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Started by rowjimmy, March 19, 2008, 03:08:28 PM

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VDB

Is this still Wombat?

rowjimmy

I love that an mtv VJ that was never particularly relevant because she was an mtv VJ is somehow a mouthpiece for a "movement".

In the 21st century libertianism is little more than anarchy for rich white people.

VDB

Hey, I used to kinda have a crush on Kennedy.
Is this still Wombat?

runawayjimbo

Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
I love that an mtv VJ that was never particularly relevant because she was an mtv VJ is somehow a mouthpiece for a "movement".

Who made her the mouthpiece? The only reason her name came up is cause she made a (solid) analogy in a 6,600 word article about libertarians in which she was named exactly 12 times (that's 0.2% for those keeping score). Cool scare quotes tho.

Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
In the 21st century libertianism is little more than anarchy for rich white people.

You know how silly it sounds when people say "Obama is a socialist?" This reminds me of that.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

rowjimmy

Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
I love that an mtv VJ that was never particularly relevant because she was an mtv VJ is somehow a mouthpiece for a "movement".

Who made her the mouthpiece? The only reason her name came up is cause she made a (solid) analogy in a 6,600 word article about libertarians in which she was named exactly 12 times (that's 0.2% for those keeping score). Cool scare quotes tho.

Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
In the 21st century libertianism is little more than anarchy for rich white people.

You know how silly it sounds when people say "Obama is a socialist?" This reminds me of that.

Those aren't scare quotes, that's me belittling people.

Also you just compared hyperbole to a lie.
Slick.

runawayjimbo

Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
I love that an mtv VJ that was never particularly relevant because she was an mtv VJ is somehow a mouthpiece for a "movement".

Who made her the mouthpiece? The only reason her name came up is cause she made a (solid) analogy in a 6,600 word article about libertarians in which she was named exactly 12 times (that's 0.2% for those keeping score). Cool scare quotes tho.

Quote from: rowjimmy on August 14, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
In the 21st century libertianism is little more than anarchy for rich white people.

You know how silly it sounds when people say "Obama is a socialist?" This reminds me of that.

Those aren't scare quotes, that's me belittling people.

Also you just compared hyperbole to a lie.
Slick.

Yes, there's a lot of that "belittling" going around (I'm sure it wasn't me, though, just people). As I said, it's quite "enjoyable" watching the "collective panic" from both "progressives" and "conservatives."
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mbw

#1071
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 08:39:59 AM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 01:06:02 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 13, 2014, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 13, 2014, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: mbw on August 13, 2014, 03:59:08 PM
meh, fuck that racist pos.  kurt would be sickened by him, so fuck that picture too.

DRINK

That's not a very funny retort.

Also, completely agree with mbw.

Well you don't go for my tl;dr comments, so I figured I'd stick to the snappy one liners like you guys.

Needless to say, I do not agree. But I get how it's totally easier to call someone with whom you don't agree a racist pos.

No, see, if I don't agree with his assertion that:

"Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began"

or

'Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for that pro-communist philanderer, Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day."

I can indeed call him a racist pos.

Got links or are you just making that up?


Am I to believe that you have never heard of the controversy of the Ron Paul Newsletter? 
That is about as believable that Ron Paul didn't write or approve the contents of The Ron Paul Newsletter published By Ron Paul and Associates of which Ron Paul was the president, duh, of which made him a bunch of money.

Do I really need to google that for you?

Do I need to google for you his voting record on making MLK Day a national holiday?  I can save you the time by letting you know he voted Nay, both times it was brought to vote.  I mean I can link you to it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't news to you.

Please let me know if you still require links.

runawayjimbo

Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 04:23:34 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 08:39:59 AM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 01:06:02 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 13, 2014, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 13, 2014, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: mbw on August 13, 2014, 03:59:08 PM
meh, fuck that racist pos.  kurt would be sickened by him, so fuck that picture too.

DRINK

That's not a very funny retort.

Also, completely agree with mbw.

Well you don't go for my tl;dr comments, so I figured I'd stick to the snappy one liners like you guys.

Needless to say, I do not agree. But I get how it's totally easier to call someone with whom you don't agree a racist pos.

No, see, if I don't agree with his assertion that:

"Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began"

or

'Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for that pro-communist philanderer, Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day."

I can indeed call him a racist pos.

Got links or are you just making that up?


Am I to believe that you have never heard of the controversy of the Ron Paul Newsletter? 
That is about as believable that Ron Paul didn't write or approve the contents of The Ron Paul Newsletter published By Ron Paul and Associates of which Ron Paul was the president, duh, of which made him a bunch of money.

Do I really need to google that for you?

Do I need to google for you his voting record on making MLK Day a national holiday?  I can save you the time by letting you know he voted Nay, both times it was brought to vote.  I mean I can link you to it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't news to you.

Please let me know if you still require links.

Yeah, I skipped the second quote after I LOL'd at the first (which I didn't recognize), but who could forget Hate Whitey Day. See my response to RJ about the WaPo Fact Checker article on the same subject above.

And yes, I am aware of his votes against MLK Holiday. But let me ask, have you ever tried to understand his thinking behind the vote, or, for that matter, his comments that he would have opposed portions of the Civil Rights Act (you forgot that one)? I mean, the guy voted no on a lot of bills. Do you think, maybe, there might have been a principled or logical reasoning behind those votes? You know, other than just "fuck all the brown people?" Because if not, you are assuming you know what is in his heart (i.e., he's a racist pos) because he voted/would have voted in a way you find incompatible with your worldview.

I'm not saying you should agree with him, I'm saying calling him a racist pos without even trying to understand the thinking behind his votes/comments (and using them out of context to garner political support for your team) is fucking bush league.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

Buffalo Budd

I have absolutely nothing to add to this dialogue but I find it a pretty entertaining read, I have to say.
Everything is connected, because it's all being created by this one consciousness. And we are tiny reflections of the mind that is creating the universe.

mbw

Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 05:14:16 PM
Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 04:23:34 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 10:18:35 AM
Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 08:39:59 AM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 14, 2014, 01:06:02 AM
Quote from: rowjimmy on August 13, 2014, 06:22:25 PM
Quote from: runawayjimbo on August 13, 2014, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: mbw on August 13, 2014, 03:59:08 PM
meh, fuck that racist pos.  kurt would be sickened by him, so fuck that picture too.

DRINK

That's not a very funny retort.

Also, completely agree with mbw.

Well you don't go for my tl;dr comments, so I figured I'd stick to the snappy one liners like you guys.

Needless to say, I do not agree. But I get how it's totally easier to call someone with whom you don't agree a racist pos.

No, see, if I don't agree with his assertion that:

"Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began"

or

'Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for that pro-communist philanderer, Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day."

I can indeed call him a racist pos.

Got links or are you just making that up?


Am I to believe that you have never heard of the controversy of the Ron Paul Newsletter? 
That is about as believable that Ron Paul didn't write or approve the contents of The Ron Paul Newsletter published By Ron Paul and Associates of which Ron Paul was the president, duh, of which made him a bunch of money.

Do I really need to google that for you?

Do I need to google for you his voting record on making MLK Day a national holiday?  I can save you the time by letting you know he voted Nay, both times it was brought to vote.  I mean I can link you to it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't news to you.

Please let me know if you still require links.

Yeah, I skipped the second quote after I LOL'd at the first (which I didn't recognize), but who could forget Hate Whitey Day. See my response to RJ about the WaPo Fact Checker article on the same subject above.

And yes, I am aware of his votes against MLK Holiday. But let me ask, have you ever tried to understand his thinking behind the vote, or, for that matter, his comments that he would have opposed portions of the Civil Rights Act (you forgot that one)? I mean, the guy voted no on a lot of bills. Do you think, maybe, there might have been a principled or logical reasoning behind those votes? You know, other than just "fuck all the brown people?" Because if not, you are assuming you know what is in his heart (i.e., he's a racist pos) because he voted/would have voted in a way you find incompatible with your worldview.

I'm not saying you should agree with him, I'm saying calling him a racist pos without even trying to understand the thinking behind his votes/comments (and using them out of context to garner political support for your team) is fucking bush league.

I would love to read his rationale on voting against MLK day.  Got any links?  I'm sure it will be a hoot.
You really believe he did not know the contents of and/or author The Ron Paul Newsletter? There is a fabulous bridge for sale in nearby Brooklyn, might be a good investment for you.

runawayjimbo

Trimmed. That was getting ridiculous. And it's about to get worse.

Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 05:47:37 PM
I would love to read his rationale on voting against MLK day.  Got any links?  I'm sure it will be a hoot.

I can't seem to find any links; all that comes up is "Ron Paul is such a tremendous racist he voted against MLK Day." Weird. But I have heard him address it in the past and the line of thinking goes like this: MLK Day would have been a paid holiday for gov't employees and he didn't believe that was appropriate since King was never a gov't employee. He would have been ok with it if it were unpaid and has no problem with paid gov't holidays for president's day and whatnot, but it was different for MLK. Agree with his reasoning or not, but it's pretty clear (to me, at least) that this was simply about principle and not because he's a racist pos. Similar line of thinking (principled vs. pure evil) on the Civil Rights Act: he was in favor of abolishing Jim Crow, but he wouldn't have supported the law in whole because it would have violated the property and contract rights and privacy of millions of Americans. (Plenty of links on that one BTW) You want to say he's a misguided old fool for believing that, that's a different discussion. All I'm saying is I think you go too far by declaring him an unequivocal racist.

Quote from: mbw on August 14, 2014, 05:47:37 PM
You really believe he did not know the contents of and/or author The Ron Paul Newsletter? There is a fabulous bridge for sale in nearby Brooklyn, might be a good investment for you.

No, he knew the author:  Lew Rockwell (as your link mentions, it's been well "established" in libertarian circles this was the case for some time). Rockwell was at one point a senior advisor (maybe even campaign manager?) to Paul and he most certainly shaped his thinking with regard to economic policy. Rockwell's idea, developed with the godfather of anarcho-capitalism (an extreme branch of libertarianism to which I do not subscribe), Murray Rothbard, was to create fear and distrust of gov't and decided on this strategy of trying to stoke racial tensions to create unrest, hence the indescribably vile shit put forth in those newsletters. I don't think Rockwell has ever admitted this directly, but I think it's pretty universally accepted in the circles I run in. (FWIW, Paul's economic beliefs, as well as mine, were influenced by FA Hayek well more than Rothbard. Actually, Ron kinda created his own school combining the two. But now I'm really getting away from anything resembling a point.)

I do believe that Ron didn't know everything in the newsletters. Rockwell was his a friend and adviser and was a trusted piece of Ron's infrastructure. Also, FWIW, by almost all accounts I've read on him (not many), Rockwell himself is actually a very nice guy and people say they find it hard to believe that Rockwell believed the shit he wrote (although admittedly he is at least a candidate scumbag for even contemplating such a strategy).

So yes, I can believe Ron allowed Rockwell to publish under his name without reviewing what went out. But I also have no little doubt that he learned about it at some point and I do hold him responsible for (a) not putting a stop to it and/or (b) disclosing this was not his thinking but that, as I mentioned above, he felt any speech, even speech as hateful and deplorable as Rockwell's, is essential for a free society. But more than that, I think Ron's response of trying to deny/cover up/obfuscate once these newsletters came out years later was a terrible mistake and I wish he'd handled that differently (admittedly for somewhat personal reasons, because when your "movement's" standard bearer is labeled a racist, it discredits us all). I understand why he did it:  he didn't want to throw his friend under the bus. And I think there is something honorable in that (assuming Rockwell didn't actually harbor those beliefs but was instead playing a "character;" if there was any indication that Rockwell was/is a racist, he can pull a Neely). The situation clearly called for a much stronger repudiation of the extraordinary racism that was published under his name, and he did/could/would not do that. And he was unquestionably stupid and justifiably brought the racist pos label upon himself (unfounded as it may be, IMO).

One last thing, strip away all the politics and there is an undeniable fact:  the single biggest federal policy that does by FAR the most harm to minorities everywhere, particularly African Americans, is the War on Drugs. Ron Paul would have been the best executive vis-à-vis the Drug War since that ill-conceived and racist policy was implemented. I'm not even saying he would have single-handedly ended it, but his beliefs on the inherent inequity and social injustice would produce a far greater outcome than anything since our racist-ass Founders grew that shit on Mt. Vernon. Thankfully the rest of our elected officials appear to be catching up to him, albeit at an entirely unacceptable pace.

tl;dr

Now let me see that bridge you're talking about.
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mbw

wow, that's a whole lotta bullshit!
must get tiring defending this racist pos and his gun toting, woman-hating homophobe son.   :-D

runawayjimbo

Lulz

You really want to hate Ron Paul I'll have to tell you sometime about the monthly AR-15 giveaway they've been doing. Although you were the one who wanted to arm all the muthafuckas, so...
Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.

mbw


runawayjimbo

Quote from: DoW on October 26, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
I'm drunk but that was epuc

Quote from: mehead on June 22, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
The Line still sucks. Hard.

Quote from: Gumbo72203 on July 25, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
well boys, we fucked up by not being there.