Political Vids/Images

[runawayjimbo]

protectionist trade policy is dangerous and self-defeating and ultimately most harmful to the very people it purports to benefit.

Are you saying that because of, like, North Korea, or other more gray-area countries where we've been able to isolate the effects of trade policy versus other economic variables? I don't have dogmatic views on this, so that's an honest inquiry.

Well, as you can probably imagine, I am a fairly dogmatic free trader so anything that restricts the flow of goods and capital is, IMO, inherently foolish.

Let's take Hicks' incredibly astute and (I hope!) tongue-in-cheek comment about U.S. iPhone assembly. I saw a study (can't find it now) that said around 2% of the iPhone's value creation comes from the actual manufacture. But the U.S. retains an overwhelming piece of the iPhone's contribution to the economy by employing people in the design, development, marketing, and retail of the product. Tack on the creation of an entirely new industry created by the App Store and Apple represents an overwhelming success story for the U.S. And that's without even considering the counterfactual of how much an iPhone would cost were it manufactured here.

And don't forget: free trade enhances international cooperation and harmony (I seem to remember a fairly significant event in our country's history over tariffs a couple hundred years ago). It is not a zero-sum game. Trade is absolutely critical to maintaining relations with the international community at large.

It may be good politics to say "bring our jobs home," but it's absolutely disastrous economics.

Also, issuing threats to private companies is highly unbecoming of the office of the president. Especially when conducted on Twitter FFS.

True, but if there's one thing both Trump and big companies have in common it's understanding the power and value of PR.
I'd also say, with respect to what's "unbecoming" of the POTUS, that Trump could easily (and, to no small degree, rightly) fire back that his comportment is what it is and he "won" nevertheless. Lots of people expect him to act exactly this way.

Of course. It doesn't mean he's right.

Also, my concern is more that we are becoming more comfortable allowing the president to single out and punish individual, private companies. The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

[VDB]

It may be good politics to say "bring our jobs home," but it's absolutely disastrous economics.

If "bringing jobs back" is so bad, then logically that should also mean that creating new ones at home (as opposed to opening a manufacturing plant abroad) would also be a bad move. Except how can that be?

(I'm also sure you're aware that that 2% iPhone anecdote is a bit self-fulfilling: the inherent cheapness of foreign supply chains is why it sits so low at 2%, and the fact that it sits so low at 2% is the argument for why the actual making of iPhones is too insignificant to fuss over. [Just an observation.])

The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

Well, yeah. And we're in for at least four years of seeing that, now that the shoe's on the other foot, conservatives/Republicans suddenly won't care about executive overreach and liberals/Democrats suddenly will.

[Hicks]

Moving shitty jobs that are in poor working conditions for pennies overseas back to the US and creating new jobs for skilled labor are hardly the same thing. 

[emay]

Moving shitty jobs that are in poor working conditions for pennies overseas back to the US and creating new jobs for skilled labor are hardly the same thing.

This. These companies now have to pay someone 9.25/hour to do the same thing they were paying someone 0.15/hour for in India. We will see how far these US plants get before they get canned. Creating jobs in a new industry like renewable energy or construction industry.

[mbw]

I look forward to the day when my son or daughter can get a low paying job making Nikes or iPhones right here in the good ol USA.

Well, why do they have to be shitty low paying jobs?  That's myth #1. They only are because we allow companies to make these products in countries which have little to no protection for their own citizen workers.
IMO it should be illegal for a US company to do business with/have products made by countries that have labor laws substandard to the ones that we enforce here, much less use essentially slave labor in countries that have little to no labor laws.  As the biggest consumers in the world we have the power to peacefully change the way other countries conduct business, and treat their own citizens.

I saw a study (can't find it now) that said around 2% of the iPhone's value creation comes from the actual manufacture. But the U.S. retains an overwhelming piece of the iPhone's contribution to the economy by employing people in the design, development, marketing, and retail of the product. Tack on the creation of an entirely new industry created by the App Store and Apple represents an overwhelming success story for the U.S. And that's without even considering the counterfactual of how much an iPhone would cost were it manufactured here.

Oh I know this study, its 2% actual manufacturing, 3% marketing, 5% development, and 90% greed.
There, you don't have to find it now.  That's Myth #2, that the price of Apple products would need to skyrocket.  Bullshit.  That company posted over 50 billion in profit in 2015.  Don't tell me that they can't afford to pay workers a livable wage in good work conditions, right here in the good ol USA and still post healthy profit margins.  Fuck the share holders. Power to the people.

See, here's where we part ways:  protectionist trade policy is dangerous and self-defeating and ultimately most harmful to the very people it purports to benefit. Also, issuing threats to private companies is highly unbecoming of the office of the president. Especially when conducted on Twitter FFS.

Lol.  Private companies threaten the government all the time.  "Give us tax breaks or we will move jobs out.  Lower these environmental restrictions or we will move jobs out.  Etc."  Fuck em, we the people make the rules.  It's about time someone let them know.  Want to send american jobs out of the country?  Fuck you pay me when you try and bring the goods back.

I'm glad we'll still find areas of disagreement for the next 4 years tho. Here I was thinking we were gonna be on the same side for once.  :-P

Not bloody likely you capitalist dog.

Also, my concern is more that we are becoming more comfortable allowing the president to single out and punish individual, private companies. The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

You don't seem to mind the relentless intervention and normalization of the corporate rule over the world. 
I found this clip of Jimbo debating Adam Sandler for some reason.

[Hicks]

Regardless of whether it pays $10 or $15 an hour, repetitive unskilled manufacturing jobs are not the future I want for my children or any American for that matter.

They can keep those jobs overseas, we don't need them back and let's be honest, if they did come back here they would probably be done by robots, so who does that help?

[rowjimmy]

Regardless of whether it pays $10 or $15 an hour, repetitive unskilled manufacturing jobs are not the future I want for my children or any American for that matter.

They can keep those jobs overseas, we don't need them back and let's be honest, if they did come back here they would probably be done by robots, so who does that help?

Exactly. Manufacturing that comes here, and even that which remains, is bound for automation. This means that education continues to be one of the most important tools to maintaining a viable economy. Good thing Trump nominated someone to be Sec. of Education who cares about... oh... whoops.
Someone has to program those machines to replace and eventually kill us all.

[emay]

Apparently we've been making new jobs every month already

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/news/economy/december-jobs-report-2016/index.html

[rowjimmy]

Apparently we've been making new jobs every month already

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/news/economy/december-jobs-report-2016/index.html

Every month for 75 months.

[emay]

Apparently we've been making new jobs every month already

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/news/economy/december-jobs-report-2016/index.html

Every month for 75 months.

Indeed.

[runawayjimbo]

It may be good politics to say "bring our jobs home," but it's absolutely disastrous economics.

If "bringing jobs back" is so bad, then logically that should also mean that creating new ones at home (as opposed to opening a manufacturing plant abroad) would also be a bad move. Except how can that be?

I'm not sure I follow that logic but in any case, Hicks already answered the question quite aptly below. I yield my time to Sir-Hicks-a-lot.

The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

Well, yeah. And we're in for at least four years of seeing that, now that the shoe's on the other foot, conservatives/Republicans suddenly won't care about executive overreach and liberals/Democrats suddenly will.

Yup, although liberals' best friends will likely be the handful of principled Republicans who oppose their party's agenda that others blindly follow. Justin Amash in the House and Rand Paul in the Senate (despite all the cred he lost when he jumped on the Trump Train) will be key leaders of this.

I look forward to the day when my son or daughter can get a low paying job making Nikes or iPhones right here in the good ol USA.

Well, why do they have to be shitty low paying jobs?  That's myth #1. They only are because we allow companies to make these products in countries which have little to no protection for their own citizen workers.
IMO it should be illegal for a US company to do business with/have products made by countries that have labor laws substandard to the ones that we enforce here, much less use essentially slave labor in countries that have little to no labor laws.  As the biggest consumers in the world we have the power to peacefully change the way other countries conduct business, and treat their own citizens.

This would be devastating to these developing countries and to American consumers alike. Probably spark a whole lot of int'l tension as well. How is that a good thing?

I saw a study (can't find it now) that said around 2% of the iPhone's value creation comes from the actual manufacture. But the U.S. retains an overwhelming piece of the iPhone's contribution to the economy by employing people in the design, development, marketing, and retail of the product. Tack on the creation of an entirely new industry created by the App Store and Apple represents an overwhelming success story for the U.S. And that's without even considering the counterfactual of how much an iPhone would cost were it manufactured here.

Oh I know this study, its 2% actual manufacturing, 3% marketing, 5% development, and 90% greed.
There, you don't have to find it now.  That's Myth #2, that the price of Apple products would need to skyrocket.  Bullshit.  That company posted over 50 billion in profit in 2015.  Don't tell me that they can't afford to pay workers a livable wage in good work conditions, right here in the good ol USA and still post healthy profit margins.  Fuck the share holders. Power to the people.

So are you also going to mandate what prices Apple can sell their product for? Because otherwise the increased cost is absloutely passed on to the consumer. That's not greed or my capitalist pigishness speaking; it's day 1 of any Econ class.

See, here's where we part ways:  protectionist trade policy is dangerous and self-defeating and ultimately most harmful to the very people it purports to benefit. Also, issuing threats to private companies is highly unbecoming of the office of the president. Especially when conducted on Twitter FFS.

Lol.  Private companies threaten the government all the time.  "Give us tax breaks or we will move jobs out.  Lower these environmental restrictions or we will move jobs out.  Etc."  Fuck em, we the people make the rules.  It's about time someone let them know.  Want to send american jobs out of the country?  Fuck you pay me when you try and bring the goods back.

The gov't is not entitled to anything that a private citizen or company does. But hey, things are going great in Venezuela, right? RIGHT?!?! (nice Goodfellas reference tho).

Also, my concern is more that we are becoming more comfortable allowing the president to single out and punish individual, private companies. The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

You don't seem to mind the relentless intervention and normalization of the corporate rule over the world. 

Sick burn

Regardless of whether it pays $10 or $15 an hour, repetitive unskilled manufacturing jobs are not the future I want for my children or any American for that matter.

They can keep those jobs overseas, we don't need them back and let's be honest, if they did come back here they would probably be done by robots, so who does that help?

Preach

[Hicks]

Oh shit, jimbo and I are on the same page.  The end is fucking nigh brahs. 

[runawayjimbo]

Oh shit, jimbo and I are on the same page.  The end is fucking nigh brahs.

DOGS AND CATS, LIVING TOGETHER

[Hicks]

The ironic thing is you know who would probably benefit from increased automation of manufacturing? 

Me, selling fucking robots will probably be my next job. 

[mbw]

I saw a study (can't find it now) that said around 2% of the iPhone's value creation comes from the actual manufacture. But the U.S. retains an overwhelming piece of the iPhone's contribution to the economy by employing people in the design, development, marketing, and retail of the product. Tack on the creation of an entirely new industry created by the App Store and Apple represents an overwhelming success story for the U.S. And that's without even considering the counterfactual of how much an iPhone would cost were it manufactured here.

Oh I know this study, its 2% actual manufacturing, 3% marketing, 5% development, and 90% greed.
There, you don't have to find it now.  That's Myth #2, that the price of Apple products would need to skyrocket.  Bullshit.  That company posted over 50 billion in profit in 2015.  Don't tell me that they can't afford to pay workers a livable wage in good work conditions, right here in the good ol USA and still post healthy profit margins.  Fuck the share holders. Power to the people.

So are you also going to mandate what prices Apple can sell their product for? Because otherwise the increased cost is absloutely passed on to the consumer. That's not greed or my capitalist pigishness speaking; it's day 1 of any Econ class.

no, i'm not mandating what apple or any company can sell their products for, i'm simply pointing out that there is no need to raise their prices as their profit margins are already sky high.
so they as a company could like, i dunno, make less money, and still be pretty set?  maybe like, not use slave labor and like, still be ok?  business ethics?

See, here's where we part ways:  protectionist trade policy is dangerous and self-defeating and ultimately most harmful to the very people it purports to benefit. Also, issuing threats to private companies is highly unbecoming of the office of the president. Especially when conducted on Twitter FFS.

Lol.  Private companies threaten the government all the time.  "Give us tax breaks or we will move jobs out.  Lower these environmental restrictions or we will move jobs out.  Etc."  Fuck em, we the people make the rules.  It's about time someone let them know.  Want to send american jobs out of the country?  Fuck you pay me when you try and bring the goods back.

The gov't is not entitled to anything that a private citizen or company does. But hey, things are going great in Venezuela, right? RIGHT?!?! (nice Goodfellas reference tho).

Have you never heard of Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution?  Or do you libertarian types block that from your memory like that visit from Uncle Touchy when you were 4.

Also, my concern is more that we are becoming more comfortable allowing the president to single out and punish individual, private companies. The relentless intervention and normalization of executive power is something I opposed under Obama and I will continue to do so under this dickbag.

You don't seem to mind the relentless intervention and normalization of the corporate rule over the world. 

Sick burn

well?