Occupy Wall Street

[phil]

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

DC doesn't have problems with two parks being occupied.

/just sayin'

Charlottesville is auto-renewing the protest permits at the park here to make it easier on them. This is the first time cville has ever auto-renewed a permit.

The occupy charlottesville folks have, however, shifted their focus from economics to defending themselves from the all-out assault on them by the local hobos.

[runawayjimbo]

Forgive me for jumping in mid thread but....

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

When exactly were their voices heard?

In the 60 days they've been camping out in a park which prohibits parking. Although I understand how you would have missed it since the message is so confused it's hard to hear anything coming out of it. Kinda like when Trey does his "This is what it sounds like when you guys scream stuff" bit.

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

DC doesn't have problems with two parks being occupied.

/just sayin'

Coincidentally, I think the ire of the protestors should be focused on DC more than Wall St.

Aren't the protestors now walking to DC?               

I'm not sure if this is a joke or if they are truly marching to DC. Either way, my point was that on my list of culpability for the financial crisis, gov't is the worst offender.

[qop24]

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

DC doesn't have problems with two parks being occupied.

/just sayin'

Charlottesville is auto-renewing the protest permits at the park here to make it easier on them. This is the first time cville has ever auto-renewed a permit.

The occupy charlottesville folks have, however, shifted their focus from economics to defending themselves from the all-out assault on them by the local hobos.

Sad...but true.

[phuzzyfish12]

Forgive me for jumping in mid thread but....

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

When exactly were their voices heard?

In the 60 days they've been camping out in a park which prohibits parking. Although I understand how you would have missed it since the message is so confused it's hard to hear anything coming out of it. Kinda like when Trey does his "This is what it sounds like when you guys scream stuff" bit.

Maybe you missed my point...who exactly heard what they are saying? demanding? Did the people they are trying to reach on Wall St, Govt, etc have some sort of secret meeting with OWS that we don't know about? Did anyone ever sit down with them, government officials, business owners, etc and listen to their list of demands and even consider what they are asking for? The answer is NO, if someone had taken the time to listen to them they wouldn't still be camped there, there wouldn't be a list of demands...Occupy movements would not be starting all over the nation.

You sound like Bloomberg.

Next you'll be suggesting they buy suits and lobbyists.

Well I am a billionaire.

Why has every other mayor of a major city echoed his comments? Cities have gone above and beyond letting the protestors have their say. They have suspended rules and allowed the protestors' voices to be heard. But despite that it has devolved into people resisting for no better reason than they don't want the Man telling them what to do.

There is a process to affect change. You can still organize and march and protest within the confines of the law without the occupation. But insisting that this is the only way is setting the movement up for failure.

DC doesn't have problems with two parks being occupied.

/just sayin'

Coincidentally, I think the ire of the protestors should be focused on DC more than Wall St.

Aren't the protestors now walking to DC?               

I'm not sure if this is a joke or if they are truly marching to DC. Either way, my point was that on my list of culpability for the financial crisis, gov't is the worst offender.

This most certainly is not a joke, I assumed someone so up to date on world matters would have known about this....

http://occupywallst.org/article/occupy-highway-99-march-washington/
Our route is as follows:
11/9/11: Liberty Square to Elizabeth, NJ
11/10/11: Elizabeth, NJ to New Brunswick, NJ
11/11/11: New Brunswick, NJ to Trenton, NJ
11/12/11: Trenton, NJ to Andalusia, PA
11/13/11: Andalusia, PA to Occupy Philly
11/14/11: DAY OFF AT OCCUPY PHILLY
11/15/11: Occupy Philly to Wilmington, DE
11/16/11: Wilmington, DE to Newark, DE
11/17/11: Newark, DE to Rising Sun, MD
11/18/11: Rising Sun, MD to Bel Air, MD
11/19/11: Bel Air, MD to Occupy Baltimore
11/20/11: DAY OFF AT OCCUPY BALTIMORE
11/21/11: Occupy Baltimore to Laurel, MD
11/22/11: Laurel, MD to Occupy DC
11/23/11: Occupy DC to The White House for Super Committee meeting

[Hicks]

lolz, sweet pwnage fuzzy.

[runawayjimbo]

Maybe you missed my point...who exactly heard what they are saying? demanding? Did the people they are trying to reach on Wall St, Govt, etc have some sort of secret meeting with OWS that we don't know about? Did anyone ever sit down with them, government officials, business owners, etc and listen to their list of demands and even consider what they are asking for? The answer is NO, if someone had taken the time to listen to them they wouldn't still be camped there, there wouldn't be a list of demands...Occupy movements would not be starting all over the nation.

Is that what you are expecting? For "Wall St" & gov't officials to have a high profile meeting with the protesters to work out an amicable solution? Where would this meeting take place? Since this is a "leaderless movement", who would participate in the meeting? If that's what you/they are expecting, it's going to be a loooong occupation.

The problem is this is not a serious movement. There are no serious demands. Free health care and education for all? Forgiveness of all student loan debt? Down with capitalism? These aren't solutions, even to the problems they claim to represent.

Movements are starting all over the country because people are scared, and rightfully so. They see a jobless recovery. They see bitter partisan bickering. They see the militarization of the police force. But it's not because the movement hasn't been given a chance to develop and grow into something meaningful.

This most certainly is not a joke, I assumed someone so up to date on world matters would have known about this....

http://occupywallst.org/article/occupy-highway-99-march-washington/
Our route is as follows:
11/9/11: Liberty Square to Elizabeth, NJ
11/10/11: Elizabeth, NJ to New Brunswick, NJ
11/11/11: New Brunswick, NJ to Trenton, NJ
11/12/11: Trenton, NJ to Andalusia, PA
11/13/11: Andalusia, PA to Occupy Philly
11/14/11: DAY OFF AT OCCUPY PHILLY
11/15/11: Occupy Philly to Wilmington, DE
11/16/11: Wilmington, DE to Newark, DE
11/17/11: Newark, DE to Rising Sun, MD
11/18/11: Rising Sun, MD to Bel Air, MD
11/19/11: Bel Air, MD to Occupy Baltimore
11/20/11: DAY OFF AT OCCUPY BALTIMORE
11/21/11: Occupy Baltimore to Laurel, MD
11/22/11: Laurel, MD to Occupy DC
11/23/11: Occupy DC to The White House for Super Committee meeting

You're right, it's hard to believe I missed the 24 people marching to Washington or the blog post about it on the OWS website. I can't believe I missed that parade on the highway on my way into work the other day.  :roll:

I'm not sure why you feel the need to make a condescending personal comment though. I'll restrain from playing that game, I'd rather have a serious discussion.

[rowjimmy]

No. You'd rather parrot your talking points.

[runawayjimbo]

No. You'd rather parrot your talking points.

LOL. Dude, every article you reference comes from HuffPo or Mother Jones and you're claiming I rely on talking points? You make wildly speculative comments that are completely detached from reality. I'd love to hear you articulate and defend an original thought, but I know how much you love brevity.

But, if you want to have a discussion about the merits of the occupation and what the protests should be aiming for and how to go about it, this conversation would take a sharp turn for the better.

[runawayjimbo]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/15/us/new-york-occupy-eviction/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

New York court upholds eviction of "Occupy" protesters

New York (CNN) -- A New York Supreme Court has ruled not to extend a temporary restraining order that prevented the eviction of "Occupy" protesters who were encamped at Zuccotti Park, considered a home-base for demonstrators.

Police in riot gear cleared out the protesters early Tuesday morning, a move that attorneys for the loosely defined group say was unlawful.

But Justice Michael Stallman later ruled in favor of New York city officials and Brookfield properties, owners and developers of the privately-owned park in Lower Manhattan.

The order does not prevent protesters from gathering in the park, but says their First Amendment rights not do include remaining there, "along with their tents, structures, generators, and other installations to the exclusion of the owner's reasonable rights and duties to maintain Zuccotti Park."

Earlier Tuesday, at least two people were seen jumping over a metal barricade before they were forcibly removed by authorities.

Video of the park showed security officers picking up one protester and tossing the individual over the fence.

"The mayor, the police have been itching to do this for weeks," said Bill Dobbs, a spokesman for the loosely defined group. "We're here to raise an outcry about economic conditions and not get into confrontations with police."

Hundreds of police and private security guards filled the park and the surrounding area Tuesday, as demonstrators circled their former home base.

City officials, meanwhile, said they had intended to allow protests to resume at the park, but added they would not allow demonstrators to set up tents or camp. The park would remain closed until officials sort out the legal situation, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said earlier Tuesday.

"We have an obligation to enforce the laws today, to make sure that everybody has access to the park so everybody can protest. That's the First Amendment and it's number one on our minds," he said. "We also have a similar, just as important obligation to protect the health and safety of the people in the park."

...

[rowjimmy]

No. You'd rather parrot your talking points.

LOL. Dude, every article you reference comes from HuffPo or Mother Jones and you're claiming I rely on talking points? You make wildly speculative comments that are completely detached from reality. I'd love to hear you articulate and defend an original thought, but I know how much you love brevity.

But, if you want to have a discussion about the merits of the occupation and what the protests should be aiming for and how to go about it, this conversation would take a sharp turn for the better.

Debating with you is less fruitful than talking to a wall.

[rowjimmy]

ANYWAY

OccupyDC took over the DC headquarters of Brookfield Properties (owners of Zucotti Park) tonight.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/occupy-dc-marches-in-support-of-occupy-wall-street.php


In other news, evictions were coordinated:
http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-minneapolis/were-occupy-crackdowns-aided-by-federal-law-enforcement-agencies

[shoreline99]

Here's a couple of links liveblogging the events in NYC today.

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/17/occupy_wall_street_tries_to_march_o.php

http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/Showdown_at_Zuccotti_Park_The_NYPDs_raid_on_Occupy_Wall_Street_NYC

Personally, I agree with this woman about their tactics, who commented:

"If you want wealth equality and income redistribution you might as well live in a communist country," she said, "I'm part of the 99% and I don't mind it."

Furthermore, she said, the groups tactics - specifically, not working and 'occupying' parts of New York City - are not productive.

"My boss, I'm pretty sure he didn't get where he is, work his way up the ladder, by protesting and going camping for two months," she quipped.

:justsayin:

[runawayjimbo]

Thanks for the links, shoreline. I was looking for somewhere to get some live updates. It's just too bad that woman you quoted doesn't understand that they're doing it for her.

Update 9:38 a.m.: Shortly after 9 a.m., there was jubilant cheering from protesters under the impression that the NYSE opening bell had been delayed. But the bell is rung daily at 9:30 a.m., and that just happened, as usual.

Lulz

[nab]

My confusion around the Occupy protests centers on just what "fair" means.  I agree with the general sentiment of the movement, that wealth disparity is growing in the country and that disparirty has been enabled by Washington, greed, and a complacent society. I agree  that certainly feels unfair.  As a serious student of history, I am cautious of arguments based on historical data given that most people who present those arguments are unaware of the how to frame those statistics in a historically responsable way. 

I am afraid that ultimately, any number concocted to remedy that situation, weither by regulation or taxation, is really just a shot in the dark, one based on sentiment and feeling rather than rationality.  If the movement is going to gain my support I'm gonna need a little more than slogans and general anti-capitialist rhetoric.  I need a sound plan that makes a rational argument for change and I need to know that the Occupy groups espouse those arguements, at least generally.  Without central, rationally constructed arguements, its hard for me not to view the Occupy movement as little more than a left leaning party enamored with 60's style demonstration. 

It's still pretty early in the movement, I'm holding out final judgement until things mature a little bit. 

[VDB]

Update 9:38 a.m.: Shortly after 9 a.m., there was jubilant cheering from protesters under the impression that the NYSE opening bell had been delayed. But the bell is rung daily at 9:30 a.m., and that just happened, as usual.

That's pretty funny right there.