Healthcare Content (Protest Instructions) >>>>>

[antelope19]

you contradict yourself.  first you say:

One would think that our government would take pride in implementing what could have been one of the greatest advancements in our history.

and they you say, why should our government take pride in it?!

If one party doesn't like it, or believe in it, why should they help? Just because you believe that this is the correct course of action, it doesn't make it so. This is their job. Would you help another company with their bid to get a job?

your last sentence there is very telling of the problem, and your comparisons to companies.  ours is, or at least was set up to be, "of, by and for the people."  The first words of the constitution are "We the People".  All opposition to health care reform boils down to one thing, of course, corporate profits, not the welfare of our citizens.  All that these insurance companies who are cancelling policies and jacking up rates are doing is exposing their evil even more, and it baffles me where some people choose to lay blame. All corporate money needs to be out of our government.

I think we mis-understood each other.  I thought you were blaming the idiot republicans who are throwing up roadblocks as often as possible.  I was saying that they're allowed to oppose the idea of healthcare reform.  I may not agree with how they went about it though.
 

Pretty awesome of Obama to admit that mistakes have been made in the implementation.

Stand up and admit that you aren't perfect.

That's how you lead. Why, I remember another former president who started a war that killed over a hundred thousand civilians and after the WMDs proof were disproven, he landed on an aircraft carrier near the war zone, boldly strode to the mic and apologized to the world with the words, "Mission Accomplished."

Wait.

So Obama tries to help Americans with what can only be a flawed system because he had to fight tooth and nail and compromise over ever paragraph and when a WEBSITE doesn't run smoothly he mans up and apologizes and he's still the worst guy ever but GWB isn't on trial for fucking war crimes?

This nation's sense of scale is fucked.

Why does it always go back to Bush?  That man was a terrible president.....He'll ultimately go down as one of the worst in our history.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that our current administration underestimated what it was going to take to implement this new healthcare coverage.  Yes, it is impressive that he came out and apologized and admitted his mistakes.  I'll admit I let my frustrations get the best of me last night.  I guess I am left wondering why roll out a rush job?  So many of the states have opposed the exchanges.  Why not take some extra time to get more people on board and do it right?  This could have been a homerun and he could have been a hero.  Instead, this is a going to be a struggle with no end in sight. 

[runawayjimbo]

And one would think that, too bad there are so many politicians, well, a whole political party and its various minions, bought and paid for by mega corporations with a lot of $$ to lose, who want nothing more than for this to fail and nut their pants with every issue which arises, and have zero desire to help make it work.  That is indeed very sad.

You're deluding yourself if you think only one political party is beholden to "mega corporations." The ACA is a giveaway to health insurers, pharma, and device manufacturers (who will eventually get their way and repeal the taxes levied on them in the ACA).

All opposition to health care reform boils down to one thing, of course, corporate profits, not the welfare of our citizens.  All that these insurance companies who are cancelling policies and jacking up rates are doing is exposing their evil even more, and it baffles me where some people choose to lay blame. All corporate money needs to be out of our government.

Maybe you're just playing the obtuse card like KYJ likes to do, but surely you know that opposition to the law has a lot more to do than corporate profits. The law has never been more popular than less (never even broke 45%). People have never trusted the gov't to be able to do such a massive and complex overhaul of 15% of the country's economy. People feared there would be unintended consequences which were not understood and would be far more costly than imagined. People don't like being told they have to purchase a contract from a private company. There are literally 100s of reasons why people opposed the ACA, none of which having the least to do with corporate profits.

The bit about how it's the insurer's fault is rich, too.

Pretty awesome of Obama to admit that mistakes have been made in the implementation.

Stand up and admit that you aren't perfect.

But not until you are caught. And then stall and obfuscate and revise prior statements until you absolutely can't anymore.

ETA: he wasn't admitting that mistakes had been made in implementation, he was apologizing for lying - repeatedly - for 3 years about his famed "if you like your plan you can keep your plan. Period." line. What it morphed into during the course of the interview, however, is probably something completely different.

That's how you lead. Why, I remember another former president who started a war that killed over a hundred thousand civilians and after the WMDs proof were disproven, he landed on an aircraft carrier near the war zone, boldly strode to the mic and apologized to the world with the words, "Mission Accomplished."

Wait.

So Obama tries to help Americans with what can only be a flawed system because he had to fight tooth and nail and compromise over ever paragraph and when a WEBSITE doesn't run smoothly he mans up and apologizes and he's still the worst guy ever but GWB isn't on trial for fucking war crimes?

This nation's sense of scale is fucked.

Pretty sure I remember GWB being excoriated for the Mission Accomplished, even to this day. And rightly so.

Why does it always go back to Bush?  That man was a terrible president.....He'll ultimately go down as one of the worst in our history.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that our current administration underestimated what it was going to take to implement this new healthcare coverage.  Yes, it is impressive that he came out and apologized and admitted his mistakes.  I'll admit I let my frustrations get the best of me last night.  I guess I am left wondering why roll out a rush job?  So many of the states have opposed the exchanges.  Why not take some extra time to get more people on board and do it right?  This could have been a homerun and he could have been a hero.  Instead, this is a going to be a struggle with no end in sight. 

They didn't underestimate it: they deliberatly slowed development of the website and critical regulations because they were scared the big bully Repoublicans were going to use it against them in the 2012 election. And now they are paying the consequences of that inaction. And rightly so.

I agree with you it should have been delayed. THAT would have been leadership. Apologizing for fucking it up and promising to fix it is, at best, incompetnece. It's like Andy Reid saying "I gotta do a better job there" after he passes 80% of the time for the 600th straight game. Fucking Andy Reid.

[rowjimmy]

It goes back to Bush because the same assholes who are all melty over a WEBSITE gave that guy a free pass on the slaughter of over a hundred thousand people.


Let me be clear:

THE SLAUGHTER OF OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE

[nab]

Really?  The Tea Party caucus are the same people as Bush? 


Bush is the poster boy for big government conservatives among the small government conservatives.   

[runawayjimbo]

It goes back to Bush because the same assholes who are all melty over a WEBSITE gave that guy a free pass on the slaughter of over a hundred thousand people.

Of course, you know it's about much more than just a WEBSITE. The website is merely the embodiment of an unpopular and poorly designed law.

Then again, I'm all melty about "the website" AND I think Bush is an asshole for the slaughter of over a hundred thousand people. Then again, I also think a Nobel Peace prize winner shouldn't say things like "I'm pretty good at killing people," even if it's in jest. But hey, that's just me.

[aphineday]

Really?  The Tea Party caucus are the same people as Bush? 


Bush is the poster boy for big government conservatives among the small government conservatives.   

First let me say that I agree with RJ 100% here. You have to remember that the Tea Party was not even really around during the Bush II years. There were some people maybe trending that way, but they weren't even a real movement until 2009. The overwhelming majority of Tea Partiers did vote for Bush, because they were just thought of as conservatives prior to the movement. So in a way, yeah they are the same people as Bush.

On a second note, I read an article the other day talking about Bush now that he's no longer president. Other than his new love for painting, they basically said he spends time with his dad privately worrying that the Tea Party is going to ruin his party... He's very much correct.

[runawayjimbo]

First let me say that I agree with RJ 100% here. You have to remember that the Tea Party was not even really around during the Bush II years. There were some people maybe trending that way, but they weren't even a real movement until 2009. The overwhelming majority of Tea Partiers did vote for Bush, because they were just thought of as conservatives prior to the movement. So in a way, yeah they are the same people as Bush.

That's true. Hey, what was the catalyst that spawned the Tea Party? Probably something about corporate profits.

[rowjimmy]

Pretty sure the Tea Party is an astroturfed "movement" spurred by conservatives and bigots trying to make sure their oil dollars and religious nutbag ideals are in control.

[PIE-GUY]

Pretty sure the Tea Party is an astroturfed "movement" spurred funded by billionaire conservatives and bigots trying to make sure their oil dollars and religious nutbag ideals are in control.

Fyp.

[runawayjimbo]

Pretty sure the Tea Party is an astroturfed "movement" spurred by conservatives and bigots trying to make sure their oil dollars and religious nutbag ideals are in control.

George Soros says LOL

[rowjimmy]

Pretty sure the Tea Party is an astroturfed "movement" spurred by conservatives and bigots trying to make sure their oil dollars and religious nutbag ideals are in control.

George Soros says LOL

Truth can be funny.

[aphineday]

Pretty sure the Tea Party is an astroturfed "movement" spurred by conservatives and bigots trying to make sure their oil dollars and religious nutbag ideals are in control.

George Soros says LOL

Truth can be funny.

Exactly.
Tea Party, LOL.

[nab]

Dirty money at the top of the political world is a problem that no one but the beneficiaries of the practice supports. 

Its as pervasive and as old a problem as the imbalance between number of idea people and the number of apologists on either side of the political spectrum.   

[sls.stormyrider]

Funny, I'm having the complete opposite experience. I'll be paying more for worse coverage. That wasn't even what I was referring to though. This roll out is embarrassing. One would think that our government would take pride in implementing what could have been one of the greatest advancements in our history. Instead, it's a mess and we're once again a laughing stock in the international community.

I contend that this issue is largely independent of ACA. For years, there hasn't been enough money. Reimbursement to docs and hospitals is going up less than inflation or going down (for the same procedure), but utilization has been going up. Drug prices are going up, and technology prices are going up. The cost of doing business is going up (I suspect the medical software industry is doing quite well, despite the fact that the products suck). Insurance premiums have been going up for years despite trying to find ways to reduce costs.

and yes, the rollout was well beyond a disaster. I respect BO for apologizing (sort of) but he should have never let this happen. A total fuck up beyond fuck ups

[kellerb]

We need old people to start dying quickly, and STAT.