2012 Election Thread

[rowjimmy]

How is it hyperbole: Obama has overseen over 200 raids on state approved dispensaries, more than Bush's entire 8 years.

That fucking headline alone is hyperbole. It's not as if this

is what happens every time there is a raid.

That's Oversight.

When the White House leans on the Justice department to prosecute or not prosecute certain types of crimes people cry out that Justice needs to be independent. But when the JD does something that people don't like, that blame the White House. Both sides of the aisle do it and it's a bullshit double standard.

[sls.stormyrider]

on a related note - just got the ballot choices in the mail, and among them are to allow medical mj in MA

I'm not personally affected one way or the other, but, honestly, it makes more sense to just legalize it.

[runawayjimbo]

Honestly with all of the problems in our society and fucked economic system, medical marijuana enforcement just isn't that important to me.  

It's not like it isn't readily available for people who need it in any of the states where it's legal.

I understand that the people who run these dispensaries are getting royally screwed and that sucks, but they should have been aware they were taking some measure of risk by engaging in behavior that is prohibited by Federal law.

I hear you. Look, I think medical marijuana is a farce. I don't doubt that it helps people and I wouldn't want to be the one denying people who are suffering something that helps them. But of course medical marijuana is just a bridge to get to the point where we can make the personal decision of whether or not you want to use marijuana recreationally like you can with alcohol or tobacco.
 
So it's not that I'm bothered by the dichotomy between state and federal laws vis a vis marijuana. It's that (a) Obama broke one of the most tangible promises he made in the campaign and (b) the immoral War on Drugs continues to ruin people's lives on a daily basis. We lecture the world about human rights abuses while we throw people in a cage for an individual choice that is supposed to be guaranteed and that we allow them to make for more drugs that are more dangerous to both the individual and the public at large. And that's a goddamned shame.

How is it hyperbole: Obama has overseen over 200 raids on state approved dispensaries, more than Bush's entire 8 years.

That fucking headline alone is hyperbole. It's not as if this

is what happens every time there is a raid.

That's Oversight.

When the White House leans on the Justice department to prosecute or not prosecute certain types of crimes people cry out that Justice needs to be independent. But when the JD does something that people don't like, that blame the White House. Both sides of the aisle do it and it's a bullshit double standard.

I think it was pretty obvious when I said "Obama" I meant the administration. You're right, Obama isn't exclusively to blame for this tragedy any more than Clinton should get credit for a budget surplus (allegedly). But if you don't believe the chief executive of the branch of gov't charged with enforcing the law has authority over enforcement priorities, then what does he have?
 
So in case it's not clear, I don't lay all of the blame on Obama. However, all the officials in his administration are appointed by him, so the only redress I have to right what I perceive to be a tremedmous wrong would be to vote him out if I believed the opposing candidate to be better (which of course I don't).

[rowjimmy]

Way to skip over the real point of my post in my last paragraph.

[runawayjimbo]

Way to skip over the real point of my post in my last paragraph.

What point, that there is a double standard in politics? What do you want, a Pulitzer?

Although I thought I did address it (perhaps indirectly) by pointing out the equally obvious point that there is no recourse over JoD officials except to vote for or against the president who, for better or worse, has influence over his appointees.

[rowjimmy]

The point is that you are flogging the wrong side of that standard.

The Justice Department is supposed to enforce the laws of the land.

That's it.

If the White House doesn't like that their job is to CHANGE THE LAWS.
Same goes for Congress.

[Hicks]

The point is that you are flogging the wrong side of that standard.

The Justice Department is supposed to enforce the laws of the land.

That's it.

If the White House doesn't like that their job is to CHANGE THE LAWS.
Same goes for Congress.

Exactly and considering that Obama can't even get routine appointments approved by the assholes in Congress then I don't see how a conversation of ending the drug war can even be contemplated at this point.    Which of course is fucktarded.

[runawayjimbo]

The point is that you are flogging the wrong side of that standard.

The Justice Department is supposed to enforce the laws of the land.

That's it.

If the White House doesn't like that their job is to CHANGE THE LAWS.
Same goes for Congress.

DOMA says no

[sls.stormyrider]

From what I undertand about DOMA, the only recourse the feds would have would be to deny social security payments or medicare benificiary payments. It doesn't make same sex marriage illegal, but does say that a state isn't required to recognize a same sex marriage, even if it was performed legally in another state. It does not call for prosecution of officials or participants.

so - the only way DOMA would apply here is if people have filed, and received, federal benefits as part of same sex marriage. Otherwise, no federal law has been broken

the Supreme court will be asked to weigh in soon, I suspect.

anyway - the medical mj and DOMA situations are clearly different

[runawayjimbo]

anyway - the medical mj and DOMA situations are clearly different

I agree they are quite different: in one case, the administration decided not to enforce a law to appease a key constituency; in the other, they had no choice but to enforce a law the chief executive once opposed (allegedly) because who cares about stoner pothead drug addicts anyway.

[sls.stormyrider]

has it really not been enforced?  again - the only thing to enforce with DOMA is gay spouses not getting federal benefits. It has nothing to do with disallowing marriage. have there been reports of gay spouses getting benefits? I honestly don't know, but that is what the law is all about.
I suspect it is being enforced because there are some court challenges - just supicion

[VDB]

This is just me stating what I thought I heard and not looking it up... but I thought the issue with DOMA was the administration decided not to defend it in court, as opposed to not enforce it, like sls says with respect to benefits.

Could be wrong... please correct if so...

[runawayjimbo]

C'mon, guys, I don't get bogged down in the details; I'm a big picture guy. And to me, it seems like the administration clearly has (or at least has not been afraid to use) the ability to influence laws based on its interpretation of them. Whether or not that's constitutional or not, fuck if I know. But so ultimately he is responsible for the direction the DEA takes. And if it's true that he's just being cockblocked by over zealous drug warriors, he is free to appoint a new director who shares his supposedly more tolerant, humane, moral views. But he hasn't done that, which is itself a failure to me.

YMMV

VDB, yes, that is the justification, that the law is being enforced, just not defended in court. Which is not at all a contradiction.

[rowjimmy]

For a guy who doesn't "get bogged down with details" you sure try waste a lot of our time with epic posts around here.

[runawayjimbo]

For a guy who doesn't "get bogged down with details" you sure try waste a lot of our time with epic posts around here.

Awww, you think my posts are epic? Thanks, man.