Set 1 (7:42-9:08): AC/DC Bag, Moma Dance, Heavy Things, Ocelot, Funky Bitch, Bathtub Gin, Fluffhead > Alumni Blues > Letter to Jimmy Page > Alumni Blues, Tube, My Sweet One, David Bowie
Set 2 (9:37-10:53): C&P > Mcgrupp > Mike's Song > Bouncing Around the Room > Axilla > Tweezer > Harry Hood > The Horse > Silent in the Morning > Weekapaug Groove > Suzy Greenberg*
E (10:55-11:05) : BBFCFM > Tweezer Reprise
Last BBFCFM encore 4-8-94 Recreation Hall, Penn State University, State College, PA
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 26, 2012, 11:09:32 PM
Last BBFCFM encore 4-8-94 Recreation Hall, Penn State University, State College, PA
Personally speaking, tonight's was the best thing I've heard them play in a while. Stream was tight tonight as well. :beers:
I know there were repeats but considering other shows, this is a great setlist, imo..
Mike's and Bouncin combo again?
Really enjoyed this one.
Good meeting up with GAH and 'lope pre-show.
g'nite
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Couldn't have been happier about our last minute decision to go. Left Richmond around 1pm and got to Charlotte around 630.
1st set was weird. I think Trey was having monitor issues because it seemed like he couldn't hear the rest of the band. There were a lot of rough parts in the 1st set, but the Alumni banter was fun and the Bowie was good (for 3.0) but not super atypical.
The second set, I thought, was a lot of fun. No huge jams, but Crosseyed > McGrupp (!!!!!) was nice. I remember the jam in McGrupp being especially tasty. I really enjoyed the Tweezer as well, but there certainly wasn't anything groundbreaking.
Didn't stay for the encore, but heard BBFCM from the lot and it sounded like the place was blowing up.
Anywho, we just got back to Richmond. I have class in 5 hours and I'm pretty sure I'll still be high for that.
:wtu:
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Fluffhead was basically a trainwreck. Trey stopped playing for a good minute and Fish had to sing his part. It was actually kinda funny, but... c'mon Trey.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Fluffhead was basically a trainwreck. Trey stopped playing for a good minute and Fish had to sing his part. It was actually kinda funny, but... c'mon Trey.
Sounds...sweet
::train noises::
listened to the tweezer....the band took the jam on a silken journey through skies of gold.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Fluffhead was basically a trainwreck. Trey stopped playing for a good minute and Fish had to sing his part. It was actually kinda funny, but... c'mon Trey.
Funny like haha funny like Trey's a clown like he amuses you?
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 27, 2012, 10:17:24 AM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Fluffhead was basically a trainwreck. Trey stopped playing for a good minute and Fish had to sing his part. It was actually kinda funny, but... c'mon Trey.
Funny like haha funny like Trey's a clown like he amuses you?
Fish was the funny one. I basically just felt bad for Trey.
Hmm, I don't recall any awkwardness during Fluffhead.
I did like the Tweezer, looking forward to giving that another listen.
Not a very improv-heavy show but I thought it was solid top to bottom. Probably not the kind of show that'll blow too many minds on tape, but it was a pleasure to attend.
After listening to the whole show this morning at work, the Mcgrupp and Tweezer are prob the only things I will relisten to from this show.
I guess the BBFCFM > Tweeprise too.
cant wait for denver!
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
It's ok - Widespread Panic will be touring again real soon, son.
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 27, 2012, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
It's ok - Widespread Panic will be touring again real soon, son.
I lol'd
Ramz - I'll rage some panic with you should the opportunity arise
There are two ways of looking at it. Are we comparing today's Phish with 1995's Phish and making an assessment? Or are we comparing today's Phish with all other contemporary non-Phish music and basing our assessments on that?
I think those two approaches yield drastically different conclusions.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on August 27, 2012, 10:00:47 AM
listened to the tweezer....the band took the jam on a silken journey through skies of gold.
I see what you did there.
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 27, 2012, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
It's ok - Widespread Panic will be touring again real soon, son.
C+
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on the show, because you didn't seem to be digging it at all.
I'm not saying this in a snarky way, or in the way that I or perhaps others have said it in the past, but, if you don't like it, don't go. It's simple. Of course, it will take the act of
going to shows to realize what you don't like about them. From what you just said about not "getting it" or really digging it, it seems clear that Phish 3.0 just isn't for you. I've come to a point (in my jaded n00bdom) where I see what's happening with 3.0, too. But I still love the songs. You were sitting down during weekapaug. I was dancing. That's very telling right there.
Here's something else that is telling - a picture of me eating frozen lemonade looking like the crazed lunatic that I was last night:
(https://p.twimg.com/A1UEhmqCUAAzneG.jpg)
^^ is that :wtu: 's shirt?
It's *our* shirt.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
It's *our* shirt.
Dude, I'm leaving for St. Louis TODAY. You better overnight it so I can wear it for the next 5 shows.
Quote from: WhatstheUse? on August 27, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
It's *our* shirt.
Dude, I'm leaving for St. Louis TODAY. You better overnight it so I can wear it for the next 5 shows.
It's my fucking shirt!
George has really been on a frozen treat kick lately.
Quote from: WhatstheUse? on August 27, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
It's *our* shirt.
Dude, I'm leaving for St. Louis TODAY. You better overnight it so I can wear it for the next 5 shows.
using my powers of deduction i guarantee :wtu: is wearing his alpine 2010 shirt....right.....now.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on August 27, 2012, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: WhatstheUse? on August 27, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
It's *our* shirt.
Dude, I'm leaving for St. Louis TODAY. You better overnight it so I can wear it for the next 5 shows.
using my powers of deduction i guarantee :wtu: is wearing his alpine 2010 shirt....right.....now.
With the improvements made in deodorants these days, you really only need 2 shirts.
Wear it for a week, turn it inside out......then switch to the other t-shirt...... you're pretty much solid for a straight month.
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Quote from: phil on August 27, 2012, 03:27:22 AM
How was fluffhead/alumni? Sounds like a cool combo. Looking forward to checking this out tomorrow.
Fluffhead was basically a trainwreck. Trey stopped playing for a good minute and Fish had to sing his part. It was actually kinda funny, but... c'mon Trey.
Sounds...sweet
::train noises::
Just listened to this a couple times. Trey stops playing for just a few beats and fish sings the "bundle of joy" part he usually sings. It sounds like they were having an absolute blast playing and joking. Wish I'd been there.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on the show, because you didn't seem to be digging it at all.
I'm not saying this in a snarky way, or in the way that I or perhaps others have said it in the past, but, if you don't like it, don't go. It's simple. Of course, it will take the act of going to shows to realize what you don't like about them. From what you just said about not "getting it" or really digging it, it seems clear that Phish 3.0 just isn't for you. I've come to a point (in my jaded n00bdom) where I see what's happening with 3.0, too. But I still love the songs. You were sitting down during weekapaug. I was dancing. That's very telling right there.
I think you (and others) confuse my listening with discontent. I spent most of last night studying the stage and the crowd. I like to watch Trey, and watch what he does to the crowd. So I spend a little less time dancing, and a lot of time watching and listening.
Yes, I sat during the weekapaug because I knew they were going to run straight through it, and for me, that's half assing it with gimmicks. I think had it just been the Mike's -> Tweezer -> Weekapaug I would of been super pumped, but for me, that got weighted down with 3.0'try style setlisting by the band. What would get me is that something out of the Tweezer comes out of nowhere and they gain control of the crowd and the momentum builds perfectly only to halt themselves by stepping on their own toes. And they're not learning from it. How is that happening? It simply baffles me. Add to it, I feel like they really are better than say last summer, but oddly enough it also feels way more nostalgic to me than say summer or fall '09.
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 01:36:10 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 27, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on the show, because you didn't seem to be digging it at all.
I'm not saying this in a snarky way, or in the way that I or perhaps others have said it in the past, but, if you don't like it, don't go. It's simple. Of course, it will take the act of going to shows to realize what you don't like about them. From what you just said about not "getting it" or really digging it, it seems clear that Phish 3.0 just isn't for you. I've come to a point (in my jaded n00bdom) where I see what's happening with 3.0, too. But I still love the songs. You were sitting down during weekapaug. I was dancing. That's very telling right there.
I think you (and others) confuse my listening with discontent. I spent most of last night studying the stage and the crowd. I like to watch Trey, and watch what he does to the crowd. So I spend a little less time dancing, and a lot of time watching and listening.
Yes, I sat during the weekapaug because I knew they were going to run straight through it, and for me, that's half assing it with gimmicks. I think had it just been the Mike's -> Tweezer -> Weekapaug I would of been super pumped, but for me, that got weighted down with 3.0'try style setlisting by the band. What would get me is that something out of the Tweezer comes out of nowhere and they gain control of the crowd and the momentum builds perfectly only to halt themselves by stepping on their own toes. And they're not learning from it. How is that happening? It simply baffles me. Add to it, I feel like they really are better than say last summer, but oddly enough it also feels way more nostalgic to me than say summer or fall '09.
There's been over 3 years for the optimism/afterglow of the reunion to wear off and for the real nostalgia-act-ness to set in. Summer 09 was totally different and exciting. But I do think they are a better band now than they were then.
While its a nice soaring jam, trey really whales the hell out of this tweezer.
The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe :rawk: ragin song > ballad > funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad > :rawk: > funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.
Quote from: mirthbeatenworker on August 27, 2012, 01:54:58 PM
While its a nice soaring jam, trey really whales the hell out of this tweezer.
I was more excited that they went for it. That is what it is all about to me, at least taking that sort of risk.
looks like a fun show, especially the encore:
http://youtu.be/s3HzfBU6a_o
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.
Quote from: sunrisevt on August 27, 2012, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.
If you think this is about entitlement, well, you're being a fucking idiot. This hasn't ever been about my ego, but thanks for playing the part of the pompous apologist. You can go fuck yourself along with anyone else that is trying to write off my thoughts on the band because they can't handle my humble opinion. I stated how they make me feel. Isn't that what is about anyway? I'm not telling you how to feel. Sounds like your butt hurt about all the shit in your personal life and you're projecting it onto me. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, or even listen to me. Don't like what I'm posting, put me on ignore. But to just insult me without substance, well, frankly I expected a lot more from someone like you.
Right -- way to rise above, kid.
/out
Yes!
Phan, I have to sympathize with you a little bit.
What McGrupp said about you sitting during Weekapaug is something i struggle with a lot too. We get so used to the orgasmic dizziness that comes from when Phish are locked into the tripping-space of music where it actually fucks with the space-time continuum and makes you feel like your upways-sidedown, that we forget there is a basis from which those experiences jettison: THE SONG.
Weeekapaug is a great song man. When played tightly, that shit, in and of itself, is a peak.
The thing that I often find that I forget a lot, is that Phish songs, ARE PEAKS. Themselves. They, regardless of anything, are climaxes.
Like, Mike's Song. When the jam hits, that shit is epic. Or, should be epic. But we get jaded by hearing it too often. When the Hood drum roll happens, we should get creaming ourselves, because Phish is starting to play Harry Hood. But we've heard it too often. We know what to expect, and we expect what we know, and know that we expect what we can anticipate the band to deliver.
Predictability is rampant, and thus the magic is worn off and collected in a bucket and then tossed out with the fish that didn't make the cut. Except that now, there are 16 year old kids and 22 year old noobs who pick up that tossed-out bucket of fish, and proclaim it the greatest thing since the iPhone3. (there are 3 iphones, right?)
and Phish want to be the fish that are as great as the iPhone3, whether they know it or not. And its by virtue of pragmatism and efficiency that they will allot their energies to the courses of action which elevate themselves to gods most easily.
When 20,000 mindless noobs think you're better than Jimi Hendrix because you play Suzy Greenberg, Meatstick, Boogie On, and Sample in a Jar, why on EARTH would you EVER EVER EVER want to spend an ounce of energy plowing through Ghost -> Seven Below -> Waves to reach transcendence, when you might not get there, because of the fact that those songs carry with them all sorts of unknowns?
Nobody wants surprises anymore. Nobody wants unpredictability. And with that, we lose the gem that was the magic of Phish, the Phish who called to the gods every night, and brought back with them the 7/22/03 Gumbo, the 12/16/99 Tweezer, the 7/4/00 Gotta Jibboo, the 12/31/98 Mike's Song, or the 11/17/97 Ghost. The SPECIAL SAUCE stuff. It takes balls to go out on the edge to reach for those things, and it takes an audience of 20,000 people pushing you to that edge, who WANT YOU to go to that edge, and see what you can reach.
But today, those 20,000 people don't even know there is an edge. They just wanna yell "SUUUUZAAAAYYY" and throw glowsticks in the air.
Sucks being a Phish fan. haha
You really like to blame everyone but the 4 guys on stage for the state of the music.
Quote from: emayPhishyMD on August 27, 2012, 01:59:22 PM
The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe :rawk: ragin song > ballad > funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad > :rawk: > funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.
just curious - why did you think we had a new kind of Phish after that run?
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 04:27:45 PM
Quote from: sunrisevt on August 27, 2012, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
I walked away from Charlotte with one affirmed understanding, that being that the band is incapable of deferring the mundane for the sublime. This band can absolutely get where they always could but unlike the days of yesteryear, they have now developed an uncanny ability to shit themselves and walk around without detecting the slightest stench of the shit they carry. Moments like the Tweezer make me fall in love all again with Phish, and moments like an abrupt mike's > bouncin' make me loathe this band like never before. I simply just can't fathom how it's such a dichotomy of performance and so unstable at the same time. And this isn't particular to Charlotte, the whole weekend felt that way. I think the only palpable explanation or rationalization I can offer myself is I don't get it.
I will say this, unlike last summer, I don't have a bitter or sour taste in my mouth, where I can reflect then and see I was very frustrated what has become of this band, conversely, I walked out of Charlotte with a profound understanding that Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
Trying to imagine a better example of hubristic entitlement, I come up blank. You're a good dude, Rams, but get the fuck over yourself.
If you think this is about entitlement, well, you're being a fucking idiot. This hasn't ever been about my ego, but thanks for playing the part of the pompous apologist. You can go fuck yourself along with anyone else that is trying to write off my thoughts on the band because they can't handle my humble opinion. I stated how they make me feel. Isn't that what is about anyway? I'm not telling you how to feel. Sounds like your butt hurt about all the shit in your personal life and you're projecting it onto me. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, or even listen to me. Don't like what I'm posting, put me on ignore. But to just insult me without substance, well, frankly I expected a lot more from someone like you.
It's all good mang. I'm surprised it took you this long to realize that you and the band are not on the same page - just sayin'.
Some Red River up at the flood-plain level in this thread right now. All of you with lady-friends be wary. When it flows, they know to take the dirt road.
are you talking about girls having their period?
I'm seriously confused.
Quote from: Gumbo72203 on August 28, 2012, 12:09:34 AM
are you talking about girls having their period?
I'm seriously confused.
In a manner of speaking.
That escalated quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI
Seriously, though, Ramz, one sentence too far.
This thread sucks.
Quote from: mehead on August 27, 2012, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: emayPhishyMD on August 27, 2012, 01:59:22 PM
The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe :rawk: ragin song > ballad > funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad > :rawk: > funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.
just curious - why did you think we had a new kind of Phish after that run?
Well, basically becuase there were 3/4 shows that I actually wanted to listen to after I checked out the setlist/song lenghth. The jams alone made me want to go back and listen. If there wasnt one long jam, they had two songs that broke 15 min mark...which I can deal with. They also seemed excited about jamming/musical exploration, since they kept doing it 3/4 nights of the beginning of the run, that hypothesis was ephemeral.
I cant say that for many other 4 night stretches throughout 3.0.
Quote from: emayPhishyMD on August 28, 2012, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: mehead on August 27, 2012, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: emayPhishyMD on August 27, 2012, 01:59:22 PM
The inconsistencies are what kills me as well.
So many times throughout a set I just get bored ofthe :rawk: ragin song > ballad > funky song :banana: > ballad > slower ballad > :rawk: > funky song :banana:
These inconsistencies are seen throughout the leg too. After the Long Beach > San Fran run I thought we had a new kind of Phish on our hands, but ultimately they have fallen back into their standard 3.0 niche. Also felt this way after NYE 09...but they always seem to fall back into the standard 3.0 phish. Which I guess just what I expect out of them now, it is who they are and they cant break through to the intergallactic phish realm, that we have only gotten glimpses of throughout their 3.0 career.
just curious - why did you think we had a new kind of Phish after that run?
Well, basically becuase there were 3/4 shows that I actually wanted to listen to after I checked out the setlist/song lenghth. The jams alone made me want to go back and listen. If there wasnt one long jam, they had two songs that broke 15 min mark...which I can deal with. They also seemed excited about jamming/musical exploration, since they kept doing it 3/4 nights of the beginning of the run, that hypothesis was ephemeral.
I cant say that for many other 4 night stretches throughout 3.0.
They can't all be barn-burners. We'll run out of barns.
Phan, you took sunrise way too seriously. Easy bro. I mean, he was legit saying get the fuck over yourself, but... we can say shit like that to each other. Its still chill, aight? Go grab a banana peel and put it in the microwave for 7 seconds and find yourself a nice, private spot where you can relax.
Also back on topic, you guys realize that there were tons of 1.0 shows with no big jams, right?
Its so funny that the discourse here changes on a show-to-show basis. They play Meatstick one night in the 2nd set, all of a sudden Phish is the worst band in the world. The next show they play a sick Crosseyed with type II jamming, and the world is right again. The next show, they play a 6 minute Piper and Golden Age is under 5 minutes, and all of a sudden Trey wants to be a folk guitarist and obviously doesn't give any shits about jamming or being Mr. Space Rage trippsin'ballz-guy.
4 shows, 5 shows.... does not make a new Phish.
However, I believe that you should not get your panties in a bunch, because if you take the previous entire tour, and compare its contents to every other 3.0 year.... guys, we have the real Phish back.
1) Tour opener - both legs featured Type II jamming prowess.
2) Jam songs - 2 songs became Type II jam vehicles again for the first time since 2004: Birds and Twist
3) Keep jamming - They jammed the entire tour guys. from Worcester to AC to SPAC, theres big jams.
4) STAR LAKE!!!!!!!!!!!
5) THEY'VE PLAYED MCGRUPP LIKE 3 TIMES THIS TOUR (it might only be 2 times, but still.... applicable)
6) Tweezer, on both legs, has fallen under 11 minutes ONLY ONCE.
I'm listening to the Oak Mountain rock and roll right now, and this shit is awesome. Its real Phish. It sounds like a 2000 jam. And I love that. Well, in parts of it it does. I love his chord playing, and theres one theme where he plays a melody, and then this shit dissolves so beautifully. He's playing musical IDEAS in it; not just noodling, is the main point. OMG AND FISH CHANGES THE BEAT!!!!! OMG!!!!! OMG WHAMMYDELAYS!!!!
Did they even play Star Lake this year?
Did I find it worth the time to listen?
I certainly didn't find it worth remembering.
As for those other things, meh.
Glad you're enjoying it all though.
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 28, 2012, 11:26:05 AM
Did they even play Star Lake this year?
Did I find it worth the time to listen?
I certainly didn't find it worth remembering.
As for those other things, meh.
Glad you're enjoying it all though.
Objectively and relatively speaking, Star Lake was actually one of the better shows of the 1st leg.
If you haven't listened to Star Lake you probably should just stop posting about 3.0.
Quote from: Hicks on August 28, 2012, 11:34:40 AM
If you haven't listened to Star Lake you probably should just stop posting about 3.0.
I probably have.
ETA:
I did listen to it. It just wasn't memorable.
Quote from: rowjimmy on June 27, 2012, 09:39:03 AM
The space jam > Light was smooth.
Nothing they haven't done before but still decent.
Still, that's a lot of show to listen to for one brief jam.
RJ, you're missing the Weekapaug. That, mostly, is what you should check. Its not normal. Its a 90paug. Weeka90'spaug. They play it that way.
When there's start/stop funk in a Weekapaug, the world is winning.
Quote from: Gumbo72203 on August 28, 2012, 05:23:25 PM
RJ, you're missing the Weekapaug. That, mostly, is what you should check. Its not normal. Its a 90paug. Weeka90'spaug. They play it that way.
When there's start/stop funk in a Weekapaug, the world is winning.
I too was pleased to hear the first real stop/start funk jam in ages.
ETA: Pretty sweet Simple too.
Heather and I sat on the lawn, just Page-Side of Center... It was a good spot... I saw some old friends and chatted some...
For ALL of the show, I sat on my butt and drank beer. I watched the young PHans dance and do what not... I watched a 2.5yo kid behind us deal with the show... I watched Heather dance... Mostly, I just sat and did nothing... I didn't even really listen...
And it was fantastic!!!
I think I've figured out 3.0 for myself. At this point, its not about the music (for me) but its all about the vibe and scene... There is still nothing that even touches the Magic of a PH show. But at this point, I've listened to and seen so much that nothing will ever "top it" - how do I beat Amsterdam 97, or Ball, or NYE95??? I don't... I just PHlow with the new Jam and accept it...
Except I'm still pissed that I haven't seen a Tela! Those Bastards!!!
Terry
I'm sorry, but I'm just tired of being told that it's self indulgent, or some form of entitled hubris to have an expectation of the band, or to want them to perform at a certain level. It's not. They play like shit, they play like shit. I don't regret the trip to Charlotte or Pelhem. I'm happy I went and I got to see my friends, and to see Phish. But that doesn't mean I'm going to happily lap up whatever shit they spew forth out of their PA or withhold my thoughts about it because it's "hating."
I will concede I did cross the line with sunrise, and I'm sorry for that. That was wrong of me. I do have a lot of frustration with what I feel like is the fact that no one wants to have a real musical discussion these days about this band. It's all about how much acid someone ate, or how fucking epic hard the rage of a crew was at a show, just superfluous bullshit that is hubris to me. That is about the ego, and not about the collective good of music. That's why I got pissed, because this isn't about just me, it should be about all of us, and all of us getting to a better place through a better quality of music.
Right on.
Phan, I hear you man. I know EXACTLY what you're saying, and its why I have issue with the scene now. At large, nobody gives a shit when Trey throws a really cool Dorian lick into the Chalkdust jam, or when Trey starts adding a Diminished scale into a Mike's jam.
Back before time, I like to think that, even though the crowd may not have known exactly what it was that Trey did, they would have all been able to instantly pick up on "OMG DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE JUST DID?"
It was the Jedi Recognition. Today, there is no Jedi Recognition. And when there is no Jedi Recognition, Trey is never going to get that moment where, upon realizing that he himself played something cool, hears the roar of the entire room to back up his assertion and provide reassurance that he can jump off the deep end without even knowing if its water, concrete, or peanut butter that he's going to land in. I mean, because I feel like that the crowd knew that the Ghost they saw played on 11/17/97 was cosmically epic, and not "just Ghost".
Because today, people on livephish flip out over ever 3.0 Harry Hood, when really... Phish hasn't played a good Hood ever since they've come back. Well, maybe 2 or 3. The plinko one was cool, and.... well... thats all I got.
There is a lack of musicianship-appreciation going on, and I think thats got to be some major factor. Because it becomes a DMB-setlist analysis, where the show ruled because they played Suzy, not because Trey unleashed some gnarly triplet pull-offs during a Waves jam.
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:05:56 AM
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Keep your oranges out of this apple discussion.
ETA: Also, we don't want to know what else you found while ironing. Laundry is a private matter.
:hereitisyousentimentalbastard
I think about the current state of Phish and its music quite often. I'm delighted to have these discussions.
With regards to this Charlotte show specifically, I thought it was a rollicking good time. I'm sure I won't spend a whole lot of time re-listening to it (I haven't done so yet), but I think we get hung up on replay value and the at-home listening experience when we review concerts. These are supposed to be consumed as live, in-person events; what's more valid than reviewing the actual, complete concert experience? (You could say, yes, but Phish also sells SBDs and streams webcasts; true enough, but these are ancillary products. When Phish goes on the road, they are doing so to play shows in front of live audiences -- that's pretty much the whole point.)
My point with this is that I think it's still perfectly possible to attend a Phish show and have a great time and enjoy some great music, even if they don't go on multiple 20-minute psychedelic jaunts or play a five-song set. That might have been Phish's thing at one point in their history, and it might have made for some great playback listening, but it's not their thing nowadays.
And was that Phish's thing in, say, 1991? No, it wasn't. I think the band has always been more about their song catalog than we seem to assume, having fallen in love as we did with their propensity for the kind of extended improv that reared in the mid-late 1990's. More than a couple times, I thought to myself during the Charlotte show what a pleasure it is just to enjoy hearing Phish play their songs live. I don't spend a whole lot of time sitting at home spinning versions of Axilla, but I don't have a lot of opportunities to hear them play that song in person, so I'm not going to write off the experience just because it isn't going to spawn an epic jam. And I don't know what people's positions are these days on how well Phish performs composed sections of tunes; I for one either am not hearing a bunch of garbage slop up there or it's not affecting me, so the point I'm making in this paragraph stands.
General comments about set flow and song selection are always valid, of course. Take the Wading and Joy from Atlanta's second set ... no thank you. But I thought Charlotte's show was very well constructed and well executed from top to bottom, even though the only tune they took for a ride was Tweezer. And to Gumbo's earlier point, the crowd was loving it. It was the most jazzed crowd I've experienced in recent memory. When you have that many adoring fans cheering you and validating what you're doing on stage, what about that? The band, for their part, also clearly appeared to be having a great time and thought they were putting on a solid show.
Maybe I just happened to be in the right mood for this show. Maybe if I were feeling cynical I would have been compelled to bemoan the relative lack of open improv or the perfunctory Tube or the Mike's > Bouncin. Instead, I was more than content to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy listening to what I thought was well played, energetic music. (Didn't even need to be on any dr00gs or anything.)
If I never listen to this show again, I'll still remember it as being a great concert that was well worth attending. If I do listen to it again, I could well decide "OK, I don't need to go revisiting that any time soon." But that won't change the experience nor, do I think, what is an appropriate way of looking back on and analyzing the entire "concert" itself.
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:05:56 AM
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Keep your oranges out of this apple discussion.
ETA: Also, we don't want to know what else you found while ironing. Laundry is a private matter.
I send my clothes out - haven't actually ironed as much as a single shirt in years.
Also, they are hardly apples and oranges... Comparisons have been and will always be made. I am not shying away.
I'm just saying, I can't stand Brent-era Dead. RJ and soph can't stand 3.0. I get it. I find it
ironic that nobody else seems to see the parallel. It's there.
Quote from: V00D00BR3W on August 29, 2012, 11:19:32 AM
Maybe I just happened to be in the right mood for this show. Maybe if I were feeling cynical I would have been compelled to bemoan the relative lack of open improv or the perfunctory Tube or the Mike's > Bouncin. Instead, I was more than content to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy listening to what I thought was well played, energetic music. (Didn't even need to be on any dr00gs or anything.)
If I never listen to this show again, I'll still remember it as being a great concert that was well worth attending. If I do listen to it again, I could well decide "OK, I don't need to go revisiting that any time soon." But that won't change the experience nor, do I think, what is an appropriate way of looking back on and analyzing the entire "concert" itself.
This is a great point - I can look back at my experiences and validate this point in the negative. I hated Clifford Ball. I had a miserable time. The tapes from the event became some of my favorites ever, and the DVD release is Phish's best DVD release to date, imo. But I was broke and miserable at the shows and left feeling soured on the whole thing.
I didn't see another show until 12/29/97 and I saw a new band and was completely energized and excited about Phish again.
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:05:56 AM
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Keep your oranges out of this apple discussion.
ETA: Also, we don't want to know what else you found while ironing. Laundry is a private matter.
I send my clothes out - haven't actually ironed as much as a single shirt in years.
Also, they are hardly apples and oranges... Comparisons have been and will always be made. I am not shying away.
I'm just saying, I can't stand Brent-era Dead. RJ and soph can't stand 3.0. I get it. I find it ironic that nobody else seems to see the parallel. It's there.
You also weren't a Dead fan 20 years ago...
And Sophist was in grade school.
The closer you look the more it falls apart.
Lets stick to talking about how Phish shit the bed (or didn't) and leave aside the fact that you cannot understand that Brent Mydland rules your face.
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:31:39 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:05:56 AM
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Keep your oranges out of this apple discussion.
ETA: Also, we don't want to know what else you found while ironing. Laundry is a private matter.
I send my clothes out - haven't actually ironed as much as a single shirt in years.
Also, they are hardly apples and oranges... Comparisons have been and will always be made. I am not shying away.
I'm just saying, I can't stand Brent-era Dead. RJ and soph can't stand 3.0. I get it. I find it ironic that nobody else seems to see the parallel. It's there.
You also weren't a Dead fan 20 years ago...
And Sophist was in grade school.
The closer you look the more it falls apart.
Lets stick to talking about how Phish shit the bed (or didn't) and leave aside the fact that you cannot understand that Brent Mydland rules your face.
when destroying an argument goes incredibly right...
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:31:39 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 29, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:05:56 AM
I find ironing in the folks gushing all over the Dead Spring 90 box set and dissing 2012 Phish. /just saying.
Keep your oranges out of this apple discussion.
ETA: Also, we don't want to know what else you found while ironing. Laundry is a private matter.
I send my clothes out - haven't actually ironed as much as a single shirt in years.
Also, they are hardly apples and oranges... Comparisons have been and will always be made. I am not shying away.
I'm just saying, I can't stand Brent-era Dead. RJ and soph can't stand 3.0. I get it. I find it ironic that nobody else seems to see the parallel. It's there.
You also weren't a Dead fan 20 years ago...
And Sophist was in grade school.
The closer you look the more it falls apart.
This kinda proves my point - Sophist wasn't a Phish fan 20 years ago either... I was. I see Phish 3.0 as part of the continuum of Phish because I have a long perspective of their career and can appreciate the direction they are taking now.
I don't have that long perspective of the Dead and I have trouble appreciate the directions they took with Brent and later. It doesn't suit me. In Sophist's terms, I never could get "on the same page" as the later Dead years. He stated:
Quote from: sophist on August 27, 2012, 10:39:37 AM
Phish and I are truly not on the same page, and I don't think we will be ever again.
That's the parallel I am drawing. It makes sense. I'm trying to offer some reason why you may understand where I'm coming from when I say I like 3.0 while you don't. I'm not telling you to like 3.0 just like you're not telling me to like later era Dead. I'm trying to offer some level of understanding on why we can both be right.
I think it's a valid parallel that does not fall apart on further inspection.
Oh, were you just commenting about Sophist's dislike of Phish 3.0?
I'll just step aside, then.
Even though I completely agree with him.
I don't think it works though. I've been a Phish fan since I was 13 years old (that's 14 years), that is most of my life. I got into the Dead when I was 19 years old, and fell in love a few years after that. I've loved Phish a lot longer than the Dead. I think it is the opposite of your point. I love a band more that I haven't ever seen live, and I've grown distant from a band I've seen live 54 times.
Musically, there is also a lot more going on with Dead Spring '90 than with Phish summer '12. That's the biggest part of it for me. Spring '90 has some all time jams in my opinion.
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 11:47:53 AM
I don't think it works though. I've been a Phish fan since I was 13 years old (that's 14 years), that is most of my life. I got into the Dead when I was 19 years old, and fell in love a few years after that. I've loved Phish a lot longer than the Dead. I think it is the opposite of your point. I love a band more that I haven't ever seen live, and I've grown distant from a band I've seen live 54 times.
Musically, there is also a lot more going on with Dead Spring '90 than with Phish summer '12. That's the biggest part of it for me. Spring '90 has some all time jams in my opinion.
I think Summer 2012 has some great jams. I really do. Are they every night? No. But there is some great stuff happening and it makes me really happy.
So far this tour makes a decent mix cd.
Perhaps even a great one when graded on a 3.0 scale.
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
I'm not saying it doesn't have good music. But case and point, the 3/22/90 Scarlet > Fire is easily one the greatest versions ever played by the Dead. I'm having a hard time seeing that with 2012 Phish. That's what I am getting at with my perspective. And I agree, it is producing enough material to make a killer mixed cd(s).
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Agreed on the progress the band has made/is making. I just hope taking time off to go to the studio allows them to build on said progress, not take away from it.
Quote from: antelope19 on August 29, 2012, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Agreed on the progress the band has made/is making. I just hope taking time off to go to the studio allows them to build on said progress, not take away from it.
What if Trey just wants to work up another new version of "Let Me
D Lie"?
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
have you listened to Kansas City > Charlotte ?
It's not on the same level as BG III. Huge regression. BG III has replay value. The last four do not.
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
I'm just saying, I can't stand Brent-era Dead.
MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP!!!!!
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
yup
exactly
To compare Spring '90 to Summer '12 is laughable. I know what you're
trying to say PG but it doesn't hold up. There is no irony at all and they are apples and oranges. I'm a HUGE Brent fan but Spring '90 is really the only post '78 :syf: that I listen to (Fall '94 every once in a great while). Like others have said, you might get a decent mix cd out of the whole summer '12 tour but I can't see myself ever relistening to much of anything from this year. I haven't listened to much of Leg 2 but when I hit the discussion thread, I know I haven't missed anything. IMO, there is absolutely nothing going on except for, well, nothing.
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
have you listened to Kansas City > Charlotte ?
It's not on the same level as BG III. Huge regression. BG III has replay value. The last four do not.
I have and was deflated a bit scratching my head, yes. Consistency is still an issue, last nights show reviews have put a smile back on my face. It says a lot to me that we can finally have this discussion in the first place though. I listen back to basically nothing from 09-11 and now I choose to listen to summer 2012 since they are finally creating. Yes, I'd rather listen to 3.0 at this juncture than 1.0 because it's happening now and will hopefully continue in similar or better fashion.
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
yup
exactly
To compare Spring '90 to Summer '12 is laughable. I know what you're trying to say PG but it doesn't hold up. There is no irony at all and they are apples and oranges. I'm a HUGE Brent fan but Spring '90 is really the only post '78 :syf: that I listen to (Fall '94 every once in a great while). Like others have said, you might get a decent mix cd out of the whole summer '12 tour but I can't see myself ever relistening to much of anything from this year. I haven't listened to much of Leg 2 but when I hit the discussion thread, I know I haven't missed anything. IMO, there is absolutely nothing going on except for, well, nothing.
But when you hit the discussion thread, how much of it is people bitching about song lengths or "they played BDTNL again" versus people who attended the shows bitching that it was a shitty show? By far, it's the former. Which is why I think we're really having two different kinds of conversation when we review concerts vs. recordings, and why I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Phish sucks donkey dick in 2012 because you don't find the recordings or streams to be too compelling.
I say this, by the way, as someone who finished last summer's southern run in Raleigh thinking that seeing Phish 3.0 basically wasn't doing it for me any more... I'm feeling better these days...
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Maybe I missed something on this tour, but what have they done this summer that gives you confidence that soemthing magical will happen on a somewhat nightly basis? What "point" have they made it to?
Quote from: PIE-GUY on August 29, 2012, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 11:47:53 AM
I don't think it works though. I've been a Phish fan since I was 13 years old (that's 14 years), that is most of my life. I got into the Dead when I was 19 years old, and fell in love a few years after that. I've loved Phish a lot longer than the Dead. I think it is the opposite of your point. I love a band more that I haven't ever seen live, and I've grown distant from a band I've seen live 54 times.
Musically, there is also a lot more going on with Dead Spring '90 than with Phish summer '12. That's the biggest part of it for me. Spring '90 has some all time jams in my opinion.
I think Summer 2012 has some great jams. I really do. Are they every night? No. But there is some great stuff happening and it makes me really happy.
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
Quote from: V00D00BR3W on August 29, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
yup
exactly
To compare Spring '90 to Summer '12 is laughable. I know what you're trying to say PG but it doesn't hold up. There is no irony at all and they are apples and oranges. I'm a HUGE Brent fan but Spring '90 is really the only post '78 :syf: that I listen to (Fall '94 every once in a great while). Like others have said, you might get a decent mix cd out of the whole summer '12 tour but I can't see myself ever relistening to much of anything from this year. I haven't listened to much of Leg 2 but when I hit the discussion thread, I know I haven't missed anything. IMO, there is absolutely nothing going on except for, well, nothing.
But when you hit the discussion thread, how much of it is people bitching about song lengths or "they played BDTNL again" versus people who attended the shows bitching that it was a shitty show? By far, it's the former. Which is why I think we're really having two different kinds of conversation when we review concerts vs. recordings, and why I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Phish sucks donkey dick in 2012 because you don't find the recordings or streams to be too compelling.
I say this, by the way, as someone who finished last summer's southern run in Raleigh thinking that seeing Phish 3.0 basically wasn't doing it for me any more... I'm feeling better these days...
You're right about the discussion thread, which is my point. There is nothing musically going on to discuss. How is it not fair to say they suck based on the recordings? Since I'm not at the show, what else is there?
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Maybe I missed something on this tour, but what have they done this summer that gives you confidence that soemthing magical will happen on a somewhat nightly basis? What "point" have they made it to?
8/15 rock and roll, ghost, hood
8/19 Crosseyed through Theme
8/22 Tweezer
8/28 Limb (still have not heard)
If none of this excites you then there may be no light at the end of your tunnel. I'm not expecting 1.0 style jams anymore but they are creating and getting outside the box, at times. I was in full hate of these guys after the Gorge/Tahoe run i saw last summer and the pathetic NYE run which thankfully I did not attend. Now? I'm already allocating funds for phish 2013.
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Maybe I missed something on this tour, but what have they done this summer that gives you confidence that soemthing magical will happen on a somewhat nightly basis? What "point" have they made it to?
8/15 rock and roll, ghost, hood
8/19 Crosseyed through Theme
8/22 Tweezer
8/28 Limb (still have not heard)
If none of this excites you then there may be no light at the end of your tunnel. I'm not expecting 1.0 style jams anymore but they are creating and getting outside the box, at times. I was in full hate of these guys after the Gorge/Tahoe run i saw last summer and the pathetic NYE run which thankfully I did not attend. Now? I'm already allocating funds for phish 2013.
Really? Just because of 4 segments of music in one tour? Not trying to challenge your logic, that just surprises me.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Maybe I missed something on this tour, but what have they done this summer that gives you confidence that soemthing magical will happen on a somewhat nightly basis? What "point" have they made it to?
8/15 rock and roll, ghost, hood
8/19 Crosseyed through Theme
8/22 Tweezer
8/28 Limb (still have not heard)
If none of this excites you then there may be no light at the end of your tunnel. I'm not expecting 1.0 style jams anymore but they are creating and getting outside the box, at times. I was in full hate of these guys after the Gorge/Tahoe run i saw last summer and the pathetic NYE run which thankfully I did not attend. Now? I'm already allocating funds for phish 2013.
Really? Just because of 4 segments of music in one tour? Not trying to challenge your logic, that just surprises me.
In my world it takes much forethought to save for vacationing and especially phish. I saved up zero funds for San Fran because I was not too into dropping coin in the first place after their last year of playing. All I'm saying is that yes, after leg 1 and what has been done in leg 2 I'm willing to put away to see phish again. Remember, I see shows with my wife so everything is x2 and I have to travel far distances to see them in a small and highly demanding west coast phish market.
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: whatapiper on August 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
Not to eaves drop or jump into your discussion late but we could put together a great shows worth of music from this summer, maybe 2 and we still have four shows left. Years past would have been brutal IMO to do so. Bvaz or whoever used to say we have no top 20 versions in 3.0 with the exception of the MSG 09 YEM, I think we may have some standout versions of other songs into that contention. This has been the summer where I finally have confidence in Phish to do something magical on a somewhat nightly basis and in interesting places. 8/19 completely re-energized me in a way that I have a hard time when others don't share in my joy. Im ecstatic they have made it to this point and hopefully build on it more and more. Phish 3.0 for the first time since 09 is not a four letter word in my mind. ::Rant finished, love you all::
Maybe I missed something on this tour, but what have they done this summer that gives you confidence that soemthing magical will happen on a somewhat nightly basis? What "point" have they made it to?
8/15 rock and roll, ghost, hood
8/19 Crosseyed through Theme
8/22 Tweezer
8/28 Limb (still have not heard)
If none of this excites you then there may be no light at the end of your tunnel. I'm not expecting 1.0 style jams anymore but they are creating and getting outside the box, at times. I was in full hate of these guys after the Gorge/Tahoe run i saw last summer and the pathetic NYE run which thankfully I did not attend. Now? I'm already allocating funds for phish 2013.
Really? Just because of 4 segments of music in one tour? Not trying to challenge your logic, that just surprises me.
In my world it takes much forethought to save for vacationing and especially phish. I saved up zero funds for San Fran because I was not too into dropping coin in the first place after their last year of playing. All I'm saying is that yes, after leg 1 and what has been done in leg 2 I'm willing to put away to see phish again. Remember, I see shows with my wife so everything is x2 and I have to travel far distances to see them in a small and highly demanding west coast phish market.
Fair enough.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
Well put.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
You clicked on a thread that is titled Post Show
Discussion and Review.
So you kind of opt in to that discussion when you click on the thread.
If you think it's a dead horse then maybe don't visit this part of the board?
Quote from: Hicks on August 29, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
You clicked on a thread that is titled Post Show Discussion and Review.
So you kind of opt in to that discussion when you click on the thread.
If you think it's a dead horse then maybe don't visit this part of the board?
Maybe you didn't understand my point. I don't mind the discussion itself. I said discourse can be fun
sometimes but
other times it seems pointless. Yes, I do see the irony of me pointing that out in a discussion thread. What I have a problem with is how personally people take it when their opinions clash with the opinions of others.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Hicks on August 29, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
You clicked on a thread that is titled Post Show Discussion and Review.
So you kind of opt in to that discussion when you click on the thread.
If you think it's a dead horse then maybe don't visit this part of the board?
Maybe you didn't understand my point. I don't mind the discussion itself. I said discourse can be fun sometimes but other times it seems pointless. Yes, I do see the irony of me pointing that out in a discussion thread. What I have a problem with is how personally people take it when their opinions clash with the opinions of others.
Well yeah, personal attacks because people don't agree with you is fucktarded.
Quote from: Hicks on August 29, 2012, 02:21:25 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: Hicks on August 29, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on August 29, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Hey guys, let's all beat the horse that's been dead for 3 years!
Everyone has an opinion. Every person is not the same. Thus, every opinion is not the same.
Discourse can be fun sometimes, but other times I wish we could just leave it at that ^.
You clicked on a thread that is titled Post Show Discussion and Review.
So you kind of opt in to that discussion when you click on the thread.
If you think it's a dead horse then maybe don't visit this part of the board?
Maybe you didn't understand my point. I don't mind the discussion itself. I said discourse can be fun sometimes but other times it seems pointless. Yes, I do see the irony of me pointing that out in a discussion thread. What I have a problem with is how personally people take it when their opinions clash with the opinions of others.
Well yeah, personal attacks because people don't agree with you is fucktarded.
'zactly!
all generalizations are bad.
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: V00D00BR3W on August 29, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
yup
exactly
To compare Spring '90 to Summer '12 is laughable. I know what you're trying to say PG but it doesn't hold up. There is no irony at all and they are apples and oranges. I'm a HUGE Brent fan but Spring '90 is really the only post '78 :syf: that I listen to (Fall '94 every once in a great while). Like others have said, you might get a decent mix cd out of the whole summer '12 tour but I can't see myself ever relistening to much of anything from this year. I haven't listened to much of Leg 2 but when I hit the discussion thread, I know I haven't missed anything. IMO, there is absolutely nothing going on except for, well, nothing.
But when you hit the discussion thread, how much of it is people bitching about song lengths or "they played BDTNL again" versus people who attended the shows bitching that it was a shitty show? By far, it's the former. Which is why I think we're really having two different kinds of conversation when we review concerts vs. recordings, and why I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Phish sucks donkey dick in 2012 because you don't find the recordings or streams to be too compelling.
I say this, by the way, as someone who finished last summer's southern run in Raleigh thinking that seeing Phish 3.0 basically wasn't doing it for me any more... I'm feeling better these days...
You're right about the discussion thread, which is my point. There is nothing musically going on to discuss. How is it not fair to say they suck based on the recordings? Since I'm not at the show, what else is there?
That's why I'm saying it's one thing to declare that "recordings of Phish concerts in 2012 suck" but another to conclude from this that "Phish concerts suck" or "Phish sucks." I see a lot of people jumping to those final conclusions and, in my opinion, it's not necessarily accurate or fair. (I know sophist did attend Charlotte and he hated it; I attended and loved it; we're just going to have a divergent opinion there.)
Not all bands out there make a deliberate attempt to offer up an entirely different show night after night. You might get pretty bored going on Tom Petty or Paul McCartney tour, or listening to a recording of more than one show, but you could still go to one single show of theirs and come out of it saying you had a really great time. Even if the Bozeman Tweezers and Providence Bowies were a lifetime ago, I think Phish shows have enough going on musically to make going to a handful per tour or per year worthwhile, and even make checking out the recordings worthwhile. And if they don't have a terrifically long shelf life after that, so be it. The show was the show, and the recording is the recording. And again, those epic, monstrous jams also didn't exist in the earlier days when Phish was rising to its mid-90's prominence. The band grew on the strength of its diverse, energetic live shows (with occasional jamming), and its catalog of great songs. That seems to be the Phish formula nowadays as well.
Quote from: V00D00BR3W on August 29, 2012, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: V00D00BR3W on August 29, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: mehead on August 29, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: sophist on August 29, 2012, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: mattstick on August 29, 2012, 12:01:52 PM
One of the points David Lemieux raised in reference to the Spring 90 box is that every show is good. No duds.
The Grateful Dead have already released several shows from Spring '90 officially.
Can you imagine Phish, 20 years from now, releasing a couple of shows from Summer '12 - then releasing a boxset of 6 more?
The Grateful Dead found a new gear in Spring '90, Phish can't seem to find the clutch these days.
exactly. That is what I am getting at with the comparison. Well said Matt.
yup
exactly
To compare Spring '90 to Summer '12 is laughable. I know what you're trying to say PG but it doesn't hold up. There is no irony at all and they are apples and oranges. I'm a HUGE Brent fan but Spring '90 is really the only post '78 :syf: that I listen to (Fall '94 every once in a great while). Like others have said, you might get a decent mix cd out of the whole summer '12 tour but I can't see myself ever relistening to much of anything from this year. I haven't listened to much of Leg 2 but when I hit the discussion thread, I know I haven't missed anything. IMO, there is absolutely nothing going on except for, well, nothing.
But when you hit the discussion thread, how much of it is people bitching about song lengths or "they played BDTNL again" versus people who attended the shows bitching that it was a shitty show? By far, it's the former. Which is why I think we're really having two different kinds of conversation when we review concerts vs. recordings, and why I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Phish sucks donkey dick in 2012 because you don't find the recordings or streams to be too compelling.
I say this, by the way, as someone who finished last summer's southern run in Raleigh thinking that seeing Phish 3.0 basically wasn't doing it for me any more... I'm feeling better these days...
You're right about the discussion thread, which is my point. There is nothing musically going on to discuss. How is it not fair to say they suck based on the recordings? Since I'm not at the show, what else is there?
That's why I'm saying it's one thing to declare that "recordings of Phish concerts in 2012 suck" but another to conclude from this that "Phish concerts suck" or "Phish sucks." I see a lot of people jumping to those final conclusions and, in my opinion, it's not necessarily accurate or fair. (I know sophist did attend Charlotte and he hated it; I attended and loved it; we're just going to have a divergent opinion there.)
Not all bands out there make a deliberate attempt to offer up an entirely different show night after night. You might get pretty bored going on Tom Petty or Paul McCartney tour, or listening to a recording of more than one show, but you could still go to one single show of theirs and come out of it saying you had a really great time. Even if the Bozeman Tweezers and Providence Bowies were a lifetime ago, I think Phish shows have enough going on musically to make going to a handful per tour or per year worthwhile, and even make checking out the recordings worthwhile. And if they don't have a terrifically long shelf life after that, so be it. The show was the show, and the recording is the recording. And again, those epic, monstrous jams also didn't exist in the earlier days when Phish was rising to its mid-90's prominence. The band grew on the strength of its diverse, energetic live shows (with occasional jamming), and its catalog of great songs. That seems to be the Phish formula nowadays as well.
That might be the formula nowadays, but for me it's not working. There is more to it than just the lack of jamming. There is Trey's tone, Trey's inability to play a lot of their staple songs, the constant ripcord, etc.
I'm with mehead that there's much more wrong than just the lack of jamming. VDB, you keep making the comparison to the early '90s without conceding that the precision they play with today is no where near what it once was. I really have a tough time listening to some of the throwaway songs now (i.e., usually the first set and about half of the second) whereas I am still enthralled by a straightforward '92 Tweezer.
But the biggest problem for me these days is the inconsistency. I'm happy for whatapiper and others who see improved and (sometimes) extended jams as progress and a sign of good things to come. But I go the other way with it. I see this constant back and forth between hope and despair as rather disconcerting. It used to be that no matter how many shows I saw I was sure I'd walk out hearing something pretty awesome. Even during 2.0, I knew I may have to put up with some slop, but I always believed there was going to be a payoff at some point during the show. I can't say that anymore. So I have to hope that when I do get to see them once or twice a year it happens to be on one of the every 3rd or 4th or 5th nights when they're clicking. I just don't know that it's worth it for me anymore, and that's kinda sad to me.
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 29, 2012, 05:10:20 PM
I'm with mehead that there's much more wrong than just the lack of jamming. VDB, you keep making the comparison to the early '90s without conceding that the precision they play with today is no where near what it once was.
I can concede that; I'm not trying to say the two eras are exactly the same, just that maybe Phish themselves are trying to be more like the band they were in 1993 as opposed to 1997. We can't know for sure, of course... just a theory.
And, I'm also suggesting that the difference between good shows and pedestrian shows is amplified in the context of at-home listening, when you don't have the rest of the great things that exist about
all Phish shows to buoy your concert-going experience. And, at the end of the day, I think it's more fair and immediately relevant to judge Phish shows as live events vs. just the recordings they leave behind.
Phish is a great thing right now. However, to acknowledge mehead and phan, and maybe runawayjimbo, there are a couple things that are detracting and thus, DISTRACTING the band, I think, from reaching the greased-onion flow-state of star-eyed orgasms like 12/16/99.
1) Trey's tone/guitar. Every jam/solo, you hear him fight with his volume knob, and its REALLY annoying. He NEVER has his volume right. He's always fucking with it, and the swell noise ruins things. His tone is piercing very often. Its not the smooth Jedi juice of 97-00.
2) the ripcord. Granted, we don't have a Horse Force, but things like the end of Undermind at 8/28.... clearly, the band wanted to keep grooving, but Trey refused to let that happen. Now, either he could simply be unwilling to let it happen, or oblivious to how in sync the rest of the band is. I'm not really sure.
BUT, when you have things like the Long Beach Ghost, you have to understand that Phish is still amazing. Anybody who isn't talking or flipping out over that Ghost, simply has not listened to it. and to levy a criticism of a thing without first fully experiencing the entirety of the thing, well... thats pretty weak. How are you going to levy a judgment on something before you've gotten to know the whole thing?
Judging Phish, on this leg, by the basis of looking at setlists and song lengths, and then listening to the ONE thing most people talk about in a thread.... thats pretty lame.
Like, if i only paid attention to what people talked about in the 8/28 thread, I would have never discovered the cool shit happening in the Chalkdust -> Frankie Says -> Undermind sequence. The seamless jamming INTO and OUT OF Frankie Says is probably the coolest segue that has happened all year. And nobody gives a shit.
Isn't that telling?
Ran through this yesterday. First set is pretty lackluster in terms of how they rush through everything in the first set. The second set is kind of boring to me. Pretty weak version of C+P, the Mike's sammy sucks minus the Tweezer, which is the only thing worth revisiting in my opinion. All, in all, I feel about the same post shows as I did upon relisten. The only set from the weekend that improved to me upon relisten was set II of Atlanta. It's not to say it is a good set to me, but it's better than I thought.
Quote from: sophist on August 31, 2012, 09:35:20 AM
Ran through this yesterday. First set is pretty lackluster in terms of how they rush through everything in the first set. The second set is kind of boring to me. Pretty weak version of C+P, the Mike's sammy sucks minus the Tweezer, which is the only thing worth revisiting in my opinion. All, in all, I feel about the same post shows as I did upon relisten. The only set from the weekend that improved to me upon relisten was set II of Atlanta. It's not to say it is a good set to me, but it's better than I thought.
Agree with that 100%
As for me, I'm now getting around to re-listening to this. I absolutely love the transition from CEP to Mcgrupp. Not a best ever version of either song, but solid nonetheless. This might be the best played Bowie I've personally seen in 3.0 and this Tweezer is just wonderful, IMO. Also an instant-favorite 3.0 version of mine. Fluffhead is always nice and this version is pretty damn funny with Fish taking the vocals. The banter after fluff cracks me up too.
I still don't know if they've ever played a tweezer in the mike's-paug sandwich. Not that it really matters.
Definitely enjoying this Tweezer more and more with each re-listen. At first I thought 8/22 had it sunk - the whale section in Charlotte is fairly dull, and Page is partly to blame, he just doesn't step up in that section - but I can hear now that 8/22 was Charlotte in utero. However, this is the first tour for me at least where I am able with a straight face to compare SEVERAL Tweezers from a tour enjoyably without there being one (or none) which standout head and shoulders above the rest (or they are all smegma). If you were going to make a mix CD or two of this second leg, I don't see how this Tweezer could be left off.
Didn't think the Bowie on tape was much to get excited about, good closer, but nothing else. McGrupp is fun too.
Might just be me, but this Tweezer is what I keep going back and listening to (over and over) when I want to hear something from this past tour. I've whittled it down to manageable: Denver Undermind, Denver Caspian > Light, AC Heavy Things, AC 2001 > Reba, Cincy KDF > Twist, Worcester Boogie > If I Could, Long Beach Rock and Roll > Ghost, Alpine Fee and 46 Days, Noblesville McGrupp > Train (I'm missing something from somewhere in there...not from Denver or SPAC, not the Limb from leg II.).
At any rate, this Charlotte Tweezer ranks for me as a top 10 2009+ moment. Anyone else?
The drop back in after the whale is sublime, and it is so RARE to hear it these days. I wish I could see a close up vid for this song to know if they did a head nod/hand signal for the drop, or if they were all on the same page and didn't need that shit.
Gotta admit - I haven't listened to this Tweezer since the show. I sure liked it at the time. Really need to go back and give this whole show a spin.