so, after going to a lot of local smallish shows lately which either didnt have tapers or don't allow them, i got to looking into handheld recorders that i could slip into my shirt pocket and tape a show. i really want to record the junip shows in april.
i don't think i want to get involved with taping rigs and what not, but who knows...
anyway, would i be able to pull a decent recording in a club with something like one of these...
Tascam DR-05 or 07
http://tascam.com/product/dr-05/
Zoom H2 or H4n
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/
mattstick, i know you work for Tascam so any input would be appreciated...
Tascam is better than Zoom.
I own a DR-07.
If you had it near the PA, and set your levels nicely, and had the mics rather unobstructed you could get a nice recording.
if it was sticking out of a shirt pocket, or placed on a table or rail or something like that in a small club, would it be worth it?
I realized I didn't answer your question, so I edited.
From personal experience, on a table, in a jazz club, you can get a nice recording.
Quote from: mattstick on March 06, 2011, 09:03:53 PM
I realized I didn't answer your question, so I edited.
From personal experience, on a table, in a jazz club, you can get a nice recording.
sweet. i think i will give it a shot. and i could always plug in other mics if i decide to get serious.
i'll trust you on the tascam over the zoom, though i sure you are a little biased. :wink:
i like the pricetag on the DR-05...
there's a few different makes of those recorders with built in mics....I think there's even a few that have different/changeable capsules to suit your recording needs....
I think GAH had a zoom that he used for a while. We used it also to record some jam sessions. We were relatively pleased with the recordings, but no matter what you get as matt said, set your levels. We just plugged it in and went. Some times drums were weak or bass was too loud, etc.
I know that isn't much help, but that's all I got.
What kind of mini tripod is there for the 05?
lil pricey but....
http://www.zzounds.com/item--SNYPCMD50
and stand
http://www.zzounds.com/item--SNYVCTPCM1
Tascam:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASAKDR1
keeping a recorder in a shirt pocket will only work if you stay farily still, at leats that is the reviews on the zoom.
another option is the church audio mics for stealthing that can be had for fairly reasonable prices and can just be velcroed to your shirt or hat or whatever.
another suggestion I'd have is finding a used one on ebay or in the yard sale on taperssection.com.
I've even heard of someone raising a zoom on a mic stand and recording with the internal mics and pulling a decent recording of a further show (although I haven't listened to it to verify.
Quote from: bvaz on March 07, 2011, 09:09:06 AM
keeping a recorder in a shirt pocket will only work if you stay farily still, at leats that is the reviews on the zoom.
another option is the church audio mics for stealthing that can be had for fairly reasonable prices and can just be velcroed to your shirt or hat or whatever.
i'm actually lookin into his mics right now. $100 or so, have listened to a bunch of samples, good stuff.
clip on your shirt collar.
i think i am gonna do this.
I have had a guy attach his zoom recorder to my stand to tape a show with the built-in mics.. .never heard the result. seems like a pita.
I'd buy the tascam if I were in the market now.
Then I'd look into some church-audio mics for high quality, low-key, recording.
I haven't been keeping up with the new hand-helds, but my advice is this:
after a few years of trying out different things (mics, pres, recorders, battery packs, etc.), I finally decided it was a huge waste of money and that I should have saved up and done it right the first time around.
I think your best bet is to find a unit that does everything that you would potentially want it to do in the future. Getting a recorder with a set of good internal mics, but with a crappy 1/8" input, will do you know good next year if you want to add Church Mics.
I would spend the money on a nice Sony or Tascam unit. You will be much happier with your results, in the long run.
Do some reading at TS. You aren't the first in this boat, and there will be others that have posted their personal experiences...
Terry
Edit to add: I did some quick reading on Tascams and Sonys... It looks like most are moving towards the Sony units on TS... THis is what I found: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/productComparisonChart.do?URL=/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/&models=PCMD50,PCMM10/B
IMO, the PCM-M10 is what you want... Although if you want to potentially add an external DAC, you'll want the D50.
Terry
yeah, I had a Zoom H4 for awhile, it worked out of for taping band practices and shows, but I didn't use it in big club/bar settings to tape other bands so can't advise you on that. I'd probably go with a nicer tascam as others have suggested if you plan on getting into it more seriously. I will say this though, hand held's are really easy to use, and as long as you're adjusting the levels right, you'll enjoy it...
Hand-Held comp: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143526.0;topicseen
Terry
thanks for the input everyone. good stuff.
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 07, 2011, 10:11:27 AM
I think your best bet is to find a unit that does everything that you would potentially want it to do in the future. Getting a recorder with a set of good internal mics, but with a crappy 1/8" input, will do you know good next year if you want to add Church Mics.
the CA-11's, which is what i was looking at, have 1/8" outputs though, so what is the difference?
i know next to nothing about this stuff so all the advice is greatly appreciated, i enjoy book learnin.
I think the main thing you want to avoid is adapters....
as long as you can match your gear's connections up without using adapters you should be ok....adapters suck the life out of signals.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 08, 2011, 02:31:56 AM
thanks for the input everyone. good stuff.
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 07, 2011, 10:11:27 AM
I think your best bet is to find a unit that does everything that you would potentially want it to do in the future. Getting a recorder with a set of good internal mics, but with a crappy 1/8" input, will do you know good next year if you want to add Church Mics.
the CA-11's, which is what i was looking at, have 1/8" outputs though, so what is the difference?
i know next to nothing about this stuff so all the advice is greatly appreciated, i enjoy book learnin.
I'll write out a primer later while I'm on break...
Terry
As overwhelming as it might seem, taperssection.com is an amazing wealth of information and worth signing up and reading.
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 08, 2011, 07:54:00 AM
I'll write out a primer later while I'm on break...
Terry
I would start reading about various hand-held units here (many reviews, comparisons, etc): http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=11.0
For you, specifically, you are looking to (at first) use the internal mics. At some point in the future, you will more than likely be adding a preamp/battery box and mics. There are many to choose from, but most on TS seem to be picking the Tascams and Sonys...
First decision: You may want to see if you can find comparisons of the internal mics... Actually, here's one: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143526.0 That way you can get a taste of the various units and how they sound...
Second decision: you need to decide if you will need a digital input on your recorder, or if analog is good enough. Most hand-held are ONLY analog (only have an analog input) usually via 1/8" TRS (tip ring shaft). This will be called "Mic-In" or "Line-In". The only two that I can think of that have digital inputs are the Microtracker and the Sony D50. The advantage of having a recorder with a digital input is that you can pick and choose what kind of ADC (Analog>Digital Convertor) you want to use (Grace, Mytek, Apogee, etc...). Analog input relies on the internal ADC of the recorder, which may or may not be as "good". However, analog inputs are much cheaper than digital, the M10 is $200 less than the D50... Personally, I think you are OK going with the analog input. The new ADCs in these units are just fine...
Here's a post about ADCs: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=142469.0
As far a general overview of what you will need to tape, I cut this from TS: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=33610.0
Quote
Newbie Central
So you're a brand-spanking newbie to the world of taping, eh? Want to make your own ambient recordings, aka concert recordings or audience recordings (or maybe like a few people here you prefer soundboard recordings). Where to start?!? You're in the right place - newbie central. Give this section a quick look, take a longer study if needed, and then as you formulate queries in your own mind, take the next step...the Taping FAQ. (see next section: FAQ | Taping related)
In order to create a digital audience recording, we require the following:
[1] Mics
[2] Mic Power
[3] Gain
[4] Analog-to-Digital Converters (ADC)
[5] Storage Devices
There's some additional miscellanous stuff we'll need - like cables, adapters, mic stand, etc. - but we'll skip that stuff for now. So...a bit more on each of the above 5 components required to create a digital audience recording...
[1] Mics
We all basically know we need mics, right? This is a huge topic in and of itself which we won't get into right now. For now, let's just say: we all understand we need mics to create an audience recording.
[2] Mic Power
All condensor mics (the kind of microphones we use for our recording) require some kind of power to operate. Most condensor mics operate using phantom power. Phantom power is just a way of saying the mics are powered by an external power source. Just about all the common condensor mics you see tapers using operate with phantom power. The alternatives are internal power or battery box power. Some mics work with either phantom or internal power, two common examples: AKG C1000S and Nak CM100/300 series. But mics that run on battery box power do not run on phantom, and vice versa.
[3] Gain
So we have our mics. And we have power to our mics. But the signal coming from those mics is usually very weak/soft/quiet. We typically need to apply gain. Gain simply strengthens the signal so it's strong enough to feed into an analog-to-digital converter. If the signal isn't strong enough, the quality of our recordings suffer. Now that we have a strong enough signal, on to the ADC...
[4] Analog-to-Digital Converters (ADC)
The ADC translates into the digital domain (0s and 1s) the analog signal coming from our powered microphones and through our gain stage. Once the signal has been translated from analog to digital, then all we have to do is store those 0s and 1s somewhere.
[5] Storage Devices
So where do we store all those 0s and 1s that are translated from analog by the ADC? Most common these days is a DAT recorder. Other common options include laptops, mini-disc, and hard driver recorders (a la Nomad JB3). Pretty simple right?
Do we really need 5 different components to perform these 5 different functions? Sounds expensive! Well, not really. There are plenty of options for relatively inexpensive gear that perform one or more functions [1-5] above. For example:
AKG C1000S > Sony D8
In this example, our microphones (AKG C1000S) [1] are powered by an internal battery [2]. Likewise, the Sony D8 provides multiple functions: gain [3], ADC [4], and storage [5]. Two pieces of gear (remember, we're skipping the cabling and such for now)...that's it!
Then Why do so many people schlep around so much gear if it's possible to create an audience recording using just a pair of internally powered mics and a portable DAT recorder?
Usually, when manufacturers create devices that perform more than one or two functions [1-5] they have to skimp on quality to keep costs down. Take the Sony D8 portable DAT recorder: in order to keep the costs down on the D8, Sony skimped on the quality of the preamp [3] and ADC [4]. As a result, many people use an external gain stage [3] and ADC [4]. How many pieces of gear you use to provide the necessary functions [1-5] is up to your preferences and budget.
You want this: http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/specifications/
Terry
taperssection is more addicting than week4paug.
Quote from: bvaz on March 08, 2011, 11:28:26 AM
taperssection is more addicting than week4paug.
It's also far more likely to result in my spending money.
thanks again for all the info, recommendations and time.
not looking to break the bank too much here, but i keep convincing myself to shoot a little higher so who knows.
i have an account over there now, but am a little intimidated to post.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143071.0
QuoteThey got a bundle of different recorders, and none of them are too great for concert recording IME (DR-680 being the exception).
They keep coming out with recorders and I keep looking into them them wondering if they have a good, small, 2ch option. The DR-5 takes a max ext/line input of -4dbV, which is consistent with most of their products it seems (can't remember, maybe outside the DR6880 some models take something like a max of +2dbu ??).
My Sony D50 can take a +24dbu signal, and I think the M10 is similar. At -4dbV max input, the DR-5 is only suitable for going mic-in when doing concert recordings (and maybe not even then). Pretty much no way you could put a preamp in front of it.
Too bad, I wish Tascam would expand their line of recorders that can take a hot signal, which is pretty much only the DR680 I think.
found this in a thread about the dr-05. i dont understand what he is saying all that much, but it he says you cant have a preamp attached to it? so a recording with this device would be better without an external amp?
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 08, 2011, 10:36:32 PM
thanks again for all the info, recommendations and time.
not looking to break the bank too much here, but i keep convincing myself to shoot a little higher so who knows.
i have an account over there now, but am a little intimidated to post.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143071.0
QuoteThey got a bundle of different recorders, and none of them are too great for concert recording IME (DR-680 being the exception).
They keep coming out with recorders and I keep looking into them them wondering if they have a good, small, 2ch option. The DR-5 takes a max ext/line input of -4dbV, which is consistent with most of their products it seems (can't remember, maybe outside the DR6880 some models take something like a max of +2dbu ??).
My Sony D50 can take a +24dbu signal, and I think the M10 is similar. At -4dbV max input, the DR-5 is only suitable for going mic-in when doing concert recordings (and maybe not even then). Pretty much no way you could put a preamp in front of it.
Too bad, I wish Tascam would expand their line of recorders that can take a hot signal, which is pretty much only the DR680 I think.
found this in a thread about the dr-05. i dont understand what he is saying all that much, but it he says you cant have a preamp attached to it? so a recording with this device would be better without an external amp?
Yeah... the input on the dr5 is not suitable for what we want to do... Its more for Journalists and shit... The dr2d has +6dbv input max... I'm not sure what all that exactly means either though...
As far as your other question, would it sound better, "location" is most important... You could perhaps get a battery box suited to your needs and get a better tape, or not... I would tend to think that you would with some sort of out-board mic/power system...
Terry
edit to add: I keep flip-flopping... now I think you should get the Sony M-10...
The DR-07 and DR-05 are definitely not just for reporters, they're designed to withstand heavy SPLs.
If people look at the overall market, most people don't want to put a pre-amp in front of their recorder, so for Tascam to build pro circuitry into consumer units makes no sense. If you're running a pre-amp you probably want the features of a pro recorder, and you're probably using it for a job not a hobby. That's how the engineers look at things.
Bottom line - if you want to run mics into a pre-amp before the Tascam, you're buying something like the DR-680 or the DR-100.
At this point you don't even know if you enjoy taping. Buy the DR-05 and take it to a couple of club shows, if you decide to get more serious about taping, you'll eventually require a more serious recorder, but your DR-05 will still be useful.
I was going to suggest that he can buy the 680 and then sell it to me if he doesn't like it. :-D
Quote from: mattstick on March 09, 2011, 07:45:01 AM
The DR-07 and DR-05 are definitely not just for reporters, they're designed to withstand heavy SPLs.
If people look at the overall market, most people don't want to put a pre-amp in front of their recorder, so for Tascam to build pro circuitry into consumer units makes no sense. If you're running a pre-amp you probably want the features of a pro recorder, and you're probably using it for a job not a hobby. That's how the engineers look at things.
Bottom line - if you want to run mics into a pre-amp before the Tascam, you're buying something like the DR-680 or the DR-100.
At this point you don't even know if you enjoy taping. Buy the DR-05 and take it to a couple of club shows, if you decide to get more serious about taping, you'll eventually require a more serious recorder, but your DR-05 will still be useful.
That's a good perspective, and you're probably right.
Good advise above... Though I'm not sure I'd invest in a DR-05, there are several newer models of Tascams out there. Keep reading...
Terry
DR-05 was released in 2011.
/me trusts mattstick to know what he's talking about when he talks Tascam.
That said...
mbw, hang in the yardsale thread and you might score a deal on a gently used recorder. That's a great way to get into the act.
Quote from: mattstick on March 09, 2011, 08:17:49 AM
DR-05 was released in 2011.
I guess I mean higher numbering, like the 07, etc...
T
The DR-07 is a few years old now, but it's a nice unit.
I'd stay away from the DR-08, its more of a consumer field recorder and frankly, tough to navigate.
Quote from: mattstick on March 09, 2011, 08:17:49 AM
DR-05
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143192.msg1845743#msg1845743
If you get the DR-05 from SoundPros, you can get a discount...
Though I'm wary of the line/mic input. The DR-07 has separate inputs, and the DR-2d has better "better' performance via line-in...
Here's a test thread I foundon the DR-07. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=142139.msg1833857#msg1833857
Also, it looks like people are using Grace V2s with the DR-07, which is good news if you decide to add a preamp later. And at pretty much the same-price point, I think this might be a better option than the DR-05???
Like I said, read some more...
Terry
Quote from: mattstick on March 09, 2011, 07:45:01 AM
The DR-07 and DR-05 are definitely not just for reporters, they're designed to withstand heavy SPLs.
If people look at the overall market, most people don't want to put a pre-amp in front of their recorder, so for Tascam to build pro circuitry into consumer units makes no sense. If you're running a pre-amp you probably want the features of a pro recorder, and you're probably using it for a job not a hobby. That's how the engineers look at things.
Bottom line - if you want to run mics into a pre-amp before the Tascam, you're buying something like the DR-680 or the DR-100.
At this point you don't even know if you enjoy taping. Buy the DR-05 and take it to a couple of club shows, if you decide to get more serious about taping, you'll eventually require a more serious recorder, but your DR-05 will still be useful.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 09, 2011, 08:57:50 AM
/me trusts mattstick to know what he's talking about when he talks Tascam.
That said...
mbw, hang in the yardsale thread and you might score a deal on a gently used recorder. That's a great way to get into the act.
thanks guys. i most certainly trust mattstick when it comes to audio and tascam.
and i trust twatts as well, but matt has a great point about me being a complete newbie and not even knowing if i am going to enjoy it.
to the chagrin of twatts, i am gonna go ahead and pick up the DR-05 and a set of CA-11's and go very minimalist stealth. i will probably hit a couple of free local shows to test it out to get a sense of what i am dealing with before the junip show.
like it was said, if i want to get more serious about this i always can.
can't wait to try this out and get my feet wet.
everybody's time and input here is and has been greatly appreciated,and still is...
Good call on pulling test runs before the shows that matter.
Practice wiring up in a bathroom stall.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:03:44 PM
to the chagrin of twatts, i am gonna go ahead and pick up the DR-05 and a set of CA-11's and go very minimalist stealth. i will probably hit a couple of free local shows to test it out to get a sense of what i am dealing with before the junip show.
Not to my chagrin. I don't care what you do, personally... You wanted advise, and I gave you mine. If you think the DR-05 is most suited to your needs, get that...
Here is a thread about the CA-11 paired with a Tascam DR-07: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=134498.msg1757404#msg1757404
Are you getting a battery box with your CA-11s??? Or are you getting a moded unit to run straight off the mic-in power???
Terry
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 09, 2011, 03:29:51 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:03:44 PM
to the chagrin of twatts, i am gonna go ahead and pick up the DR-05 and a set of CA-11's and go very minimalist stealth. i will probably hit a couple of free local shows to test it out to get a sense of what i am dealing with before the junip show.
Not to my chagrin. I don't care what you do, personally... You wanted advise, and I gave you mine. If you think the DR-05 is most suited to your needs, get that...
Here is a thread about the CA-11 paired with a Tascam DR-07: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=134498.msg1757404#msg1757404
Are you getting a battery box with your CA-11s??? Or are you getting a moded unit to run straight off the mic-in power???
Terry
and your advice has been valued. moded unit? it was my impression that they will run off the dr-05?
that being said, i also read that it would be better with power from a battery box, so yes, i intended to get the church battery box.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 09, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Good call on pulling test runs before the shows that matter.
Practice wiring up in a bathroom stall.
Yes, very good advise... Try taping a wide variety of bands (different sound levels) and from various positions. If you speak loud enough, your mics can pick up your voice, so you can tell yourself "standing DFC, 10feet back". Then as you move or change settings, you can make note of it vocally. That way when you get home, you can listen and tell which parts sound the best and how you were set-up when you got that sound. Tape different bands that do different things, so you can learn the best place to be by ear so you can just walk in and hit record the next time... And if you mess something up, who cares?!? Its just some stupid local band and you're only practicing for the important shows...
I have a stack of 10 or so "crap" shows I taped before I got comfortable taping... Some good (on-stage for jazz fusion band) and some suck ass (matrix of bluegrass where my mics were way too far back and you can hear the delay)...
Terry
and never forget the most important advice.
have fun with it. seriously.
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 09, 2011, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 09, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Good call on pulling test runs before the shows that matter.
Practice wiring up in a bathroom stall.
Yes, very good advise... Try taping a wide variety of bands (different sound levels) and from various positions. If you speak loud enough, your mics can pick up your voice, so you can tell yourself "standing DFC, 10feet back". Then as you move or change settings, you can make note of it vocally. That way when you get home, you can listen and tell which parts sound the best and how you were set-up when you got that sound. Tape different bands that do different things, so you can learn the best place to be by ear so you can just walk in and hit record the next time... And if you mess something up, who cares?!? Its just some stupid local band and you're only practicing for the important shows...
I have a stack of 10 or so "crap" shows I taped before I got comfortable taping... Some good (on-stage for jazz fusion band) and some suck ass (matrix of bluegrass where my mics were way too far back and you can hear the delay)...
Terry
cool. yup, i was planning on doing just that. trying different things while vocally telling myself what i was doing...
eta:
Quote from: bvaz on March 09, 2011, 03:36:01 PM
and never forget the most important advice.
have fun with it. seriously.
yes! already am!
eta:
i fully expect my junip recording to be mint. :-D
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:33:21 PM
moded unit? it was my impression that they will run of the dr-05?
that being said, i also read that it would be better with power from a battery box, so yes, i intended to get the church battery box.
I'm not sure if the DR-05 will power the CA-11s... That's a question for Chris Church... You should also ask him if and when the battery box will overload the inputs on the DR-05...
Terry
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 09, 2011, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:33:21 PM
moded unit? it was my impression that they will run of the dr-05?
that being said, i also read that it would be better with power from a battery box, so yes, i intended to get the church battery box.
I'm not sure if the DR-05 will power the CA-11s... That's a question for Chris Church... You should also ask him if and when the battery box will overload the inputs on the DR-05...
Terry
great, thanks. i have emailed him through ebay a couple of questions, waiting for a response.
i will add those questions....
battery box?
you guys actually turn your recorders on?
I inyl use it to keep people away from me at shows and pretend like I am recording.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:41:01 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 09, 2011, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:33:21 PM
moded unit? it was my impression that they will run of the dr-05?
that being said, i also read that it would be better with power from a battery box, so yes, i intended to get the church battery box.
I'm not sure if the DR-05 will power the CA-11s... That's a question for Chris Church... You should also ask him if and when the battery box will overload the inputs on the DR-05...
Terry
great, thanks. i have emailed him through ebay a couple of questions, waiting for a response.
i will add those questions....
you can also PM him through TS if that doesn't work or post in the team church thread on the team boards in TS.
obviously, give him a chance to respond to your first message though.
Quote from: bvaz on March 09, 2011, 03:42:24 PM
post in the team church thread on the team boards in TS.
obviously, give him a chance to respond to your first message though.
Team Church is a good idea... You're probably not the first customer Chris has had with your questions... Someone else may know the answer you need...
Terry
cool. will do. still wading through all the info on TS.
this guy uses his mics straight to an Edirol R-09HR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZN8ppW8FMY (horrible music, pretty good recording)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beza_tIZExc (arcade fire/sprawl II)
i assume it cant be that different into the tascam? if i could pull something close to this off i would be more than happy for now....
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:50:52 PM
cool. will do. still wading through all the info on TS.
this guy uses his mics straight to an Edirol R-09HR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZN8ppW8FMY (horrible music, pretty good recording)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beza_tIZExc (arcade fire/sprawl II)
i assume it cant be that different into the tascam? if i could pull something close to this off i would be more than happy for now....
Why would you assume that??? Does the R09HR have the same specs as the DR-05???
Terry
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 09, 2011, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 09, 2011, 03:50:52 PM
cool. will do. still wading through all the info on TS.
this guy uses his mics straight to an Edirol R-09HR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZN8ppW8FMY (horrible music, pretty good recording)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beza_tIZExc (arcade fire/sprawl II)
i assume it cant be that different into the tascam? if i could pull something close to this off i would be more than happy for now....
Why would you assume that??? Does the R09HR have the same specs as the DR-05???
Terry
it appears so, i guess? they both record 24/96 through 1/8" mic inputs.
i really dont understand shit like this:
QuoteNominal Input Level Variable
Mic input: -33 dBu (Default input level)
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)
Input Impedance Mic input: 30 k ohms
Line input: 15 k ohms
Output Level
20 mW (In case 16 ohms load)
again, i am not an audio pro but rather a complete n00b.
tascams site says i can get professional sounding recordings through this unit with my own mics attached, so thats all i really have to go from.
it doesnt say this unit is for recording news sound bytes....
eta: what it does say is: "Premium sound quality, thats simple to use" = me
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 08, 2011, 11:40:48 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 08, 2011, 10:36:32 PM
thanks again for all the info, recommendations and time.
not looking to break the bank too much here, but i keep convincing myself to shoot a little higher so who knows.
i have an account over there now, but am a little intimidated to post.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143071.0
QuoteThey got a bundle of different recorders, and none of them are too great for concert recording IME (DR-680 being the exception).
They keep coming out with recorders and I keep looking into them them wondering if they have a good, small, 2ch option. The DR-5 takes a max ext/line input of -4dbV, which is consistent with most of their products it seems (can't remember, maybe outside the DR6880 some models take something like a max of +2dbu ??).
My Sony D50 can take a +24dbu signal, and I think the M10 is similar. At -4dbV max input, the DR-5 is only suitable for going mic-in when doing concert recordings (and maybe not even then). Pretty much no way you could put a preamp in front of it.
Too bad, I wish Tascam would expand their line of recorders that can take a hot signal, which is pretty much only the DR680 I think.
found this in a thread about the dr-05. i dont understand what he is saying all that much, but it he says you cant have a preamp attached to it? so a recording with this device would be better without an external amp?
Yeah... the input on the dr5 is not suitable for what we want to do... Its more for Journalists and shit... The dr2d has +6dbv input max... I'm not sure what all that exactly means either though...
As far as your other question, would it sound better, "location" is most important... You could perhaps get a battery box suited to your needs and get a better tape, or not... I would tend to think that you would with some sort of out-board mic/power system...
Terry
edit to add: I keep flip-flopping... now I think you should get the Sony M-10...
Having no experience in analog inputs, I should defer to other people... But this did make me think about how analog inputs work...
I posted a thread on TS, if anyone is interested. I'm curious, for myself, since I want to buy a hand-held for :evil: one day...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143629.msg1850599#msg1850599
Terry
It's like this....
If my memory serves me, at -4dbV, a signal that hits -4dbV will produce a signal of 0dbfs on the recording.....this means it is a very HOT signal....a small amount of voltage will produce 0dbfs (that's decibels full scale...ie_ hitting the red)
if something takes +24dbV to hit 0dbfs, then obviously it has a greater amount of headroom....therefor, with that amount of headroom it would allow you to place a pre-amp in the chain to get the most of your mics.....
It's kinda like car stereo amps/mixers/etc.....they have RCA and Line Level inputs.....mixers have your balanced and unbalanced inputs (high Z and Low Z)....with a guitar its like having passive pickups and active pickups....
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
nice. congrats.
Right on mbw.
Welcome to the club.
Quote from: bvaz on March 11, 2011, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
nice. congrats.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 11, 2011, 07:43:34 PM
Right on mbw.
Welcome to the club.
completely psyched.
FTW
http://ithaca.craigslist.org/msg/2229245666.html
1 Sound Devices 702, two batteries, carrying case, instruction book
2 AKG c1000s, carrying case
1 Shure S15A 14' telescope mic stand, carrying case
4 & 8 gig CF card
2 20' XLR cables
stereo mount bar for the two mics
asking $2200 for all.
I'd take my cheap chinese mics over c1000s (and did) but it's not those you're paying for with that package, I guess.
The 702 is a nice piece of gear as it completely forgoes the hdd found in the 722/744. Also, the stock pres in Sound Devices gear sound great. None better than the monoblock MP-1's though. transformer coupled on the in and output.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
Nice!!!
Terry
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 11, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
Nice!!!
Terry
Thanks again for all your research Terry! Looking forward to blowing your minds with my pristine recordings. 8-)
Terry
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 11, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
Nice!!!
Terry
Thanks again for all your research Terry! Looking forward to blowing your minds with my pristine recordings. 8-)
Terry
Here's another thread you might be interested in... http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=142801.msg1851461;topicseen#msg1851461
methinks the PR10 has the same input dBVs as the DR05??? Anyways, that MAudio attenuator looks pretty neat, but I'd look for a Deck that can take a hotter input instead of using attentuation...
Terry
you can always use a matching transformer too....they are cheap and do the job nicely
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 11, 2011, 11:30:18 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 11, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
to pre-amp or not preamp with the DR-05....?
ready to pull the trigger.....
:crazy:
just bought a Church-Audio STC-9000 stereo cardioid microphone system.
CA-11's and a 9000 pre-amp. :-o
now, about that recorder....
Nice!!!
Terry
Thanks again for all your research Terry! Looking forward to blowing your minds with my pristine recordings. 8-)
Terry
[/quote ]
Lol
nice quote fail, lol.
i bet i make a nice recording before you brew a drinkable beer.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 13, 2011, 09:22:20 PM
nice quote fail, lol.
i bet i make a nice recording before you brew a drinkable beer.
I'm putting my money on mbdub....
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 13, 2011, 09:22:20 PM
nice quote fail, lol.
i bet i make a nice recording before you brew a drinkable beer.
I LOL'd when I read this last night and it was loud enough to disturb my wife who was working in the next room.
:-D
so i asked chris church a bunch of questions about recorders to match his gear.
his reply was simply, 'Used edirol r09hr post an ad here you will find one in the yardsale section.'
expensive buggers though. i also like the tascam 2d that twatts posted as well.
there is a local band here im into thats lets you patch into the board, and the ability to record matrix on the fly is cool.
my heart still tells me to go DR-05, i cant shake it for now.
ive been pulling my hair out (yeah, thats my excuse) for days now....
The r09 is a solid little piece of gear.
If you post an iso on TS, hit me with the link.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 14, 2011, 08:51:58 PM
The r09 is a solid little piece of gear.
If you post an iso on TS, hit me with the link.
will do.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 14, 2011, 08:51:58 PM
The r09 is a solid little piece of gear.
If you post an iso on TS, hit me with the link.
I thought I read the r09 had input problems - it went bad after time with strain??? I guess that's a problem with all of those recorders though...
People seem to have very good luck with the r09 tho...
Terry
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 14, 2011, 10:26:59 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 14, 2011, 08:51:58 PM
The r09 is a solid little piece of gear.
If you post an iso on TS, hit me with the link.
I thought I read the r09 had input problems - it went bad after time with strain??? I guess that's a problem with all of those recorders though...
People seem to have very good luck with the r09 tho...
Terry
I seem to recall that using a RA plug helped...
http://tascam.com/product/dr-07mk2/
:frustrated:
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 15, 2011, 07:05:28 PM
http://tascam.com/product/dr-07mk2/
:frustrated:
Seems like you can get the 7 for the same price as the 5 at B&H....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html
Quote from: G. Augusto on March 15, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 15, 2011, 07:05:28 PM
http://tascam.com/product/dr-07mk2/
:frustrated:
Seems like you can get the 7 for the same price as the 5 at B&H....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html
sweet, thanks.
just frustrated that this is a new dr-07 released today.
i really just gotta pull the trigger on one of em.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 15, 2011, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: G. Augusto on March 15, 2011, 07:40:34 PM
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 15, 2011, 07:05:28 PM
http://tascam.com/product/dr-07mk2/
:frustrated:
Seems like you can get the 7 for the same price as the 5 at B&H....
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html
sweet, thanks.
just frustrated that this is a new dr-07 released today.
i really just gotta pull the trigger on one of em.
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143797.0;topicseen
on-topic
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
Quote from: bvaz on March 16, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
The Yard Sale makes me want to be a gazillionaire...
Terry
Quote from: bvaz on March 16, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
what the hell happened to you over there?
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 18, 2011, 09:34:02 AM
Quote from: bvaz on March 16, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
what the hell happened to you over there?
I decided I like living irresponsibly.
Quote from: bvaz on March 18, 2011, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 18, 2011, 09:34:02 AM
Quote from: bvaz on March 16, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
what the hell happened to you over there?
I decided I like living irresponsibly.
I did some poking around as you obviously weren't going to volunteer the details.
Nice pickups.
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 18, 2011, 03:47:31 PM
Quote from: bvaz on March 18, 2011, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 18, 2011, 09:34:02 AM
Quote from: bvaz on March 16, 2011, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 15, 2011, 10:18:10 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 15, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Just like anything else, the path to obsolescence is through purchase.
There will always be new, hot shit coming out.
Watch the yard sale... you might benefit from someone else's urge to upgrade.
QFT... As soon as you buy something, there will be something else that's better... That's just the way it is... Keep an eye on YS, and if you have no luck anytime soon, pull the trigger on a new recorder...
Terry
and then never go back to the yard sale. it's bad news. I won't even log back onto TS for a year now.
what the hell happened to you over there?
I decided I like living irresponsibly.
I did some poking around as you obviously weren't going to volunteer the details.
Nice pickups.
lurker.
yeah, I had the play by play in the shnfam hub.
got the r44 today. going to test it at the radiators show tonight. since it can't be shared anyway, it will be a good test.
I will be content for a long time now (i hope). :-D
Lurker? I dunno about that.
I've been active on that site since 2003...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143873.0;topicseen
Sounds good, but watch out for Bean... He had some issues a few years back. But methinks he has cleaned up and and may be all good...
Terry
Quote from: rowjimmy on March 18, 2011, 07:13:43 PM
Lurker? I dunno about that.
I've been active on that site since 2003...
I was just giving you shit. my sarcasm font is on backorder.
Quote from: twatts likes ghoti on March 19, 2011, 03:05:30 AM
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143873.0;topicseen
Sounds good, but watch out for Bean... He had some issues a few years back. But methinks he has cleaned up and and may be all good...
Terry
as soon as I read the first post, my exact thoughts were why did you buy it then?
i have to hold off for now, as i just blew through so much cash in a week its redic.
even though i'm not a fan of sony products, i think i am gonna pickup an m10 in a few weeks when the funds are replenished...
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on March 19, 2011, 10:39:16 AM
i have to hold off for now, as i just blew through so much cash in a week its redic.
even though i'm not a fan of sony products, i think i am gonna pickup an m10 in a few weeks when the funds are replenished...
Good call.
I think you'll be very happy with that.
Bean's gotten his shit together from what I've seen. It's been a while since he's had issues in the YS and he's a fairly active gearslut.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Players-Recorders/ci/2877/N/4294246776
DR-07 - $80
check this recording with church mics, pre-amp and the DR-05.
granted, it on stage, but it sounds fantastic.
http://www.archive.org/details/bk402011-03-17
Sounds nice.
Chris makes quality mics.
Just ordered the DR-07.
Gonna use it for practices and shit.
Quote from: G. Augusto on March 21, 2011, 04:39:40 PM
Just ordered the DR-07.
Gonna use it for practices and shit.
BOOM!
Quote from: G. Augusto on March 21, 2011, 04:39:40 PM
Just ordered the DR-07.
Gonna use it for practices and shit.
Awesome, I can't wait to hear those tapes of you using the bathroom...
Terry