO leaves and the company creates a search committee to find a new one.  You support one woman for the job and they hire a different woman for the job.  You favored one's policies over the other and all you could do as a member of that committee was to sue your vote to pick the best candidate for the job.
When that process is over, you are still an employee of the company and that CFO is a factor in the success of the company.  Wanting that person to fail because that is not who you originally supported does not do you or the company any good.  That candidate you wanted is not going to come up again until there is another search for the CFO.
If the CFO makes bad decisions and is hurting the company, by all means voice your opinion.  I sure as hell was not stating otherwise.  That is why I hate discussing stuff like this on a message board because 3 lines are not interpretted for what it was meant.
My point is that come next january, all, or at least most, of us will be employees of this company.  Regardless of whether our choice gets in, the success of the chosen candidate will be a factor in the success of the company.  I was in no way saying that candidate was always going to be right and we need to sit as puppets and agree.  At least I never MEANT to say that.  But the fact is that candidate has a lot of power and once they are put there, we all need to hope the company succeeds.

I see what you are saying, however your analogy fails when you consider that one could just leave the company and work for another.

This is the only homeland I'll ever have and it angers me to see it abused.

I think both parties abuse the people.
I also don't see either candidate as being a great answer.  What I do see is people caring more about this election and being more involved.  Although this is all due for unfortunate reasons, I hope people will pay attention more not only to the president, but also their congressmen and local officials.  It's going to take a long time to get out of this rut we are in and in my opinion, it goes past who we put in the white house.

Neither is perfect but I choose the ones who are closest to me on the issues that matter most.

At this point in time, the democratic candidates tend to be far closer to my ideology than the republicans on a wide range of (to me) important issues.

Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

I would never criticize a person for whom they voted.  everyone has an opinion.
my views are closer to the right.  but I live in one of the msot liberal states and work int he not for profit area.

what is ironic is I never heard so many people state they are voting republican who typically vote democrat.  however, obama will be getting a lot of votes that eh typically wouldn't get.

I honestly have no idea who will win.  right now, the economy is the most important issue to a lot of people and I'm not sure what people will do when it comes time to vote.  people want change but they are scared that a lack of experience may be worse.  I can honestly see either candidate winning the election.

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM
Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 24, 2008, 03:37:18 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM
Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

No, I forgot the smiley there so you would know the last one was not serious!  :-D :-D :-D

I know what you're saying, and pretty much agree.  I just have yet to decide which one of these pricks I'm going to vote for!

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:48:14 PM

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 24, 2008, 03:37:18 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM
Which candidate is going to bring the troops home from Iraq the fastest?

Who will keep my taxes from being increased?

and

Who is going to legalize cannabis?



Those are the three issues most important to me, and so far I'm not impressed with our choices.  I voted Libertarian in the last two elections, but I am really disappointed by Bob Barr.  At this point, I feel like writing in "Mickey Mouse" because the last 8 years have felt like such a giant cartoon, it would be apropos.

You don't seriously cast you vote based on that do you?
That would fall, for me, in the category of issues that I put aside in favor of more pressing matters (like the first two that you listed.)

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

No, I forgot the smiley there so you would know the last one was not serious!  :-D :-D :-D

I know what you're saying, and pretty much agree.  I just have yet to decide which one of these pricks I'm going to vote for!

That's a relief.

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM

Who is going to legalize cannabis?

May I offer a better solution to that?  None of the current candidates is going to legalize cannabis.  Especially not McCain.  Encouraging your local politicians to take notice of the importance of legalized medicinal cannabis to people who really need it would be a much better approach.  Once they see people bringing issues to them with some real merit they'll take note.  Don't go to them and tell them you want it legalized for recreational use.  They'll probably ignore you.

Americans For Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/)
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.mpp.org/)

anyone have any idea how i can stream the president's addy tonite?  i wanna see what this cheesedick has to say.

Not sure, but I am very curious to how he will find his way through a very complex topic. Over/under on how many words he screws up: 13. I'm taking the over.

In terms voting, I am not sure I know any democrats that are questioning Obama at all, other than the older white demographic, and that has validity based on polls, so I am curious as into these dems you know bvaz that are voting against party lines for the first time. Have they told you why? Is it his "inexperience"? Because I don't see that as a vaild reason.

Yes it will be close, but I can tell you now, it is very difficult for a party to win 3 elections in a row, especially when the economy is doing bad, people tend to look for change, and go for the other party. I agree it will be close, a lot closer than it deserves to be, but as recent polls have shown, thats primarily based on race issues.

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 24, 2008, 08:48:31 PM
Not sure, but I am very curious to how he will find his way through a very complex topic. Over/under on how many words he screws up: 13. I'm taking the over.

In terms voting, I am not sure I know any democrats that are questioning Obama at all, other than the older white demographic, and that has validity based on polls, so I am curious as into these dems you know bvaz that are voting against party lines for the first time. Have they told you why? Is it his "inexperience"? Because I don't see that as a vaild reason.

Yes it will be close, but I can tell you now, it is very difficult for a party to win 3 elections in a row, especially when the economy is doing bad, people tend to look for change, and go for the other party. I agree it will be close, a lot closer than it deserves to be, but as recent polls have shown, thats primarily based on race issues.

the age range varies on people crossing party lines to vote.
it's funny that you say "you" don't think that is a valid reason.  ok.  that is fine for YOUR vote, but I think others can use their vote as they please.
I think the inexperience reason is just as bad as the reason that they won't vote for mccain becuase they think he is too old, which is an issue for some voters.  lots of people have lots of reasons to vote one way or the other.  for ME, I think some reasons are better than others.

HOWEVER, as I said above or a previous page anyway, I would never criticize anyone for their vote.  I have concerns with each candidate.  obama's inexperience is a concern to me.  however, I know this DOES NOT mean that he cannot do a good job, but it does lead me to question whether he WILL do a good job or not.

I guess my approach is to take my vote seriously and make an informed decision on my vote and try not to worry about why other people vote the way they do.  I can't control them.

And I agree, people can vote for whatever reason they want. Whether it be foreign policy, economy, leadership, abortion, experience....I could care less. My statement was asking if those people had given you reasons, and if inexperience was one of them because I, personally, in my vote, don't consider that an issue, because there are FAR more positives, including his recommended policies, that I personally DO agree with. I was just curious what others reasons were for not voting for him or crossing party lines and I understand that experience, or lack thereof, may be one of those issues.

Quote from: bvaz on September 25, 2008, 03:30:54 PM

Quote from: goodabouthood on September 24, 2008, 08:48:31 PM
Not sure, but I am very curious to how he will find his way through a very complex topic. Over/under on how many words he screws up: 13. I'm taking the over.

In terms voting, I am not sure I know any democrats that are questioning Obama at all, other than the older white demographic, and that has validity based on polls, so I am curious as into these dems you know bvaz that are voting against party lines for the first time. Have they told you why? Is it his "inexperience"? Because I don't see that as a vaild reason.

Yes it will be close, but I can tell you now, it is very difficult for a party to win 3 elections in a row, especially when the economy is doing bad, people tend to look for change, and go for the other party. I agree it will be close, a lot closer than it deserves to be, but as recent polls have shown, thats primarily based on race issues.

the age range varies on people crossing party lines to vote.
it's funny that you say "you" don't think that is a valid reason.  ok.  that is fine for YOUR vote, but I think others can use their vote as they please.
I think the inexperience reason is just as bad as the reason that they won't vote for mccain becuase they think he is too old, which is an issue for some voters.  lots of people have lots of reasons to vote one way or the other.  for ME, I think some reasons are better than others.

HOWEVER, as I said above or a previous page anyway, I would never criticize anyone for their vote.  I have concerns with each candidate.  obama's inexperience is a concern to me.  however, I know this DOES NOT mean that he cannot do a good job, but it does lead me to question whether he WILL do a good job or not.

I guess my approach is to take my vote seriously and make an informed decision on my vote and try not to worry about why other people vote the way they do.  I can't control them.

I get what you're saying about experience.

Consider that the only 3 pres since 1950 who had seen the inside of the WH before they were pres were LBJ, Nixon, and GHW Bush.Were they the best Presidents since 1950? Being governor, senator, mayor isn't the same as being in the hot seat. Cheney and Rumsfeld were pretty experienced before they got their most recent govt jobs. What did their experience get them -  or us?

For me, the thought processes, philosophy, and outlook matter a lot more than the length of the resume. Experience counts too, but it's just one thing. How much experience? doing what?

ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Wants to abolish the Department of Education which is the body that administers the national student loan program that allows [insert huge yet accurate number that I'm not gonna look up here] to go to college.

Need I say more?

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 25, 2008, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Wants to abolish the Department of Education which is the body that administers the national student loan program that allows [insert huge yet accurate number that I'm not gonna look up here] to go to college.

Need I say more?

no, i proved my point

Quote from: Declan on September 26, 2008, 12:14:48 AM

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 25, 2008, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Wants to abolish the Department of Education which is the body that administers the national student loan program that allows [insert huge yet accurate number that I'm not gonna look up here] to go to college.

Need I say more?

no, i proved my point

Guess I missed it.
What was your point?

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 24, 2008, 03:37:18 PM

If I voted that way, I'd be frustrated too because, for me, having an atheist in office (to protect the separation of church and state) is a higher priority that legalization. But I put that aside and vote for the religious nut who won't tell my daughters what they can and can't do with their bodies.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote from: Rich on September 24, 2008, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM

Who is going to legalize cannabis?

May I offer a better solution to that?  None of the current candidates is going to legalize cannabis.  Especially not McCain.  Encouraging your local politicians to take notice of the importance of legalized medicinal cannabis to people who really need it would be a much better approach.  Once they see people bringing issues to them with some real merit they'll take note.  Don't go to them and tell them you want it legalized for recreational use.  They'll probably ignore you.

Americans For Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/)
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.mpp.org/)

Not to side track the thread here, but we do we have to construct these phony arguments for old people?  That is what the medical argument is for, sympathy from senior citizens because they actually vote in droves.  This "rationalization" of good versus bad medicine drives me insane.  Why does an entity have any right to control me or dictate what is best for me?  It doesn't.  I should have the choice to do anything to my body at anytime and we need to accept the notion that general panacea concepts are bullshit. 

I digress..........

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Theological libertarianism is lame.   Look it up, he's part of the paleo-libertarian movement.   

Quote from: Sophist on September 26, 2008, 10:23:38 AM

Quote from: Rich on September 24, 2008, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM

Who is going to legalize cannabis?

May I offer a better solution to that?  None of the current candidates is going to legalize cannabis.  Especially not McCain.  Encouraging your local politicians to take notice of the importance of legalized medicinal cannabis to people who really need it would be a much better approach.  Once they see people bringing issues to them with some real merit they'll take note.  Don't go to them and tell them you want it legalized for recreational use.  They'll probably ignore you.

Americans For Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/)
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.mpp.org/)

Not to side track the thread here, but we do we have to construct these phony arguments for old people?  That is what the medical argument is for, sympathy from senior citizens because they actually vote in droves.  This "rationalization" of good versus bad medicine drives me insane.  Why does an entity have any right to control me or dictate what is best for me?  It doesn't.  I should have the choice to do anything to my body at anytime and we need to accept the notion that general panacea concepts are bullshit. 

I digress..........

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Theological libertarianism is lame.   Look it up, he's part of the paleo-libertarian movement.   

The Preamble of the Constitution mentions the "pursuit of happiness"
What if my pursuit of happiness includes smoking weed? 

Quote from: Mr Minor on September 26, 2008, 11:40:08 AM

Quote from: Sophist on September 26, 2008, 10:23:38 AM

Quote from: Rich on September 24, 2008, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM

Who is going to legalize cannabis?

May I offer a better solution to that?  None of the current candidates is going to legalize cannabis.  Especially not McCain.  Encouraging your local politicians to take notice of the importance of legalized medicinal cannabis to people who really need it would be a much better approach.  Once they see people bringing issues to them with some real merit they'll take note.  Don't go to them and tell them you want it legalized for recreational use.  They'll probably ignore you.

Americans For Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/)
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.mpp.org/)

Not to side track the thread here, but we do we have to construct these phony arguments for old people?  That is what the medical argument is for, sympathy from senior citizens because they actually vote in droves.  This "rationalization" of good versus bad medicine drives me insane.  Why does an entity have any right to control me or dictate what is best for me?  It doesn't.  I should have the choice to do anything to my body at anytime and we need to accept the notion that general panacea concepts are bullshit. 

I digress..........

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Theological libertarianism is lame.   Look it up, he's part of the paleo-libertarian movement.   

The Preamble of the Constitution mentions the "pursuit of happiness"
What if my pursuit of happiness includes smoking weed? 

I think you guys are on the same side here...

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 26, 2008, 11:44:59 AM

Quote from: Mr Minor on September 26, 2008, 11:40:08 AM

Quote from: Sophist on September 26, 2008, 10:23:38 AM

Quote from: Rich on September 24, 2008, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: keeb333 on September 24, 2008, 03:22:12 PM

Who is going to legalize cannabis?

May I offer a better solution to that?  None of the current candidates is going to legalize cannabis.  Especially not McCain.  Encouraging your local politicians to take notice of the importance of legalized medicinal cannabis to people who really need it would be a much better approach.  Once they see people bringing issues to them with some real merit they'll take note.  Don't go to them and tell them you want it legalized for recreational use.  They'll probably ignore you.

Americans For Safe Access (http://www.safeaccessnow.org/)
Marijuana Policy Project (http://www.mpp.org/)

Not to side track the thread here, but we do we have to construct these phony arguments for old people?  That is what the medical argument is for, sympathy from senior citizens because they actually vote in droves.  This "rationalization" of good versus bad medicine drives me insane.  Why does an entity have any right to control me or dictate what is best for me?  It doesn't.  I should have the choice to do anything to my body at anytime and we need to accept the notion that general panacea concepts are bullshit. 

I digress..........

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Theological libertarianism is lame.   Look it up, he's part of the paleo-libertarian movement.   

The Preamble of the Constitution mentions the "pursuit of happiness"
What if my pursuit of happiness includes smoking weed? 

I think you guys are on the same side here...

Yeah, I was agreeing and supporting him.  Sorry if it was unclear.

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 26, 2008, 08:14:12 AM

Quote from: Declan on September 26, 2008, 12:14:48 AM

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 25, 2008, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Declan on September 25, 2008, 11:33:34 PM
ron paul... do i haveto say it again?

Wants to abolish the Department of Education which is the body that administers the national student loan program that allows [insert huge yet accurate number that I'm not gonna look up here] to go to college.

Need I say more?

no, i proved my point

Guess I missed it.
What was your point?

how much does it cost for a university in canada, how much in the us?

As a Ron Paul fan, it would be a mistake for you to compare the US with Canadia...

They are far more Socialist.

your talking about student loan organizations...

doesnt require a department of education

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 26, 2008, 05:28:04 PM

They are far more Socialist.

I would be careful with that one

Quote from: Declan on September 26, 2008, 05:56:50 PM

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 26, 2008, 05:28:04 PM

They are far more Socialist.

I would be careful with that one

Why is that?  Socialist democracy works very well for many European nations. 

yeah... it does, not what i meant though

I just can't understand how anyone can have any faith in the republican party for this election...To me it just seems obvious that the republican party for the last 8 years have done everything for big buisness to the point of absolute recklessness bringing about nearly a great depression and running up the deficit tab to over a trillion dollars...McCain still supports this war, Palin is pro-life to a fault, not to mention grossly unexperienced... McCain supports lowering taxes for the some of the same greedy ass rich people that take advantage of this country's free enterprise in unjustly ways which brought about this failure, even though the deficit is a trillion dollars...

I can respect a vote for an Independent party...BUT I HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO RESPECT FOR ANYONE VOTING REPUBLICAN FOR THIS ELECTION!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Declan on September 26, 2008, 06:35:04 PM
yeah... it does, not what i meant though

Perhaps, if you wrote a tiny bit more you could actually convey a point.

Quote from: rowjimmy on September 26, 2008, 08:30:03 PM

Quote from: Declan on September 26, 2008, 06:35:04 PM
yeah... it does, not what i meant though

Perhaps, if you wrote a tiny bit more you could actually convey a point.

Agreed man, I'm not really following what you're trying to get at. Maybe I'm just not as good at connecting the dots.

Quote from: bvaz on September 24, 2008, 03:25:44 PM
what is ironic is I never heard so many people state they are voting republican who typically vote democrat.

self'd.