The Political Pot Thread

[Mr. Natural]

Wait - are you saying medical marijuana patients are not allowed to own firearms or ammunition?

Si.
Bureau of ATF memo - http://www.atf.gov/files/press/releases/2011/09/092611-atf-open-letter-to-all-ffls-marijuana-for-medicinal-purposes.pdf
Although, while looking for a link, I found this article in GUNS & AMMO - http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/01/20/medical-marijuana-patients-retain-2nd-amendment-rights/

[Hicks]

Interesting point about the gun charges. Since it is illegal for dispensaries & patients to own/possess firearms & ammunition; and they are denied banking, credit card, and armored car service, they are forced to handle & transport large amounts of cash without any protection.
This puts them in a very dangerous position. :shakehead:

Uh, just like any other retail store?

You think they have guns down at the Apple Store?

And as for how it plays out, here in Oregon legalization proponents are already mobilizing to move forward with their efforts based on this announcement. 

Barring some drastic reverse of course, legalization is here to stay and will be spreading across the West within the next few years. 

[Mr. Natural]

Interesting point about the gun charges. Since it is illegal for dispensaries & patients to own/possess firearms & ammunition; and they are denied banking, credit card, and armored car service, they are forced to handle & transport large amounts of cash without any protection.
This puts them in a very dangerous position. :shakehead:

Uh, just like any other retail store?

You think they have guns down at the Apple Store?
And as for how it plays out, here in Oregon legalization proponents are already mobilizing to move forward with their efforts based on this announcement. 

Barring some drastic reverse of course, legalization is here to stay and will be spreading across the West within the next few years.

The argument I'm making is that Apple doesn't have to rely solely on cash transactions since their customers can (and most often do) use credit/debit cards. Apple is allowed bank and credit union accounts, which dispensaries are not, to manage property leases, payroll, utilities, etc. Hence, dispensaries wind up handling a shit-ton of ca$hmoney. Add to that, they can't transport any of that cash (like Apple can) via armored vehicles. Hence they are forced to regularly have large amounts of cash on their persons and in their business locations, which makes them ripe for robbery. Firearm possession, I was postulating, seemed to be their last line of defense. As of now, they're sitting ducks.

[Mr. Natural]

This just in - "The Department of Justice will permit banks to work with marijuana dealers"   http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/doj-weed-pot-cory-booker-wild-fire/521528eb78c90a0ea7000356

[Hicks]

Interesting point about the gun charges. Since it is illegal for dispensaries & patients to own/possess firearms & ammunition; and they are denied banking, credit card, and armored car service, they are forced to handle & transport large amounts of cash without any protection.
This puts them in a very dangerous position. :shakehead:

Uh, just like any other retail store?

You think they have guns down at the Apple Store?
And as for how it plays out, here in Oregon legalization proponents are already mobilizing to move forward with their efforts based on this announcement. 

Barring some drastic reverse of course, legalization is here to stay and will be spreading across the West within the next few years.

The argument I'm making is that Apple doesn't have to rely solely on cash transactions since their customers can (and most often do) use credit/debit cards. Apple is allowed bank and credit union accounts, which dispensaries are not, to manage property leases, payroll, utilities, etc. Hence, dispensaries wind up handling a shit-ton of ca$hmoney. Add to that, they can't transport any of that cash (like Apple can) via armored vehicles. Hence they are forced to regularly have large amounts of cash on their persons and in their business locations, which makes them ripe for robbery. Firearm possession, I was postulating, seemed to be their last line of defense. As of now, they're sitting ducks.

Wow you can't buy your weed with a credit or debit card at a dispensary?

That's just un-American. 

[Mr. Natural]

Interesting point about the gun charges. Since it is illegal for dispensaries & patients to own/possess firearms & ammunition; and they are denied banking, credit card, and armored car service, they are forced to handle & transport large amounts of cash without any protection.
This puts them in a very dangerous position. :shakehead:

Uh, just like any other retail store?

You think they have guns down at the Apple Store?
And as for how it plays out, here in Oregon legalization proponents are already mobilizing to move forward with their efforts based on this announcement. 

Barring some drastic reverse of course, legalization is here to stay and will be spreading across the West within the next few years.

The argument I'm making is that Apple doesn't have to rely solely on cash transactions since their customers can (and most often do) use credit/debit cards. Apple is allowed bank and credit union accounts, which dispensaries are not, to manage property leases, payroll, utilities, etc. Hence, dispensaries wind up handling a shit-ton of ca$hmoney. Add to that, they can't transport any of that cash (like Apple can) via armored vehicles. Hence they are forced to regularly have large amounts of cash on their persons and in their business locations, which makes them ripe for robbery. Firearm possession, I was postulating, seemed to be their last line of defense. As of now, they're sitting ducks.

Wow you can't buy your weed with a credit or debit card at a dispensary?

That's just un-American.

I Stand Corrected -  Talking to a friend from California last night, he said that some dispensaries can do debit. With all these laws in flux, what I read is often different from how it's playing out 'on the ground.'

[kellerb]

Interesting point about the gun charges. Since it is illegal for dispensaries & patients to own/possess firearms & ammunition; and they are denied banking, credit card, and armored car service, they are forced to handle & transport large amounts of cash without any protection.
This puts them in a very dangerous position. :shakehead:

Uh, just like any other retail store?

You think they have guns down at the Apple Store?
And as for how it plays out, here in Oregon legalization proponents are already mobilizing to move forward with their efforts based on this announcement. 

Barring some drastic reverse of course, legalization is here to stay and will be spreading across the West within the next few years.

The argument I'm making is that Apple doesn't have to rely solely on cash transactions since their customers can (and most often do) use credit/debit cards. Apple is allowed bank and credit union accounts, which dispensaries are not, to manage property leases, payroll, utilities, etc. Hence, dispensaries wind up handling a shit-ton of ca$hmoney. Add to that, they can't transport any of that cash (like Apple can) via armored vehicles. Hence they are forced to regularly have large amounts of cash on their persons and in their business locations, which makes them ripe for robbery. Firearm possession, I was postulating, seemed to be their last line of defense. As of now, they're sitting ducks.

Wow you can't buy your weed with a credit or debit card at a dispensary?

That's just un-American.

I Stand Corrected -  Talking to a friend from California last night, he said that some dispensaries can do debit. With all these laws in flux, what I read is often different from how it's playing out 'on the ground.'

It's probably like the titty-bars where the ATM receipt says "Gary's Autoshop"

[emay]

Webcasted some of the Senate meeting on the views of federal legalization yesterday and I guess they came to this conclusion.

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/09/landmark-senate-judiciary-committee-hearing-yes-to-industry-banking-no-to-overzealous-federal-prosecution/

[Mr. Natural]

Webcasted some of the Senate meeting on the views of federal legalization yesterday and I guess they came to this conclusion.

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/09/landmark-senate-judiciary-committee-hearing-yes-to-industry-banking-no-to-overzealous-federal-prosecution/

I haven't made it through all of the hearing yet, but my gut reaction to "What is the feds' role?" is to let them patrol the state borders for pot on it's way out to states/jurisdictions that still think prohibition is a viable stance.

[emay]

Webcasted some of the Senate meeting on the views of federal legalization yesterday and I guess they came to this conclusion.

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/09/landmark-senate-judiciary-committee-hearing-yes-to-industry-banking-no-to-overzealous-federal-prosecution/

I haven't made it through all of the hearing yet, but my gut reaction to "What is the feds' role?" is to let them patrol the state borders for pot on it's way out to states/jurisdictions that still think prohibition is a viable stance.

pretty much they are gonna let the states that legalized it to try this out, and if they see any of it slip out of the states or go underground again in the states that its legalized, they will step in.

[Mr. Natural]

1.) Switzerland "decriminalizes" mj - although you can still be fined (?)
2.) Canada's commercial medical mj industry will be privatized, as of Tuesday.

[runawayjimbo]

When legalization starts getting mentioned in mainstream arenas like Bloomberg, you know this movement has legs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-01/marijuana-push-in-d-c-spurs-congress-to-weigh-legalizing.html

Marijuana Push in D.C. Spurs Congress to Weigh Legalizing

A proposal backed by most District of Columbia council members to decriminalize small amounts of pot may spur federal lawmakers to consider marijuana regulation for the first time since two states legalized recreational sales.

Congress has the power to block legislation approved by the Washington council. U.S. lawmakers can also stop local initiatives in the nation's capital through the federal budget, which authorizes the city's spending, as they did to stall the use of medical marijuana there for a decade.

The push to loosen local pot penalties, which few expect Congress to block, would set up what supporters say is the next step: legalizing recreational use. Growing support for legal pot and the billions in tax revenue and prison savings the change may bring has convinced some that Congress will ease laws.

"This is where you're going to see federal movement coming in the next year or two," said Erik Altieri, a spokesman for the Washington-based National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, which was founded in 1970.

Groups such as Norml and the DC Cannabis Campaign are considering a ballot initiative next year to legalize pot sales in the district. If approved, it would force Congress to consider an issue the federal government has mostly left to states. The hands-off approach has created a patchwork of laws ranging from Missouri, where possession of 35 grams, about 1.25 ounces, can mean seven years in prison, to Colorado and Washington state, which legalized recreational sales last year.

Gaining Support

For the first time, a majority of Americans now favor legalization, according to a Gallup Poll last week showing that support has increased 10 percentage points in one year.

Seventy-six percent of doctors worldwide favor using pot for medicinal purposes, according to a May poll published by the New England Journal of Medicine. Forty-eight percent of U.S. adults reported using it, according to a Pew Research Center survey.

While advocates, including the Washington-based Drug Policy Alliance, say the effects of pot are less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, the U.S. government maintains that marijuana can lead to serious mental-health issues.

"Legalization of marijuana, no matter how it begins, will come at the expense of our children and public safety," said an April report from the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. "It will create dependency and treatment issues, and open the door to use of other drugs, impaired health, delinquent behavior and drugged drivers."

Drug Arrests

Sale or possession of marijuana accounted for 48 percent of the 1.55 million drug arrests in the U.S. in 2012, Federal Bureau of Investigation data show. While drug busts have dropped, those for marijuana have risen by 18 percent since 2001, according a June report from the American Civil Liberties Union.

At the same time, racial disparities have increased, according to the report. In the U.S., pot use among whites and blacks is about the same, yet blacks are arrested for possession almost four times as often. In Washington, blacks accounted for 91 percent of marijuana arrests in 2010, even though they account for about half of the population of 632,000.

"We're saving thousands of black boys and a few girls from having a criminal record for small amounts of marijuana, and that's important because most employers won't consider you if they see an arrest record," said council member Marion Barry, referring to the proposal.

Prison Sentence

Barry is no stranger to drug laws. He was sentenced to six months in prison in 1990 for possession of crack cocaine while he was mayor. He said that experience hasn't informed his support for the pot proposal.

Barry wouldn't say whether he supported legalization. Asked whether that was the next step in D.C., he said, "Yes."

Estimates on a potential national marijuana market vary from $10 billion to $120 billion a year, with $35 billion to $45 billion being likely, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Tax collections from such sales could reach as much as $20 billion, according to a March report by Brad Barker, a Bloomberg Industries analyst, who cited projections by the Cato Institute, a nonprofit research group, and the Congressional Research Service.

When voters in Washington and Colorado legalized pot a year ago, they forced the federal government's hand. In an Aug. 29 memo, U.S. Deputy Attorney General James Cole said the Justice Department wouldn't intervene in the states' pot regulations, so long as they prevented out-of-state distribution, access to minors, impaired driving and kept revenue from going to gangs and cartels.

Tea Party

In Congress, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said in an Aug. 26 statement that "these state laws should be respected."

The Tea Party movement that helped restore Republican control in the House in 2010 included a wave of libertarian lawmakers who are more receptive to loosening marijuana regulation.

A House bill from California Republican Dana Rohrabacher to give state marijuana laws priority over the U.S. Controlled Substances Act has 20 co-sponsors, ranging from Arizona Democrat Raul Grijalva, among the most liberal members of Congress, to Justin Amash of Michigan and Steve Stockman of Texas, both Republicans aligned with the Tea Party movement.

Kentucky Grass

A triumvirate of Kentucky Republicans is backing proposals to allow farming of hemp, which U.S. law classifies the same as marijuana even though it has a non-intoxicating amount of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in the cannabis plant.

In the Senate, the measure has support from Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senator Rand Paul, a potential Republican presidential candidate in 2016. A third Kentucky lawmaker, Representative Thomas Massie, has 48 co-sponsors for the same bill in the House.

"We're seeing Congress move this way," Norml's Altieri said. "It's hard to see them really rolling back."

Rohrabacher said he doesn't expect his bill to pass until the Republican Party nominates a presidential candidate who supports marijuana legislation. The limited-government Tea Party movement increases the chances, he said.

"It all depends on whether or not, with this Tea Party group, we end up with a Republican that has courage enough to be more libertarian on the marijuana issue," Rohrabacher said.

Parking Ticket

The District of Columbia proposal to decriminalize possession of less than one ounce of marijuana has support from 10 of 12 local lawmakers and may get final approval in January, said council member Tommy Wells, who is sponsoring the measure.

Wells's plan would mean fines of $100 for small amounts of pot, instead of a maximum six months in prison. Wells said in an interview that he'll probably change his bill at a December hearing to reduce the fine to $25 -- the same as the punishment for parking at an expired meter.

Sixteen states have decriminalized first-time possession of small amounts of marijuana, according to Norml.

Once it passes the council and gets a signature from Mayor Vincent Gray, who supports it, Congress has 60 days to object with a disapproval resolution. Congress hasn't used that method since 1991, when lawmakers overturned a proposal to exceed a 110-foot height limit for downtown buildings.

When voters in the nation's capital were among the first in the U.S. to legalize medicinal marijuana in 1998, Congress prevented the district from spending money on the program for a decade with a budget rider.

There are now three dispensaries and three cultivation centers in the district, said Najma Roberts, a D.C. health department spokeswoman.

Both Wells and council member David Grosso said they'd back legalization in Washington, a question that two-thirds of district votes said they'd support, according to an April poll by Public Policy Polling. Neither Wells nor Grosso would venture a guess as to how Congress might respond.

"That fight would have national repercussions," Rohrabacher said.

[emay]

yes!

sounds like the right direction

[nab]

The private prison industry isn't going to go down without a fight.  I hope that the Tea Party members mentioned stick to their more libertarian ideals in this case, but they're going to get some blowback from the party establishment.   

[emay]

with the legalization of weed, they will find someway to still make the arrests/money from the american public....either weed DUIs or some other way