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holy shit.........

Started by sophist, January 07, 2007, 01:06:37 PM

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sophist

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

QuoteRevealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
Uzi Mahnaimi, New York and Sarah Baxter, Washington
ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran's uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear "bunker-busters", according to several Israeli military sources.

The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb.

Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open "tunnels" into the targets. "Mini-nukes" would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.

"As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished," said one of the sources.

The plans, disclosed to The Sunday Times last week, have been prompted in part by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad's assessment that Iran is on the verge of producing enough enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons within two years.

Israeli military commanders believe conventional strikes may no longer be enough to annihilate increasingly well-defended enrichment facilities. Several have been built beneath at least 70ft of concrete and rock. However, the nuclear-tipped bunker-busters would be used only if a conventional attack was ruled out and if the United States declined to intervene, senior sources said.

Israeli and American officials have met several times to consider military action. Military analysts said the disclosure of the plans could be intended to put pressure on Tehran to halt enrichment, cajole America into action or soften up world opinion in advance of an Israeli attack.

Some analysts warned that Iranian retaliation for such a strike could range from disruption of oil supplies to the West to terrorist attacks against Jewish targets around the world.

Israel has identified three prime targets south of Tehran which are believed to be involved in Iran's nuclear programme:

# Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges are being installed for uranium enrichment

# A uranium conversion facility near Isfahan where, according to a statement by an Iranian vice-president last week, 250 tons of gas for the enrichment process have been stored in tunnels

# A heavy water reactor at Arak, which may in future produce enough plutonium for a bomb

Israeli officials believe that destroying all three sites would delay Iran's nuclear programme indefinitely and prevent them from having to live in fear of a "second Holocaust".

The Israeli government has warned repeatedly that it will never allow nuclear weapons to be made in Iran, whose president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has declared that "Israel must be wiped off the map".

Robert Gates, the new US defence secretary, has described military action against Iran as a "last resort", leading Israeli officials to conclude that it will be left to them to strike.

Israeli pilots have flown to Gibraltar in recent weeks to train for the 2,000-mile round trip to the Iranian targets. Three possible routes have been mapped out, including one over Turkey.

Air force squadrons based at Hatzerim in the Negev desert and Tel Nof, south of Tel Aviv, have trained to use Israel's tactical nuclear weapons on the mission. The preparations have been overseen by Major General Eliezer Shkedi, commander of the Israeli air force.

Sources close to the Pentagon said the United States was highly unlikely to give approval for tactical nuclear weapons to be used. One source said Israel would have to seek approval "after the event", as it did when it crippled Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak with airstrikes in 1981.

Scientists have calculated that although contamination from the bunker-busters could be limited, tons of radioactive uranium compounds would be released.

The Israelis believe that Iran's retaliation would be constrained by fear of a second strike if it were to launch its Shehab-3 ballistic missiles at Israel.

However, American experts warned of repercussions, including widespread protests that could destabilise parts of the Islamic world friendly to the West.

Colonel Sam Gardiner, a Pentagon adviser, said Iran could try to close the Strait of Hormuz, the route for 20% of the world's oil.

Some sources in Washington said they doubted if Israel would have the nerve to attack Iran. However, Dr Ephraim Sneh, the deputy Israeli defence minister, said last month: "The time is approaching when Israel and the international community will have to decide whether to take military action against Iran."

thoughts?
This scares the shit of me. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

guyforget

Thoughts?

Quote
holy shit.........
-AD_

susep

Considering the U.S. funds Israel and its world class Air Force we are definitely part of the strategic matrix that seeks to end the Iranians push to nuclearize. 
I'm not sure if Iran is open to diplomacy but then again we have to respect other nations autonomy but, not if they want to wipe out other nations off the map.
As Kissinger recently explained, if we do nothing and nations such as Iran who maintain a religious anti-west worldview continue to seek nuclear proliferation, we have to take control rather then "stand in the eyes of history".
Conversely I ask, are we doing our best diplomatically, economically, in understanding their worldview and taking the necessary steps towards achieving peace through non-military conventions?
What is it do they truly want? 

sophist

good questions susep.  I really disagree with the decision to nuke Iran.  Not to stir up the ole right wing talking points, but this could be the start of WW III.  I hope not, I want peace in the middle east more than anything.   
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

danje

It's a shame it might have to come down to force, but if it hasn't or won't work out diplomatically, I would much rather have Israel take care of that problem than we. Can you imagine what your reaction would have been to this article had the headline read, "US plans nuclear strike on Iran"


sophist

I couldn't imagine that, our country is much more politically divided than Israel.  I think they (government officials and citizens) have a general consensus that Iran is a threat, while we have mixed views on who the real threat is in the middle east.  I'm not against the use of force, I just find that Israel's first "line of defense" to be a bit extreme. 
Can we talk about the Dead?  I'd love to talk about the fucking Grateful Dead, for once, can we please discuss the Grateful FUCKING Dead!?!?!?!

rowjimmy

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that this comes on the tails of several public, 'accidental' disclosures of the existence of the heretofore- officially- unconfirmed-but long-believed-to-be-real-and-potent nuclear arsenal.

Let me restate that, several times in the past month, including the confirmation hearings for Robert Gates, it has been inadvertently  disclosed that Israel had nukes but Israel has always been tight-lipped. One of the reasons that Israel has been mum was so as not to provoke the likes of Israel, while still keeping them at bay with an unspoken threat.

Now, what does it all mean? Israel is no longer interested in standing down. They are ready to get their cackles up and scrap. THAT is bad. bad for Iran, Bad for the US, bad for Israel, Bad for your children, their children and mine.

I gotta go, I've gotta order some concrete, gas masks, duct tape, and canned goods...

susep

#7
let me guess that this weeks troop build-up announcement for 30K more U.S. troops in Iraq conveniently coincides w/ this recent Israeli development?

the pressure that this situation creates on Tehran is explosive.  The Iranians will fuel off these devolopments, further enticing us and Israel into action.

what concerns me, among many things, is how other nations like China, Russia, N. Korea et al react to nuclear forces.  How do we know that other countries aren't conspiring against us in a kind of secret agreement w/ reasoning "enough is enough"?

can we cover all of these bases?

a worst-case scenario would be a chain reaction but, we continue to test Einsteins challenge living in the nuclear age.
 

rowjimmy

#8
Has anyone seen this in any other news outlets?
I've only just begun searching but the Washington Post, NYT & CNN are not covering this report at all. Some would say that it's a matter of repression of the story but, I wonder if, maybe, the story lacks confirmation...


UPDATE: Here's the Google News listing on that topic:
http://news.google.com/?ned=us&ncl=1112494011&hl=en&scoring=d


Edit to add this:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/201622,CST-NWS-israel08.article
''It is possible that this was a leak done on purpose, as deterrence, to say: 'Someone better hold us back, before we do something crazy.''
Seems plausible to me.

guyforget

-AD_

susep

Quote from: rowjimmy on January 08, 2007, 08:31:57 AM
''It is possible that this was a leak done on purpose, as deterrence, to say: 'Someone better hold us back, before we do something crazy.''
Seems plausible to me.

either way Iran is in trouble.

rowjimmy

As are we all.

Not that that is much of a change...