2016 Presidential Democratic Primary Thread

[runawayjimbo]

A 2% tax increase in exchange for free healthcare and college is no push, it would be a huge victory for all Americans. 

2% is the increase in income tax. That's on top of a 6.2% payroll tax (paid by employer but that would ultimately be passed on to workers through either lower wages or fewer jobs). But most health care economists - including a Dem and a left leaning think tank - say the math is just not there. And that's just on the direct costs alone, not to mention the externalities imposed by such a system. And that's only for health care. "Free" college would be financed by the Wall St transaction tax, which would only raise about a third of the revenue needed to fully fund the program. It also doesn't have enough incentive for states to get on board and would likely be met with fierce resistance given the massive disruption it would cause.

I think black voters just aren't familiar with Bernie and his policies, that doesn't mean they are stupid, just that they aren't making the most informed decision.

Seems like a pretty broad generalization to me. With all due respect, it's almost Drumpfesque. Sometimes people do what their pastor or rabbi tells them. Sometimes they listen to their friends. And sometimes they get caught up in the moment of a charismatic figure. Don't get me wrong, I agree with your premise that voters are (or at least can be) irrational, but I don't think it (necessarily) holds that they are voting against their interests. Their interests are just more complicated than we give them credit for.

Sadly Hillary can coast to a victory on the basis of brand loyalty, even though I don't think her politics are necessarily the same as Bill's.  It's s bit of a bait and switch, Democrats think they'll get the Clintons of the 90s when unfortunately that ship has sailed and been replaced by a far more corporate friendly version of governance.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[Hicks]

If you are suggesting black voters are getting swept up by Hillary's charisma, well, lol. 

Of course I'm making a broad generalization, I'm putting forward a hypothesis to explain why Bernie is getting virtually no votes from a demographic that would by and large benefit from his policies.  Especially in contrast to the corporate owned status quo that Hillary represents. 

If it's not PC to acknowledge that black voters, in general, tend to vote as a block in national elections, then I guess we can no longer discuss political reality? 

[runawayjimbo]

If you are suggesting black voters are getting swept up by Hillary's charisma, well, lol. 

No, of course not. Hillary has the energy of a second set Joy. I was referring to Trump. Or perhaps a certain other charismatic, transformational president...

Of course I'm making a broad generalization, I'm putting forward a hypothesis to explain why Bernie is getting virtually no votes from a demographic that would by and large benefit from his policies.  Especially in contrast to the corporate owned status quo that Hillary represents. 

If it's not PC to acknowledge that black voters, in general, tend to vote as a block in national elections, then I guess we can no longer discuss political reality? 

I don't mind the political reality. I just found the original point that a vote for Hillary is a vote against one's best interests as fairly dismissive of the unique considerations of black voters. For whatever reason, Bernie hasn't been able to connect with that demographic (much like Rubio was unable to connect his message with a critical bloc of his electorate). You seemed to be phrasing it as their problem, not his. That's all I'm taking issue with.

[Hicks]

Eh, I don't think middle class black voters interests are all that different from mine, with the huge exception of law enforcement issues/tactics, but that's an issue that for the most part needs to be tackled at a local level.  And as you've already pointed out, Bernie will be more proactive in ending the war on drugs, which is the federal piece of the puzzle.   

And yeah, it is our problem when we keep getting fooled into voting for candidates that represent the interests of big business and the ultra-wealthy first and foremost.   

[zimbra]

Well, it appears we should all stock up on popcorn now because the Hillary vs Trump debates are going to be theatrical!

[mbw]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[kellerb]

[VDB]

Why Black Voters Don't Feel the Bern

[mbw]

Why Black Voters Don't Feel the Bern

By: The Whitest Guy on Earth

Fyp.

[VDB]

Why Black Voters Don't Feel the Bern

By: The Whitest Guy on Earth

Fyp.

I just Googled him.

That is one white-looking dude.

Also, he apparently teaches in Canada.

[runawayjimbo]

An important and oft-overlooked point: maybe black voters aren't as receptive to the message that everything is fucked up and in need of a disruptive movement because they remain so fiercely loyal to Obama who keeps telling us Everything Is Awesome!!

Beyond these historic patterns, African-Americans today are fiercely loyal to Barack Obama and, as a result, tend to be more positive than whites about how well America is doing under Obama. Just as both Clintons discovered that black support for Obama in 2008 trumped the long friendship between most blacks and the Clintons, Sanders has seen that his criticism of President Obama as having "let progressives down" trumps his having been arrested at a Sixties civil rights protest.

[Superfreakie]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/rand-paul-back-trump-nominee-221463

[VDB]

So pathetic to see prominent politicians (or anyone else) reluctantly say they'd support Trump, whom they hate, because they hate Clinton more. Or vice versa. If ever there was a time when it would seem sensible to stand up and embrace the idea of a third-party/independent candidate, wouldn't it be now?


eta:

And why wouldn't Rand Paul, the libertarian-ish Republican, not feel emboldened enough to throw his support to former Republican and current Libertarian Gary Johnson? Does Paul really think the party would punish him for not supporting a nominee that the party itself doesn't even want? Does Paul really think Trump would be a better choice than Johnson?

[rowjimmy]

Struggling to care about what Rand Paul thinks...


Nope.
Can't do it.

[Hicks]

So pathetic to see prominent politicians (or anyone else) reluctantly say they'd support Trump, whom they hate, because they hate Clinton more. Or vice versa. If ever there was a time when it would seem sensible to stand up and embrace the idea of a third-party/independent candidate, wouldn't it be now?


eta:

And why wouldn't Rand Paul, the libertarian-ish Republican, not feel emboldened enough to throw his support to former Republican and current Libertarian Gary Johnson? Does Paul really think the party would punish him for not supporting a nominee that the party itself doesn't even want? Does Paul really think Trump would be a better choice than Johnson?

Possibly the most spineless "endorsement" I've ever seen. 

I'll endorse Trump, I guess, if. . .  IF he wins the nomination.