When Bush took office...

[flufhed]

The average cost of gas was $1.79...   

[sophist]

Again, another fallacy based on faulty logic. 

Simply looking at past figures and juxtaposing them to current figures is inaccurate.  Your failing to take into account a variety of economic and financial factors.  First off, any oil in the Middle East that is drilled and then sold is taxed heavily by OPEC.  OPEC is the problem and why gas prices continue to rise.  Like any middle man, they are nuance to the market.  While the profits of oil companies are high, the figures fail to gauge the relative cost of business.  If you examine the profit margins of the oil companies, you will see that their margin of profit per dollar spent is lower than any other industry, thus making the argument one built on faulty logic (envy always sparks feelings of resentment).  The president doesn't set the oil price, nor does he control the terms of the private sector (Republiterds always blame former President Carter for the stagflation of the late 70's, this is in fact the same faulty logic you are using now).  The oil market is far more complex than simply "blame Bush."   

[flufhed]

Again, another fallacy based on faulty logic. 

Simply looking at past figures and juxtaposing them to current figures is inaccurate.  Your failing to take into account a variety of economic and financial factors.  First off, any oil in the Middle East that is drilled and then sold is taxed heavily by OPEC.  OPEC is the problem and why gas prices continue to rise.  Like any middle man, they are nuance to the market.  While the profits of oil companies are high, the figures fail to gauge the relative cost of business.  If you examine the profit margins of the oil companies, you will see that their margin of profit per dollar spent is lower than any other industry, thus making the argument one built on faulty logic (envy always sparks feelings of resentment).  The president doesn't set the oil price, nor does he control the terms of the private sector (Republiterds always blame former President Carter for the stagflation of the late 70's, this is in fact the same faulty logic you are using now).  The oil market is far more complex than simply "blame Bush."   

What ever happened to the responsibility of the president to ensure the best interests of his citizens (not just the rich white ones who voted for him)?  OPEC and the Middle East is where the problem begins, but Bush does nothing to pressure Exxon to lower their prices as if their billions in profits are somehow affecting him personally.  Oh wait...they are.  We have never had a president so invested in oil.  Gee...that must be a coincidence then that Bush's family always has been and probably always will be in oil money...and we are paying twice for a gallon of gas today then when he took office.  Supply...demand...global markets...these things all have an effect...but he has done nothing to discourage it.

[sls.stormyrider]

OK
I'll make this easy.
There was a budget surplus

[flufhed]

OK
I'll make this easy.
There was a budget surplus

Yeah what happened to that anyway?  Those aren't supposed to turn into the largest deficits in history are they?  Could it be the billions a year wasted in Iraq?  Where there's oil?

[sophist]

What ever happened to the responsibility of the president to ensure the best interests of his citizens (not just the rich white ones who voted for him)?  OPEC and the Middle East is where the problem begins, but Bush does nothing to pressure Exxon to lower their prices as if their billions in profits are somehow affecting him personally.  Oh wait...they are.  We have never had a president so invested in oil.  Gee...that must be a coincidence then that Bush's family always has been and probably always will be in oil money...and we are paying twice for a gallon of gas today then when he took office.  Supply...demand...global markets...these things all have an effect...but he has done nothing to discourage it.

01) The "rich white people" of this country make up a minority of this country (check out the wealth distribution), so it was poor people who also voted for Bush, which makes your point moot: Bush is scratching the back of those that elected him.  Again, the reality of it is that the DNC couldn't beat Bush, which is pathetic in my opinion.   

02) Market intervention by the government for regulating prices already occurs.  Only the government taxes the corporations which jacks up the oil prices (the companies have to incur that price, which hurts us: the consumer).  This is part of the cost for social programs, which I don't mind paying for.  Again, read my point: your failing to into account various economic and financial factors when comparing past gas prices with current prices.  Inflation, the value of the dollar, and a market in the shitter all contribute to different prices today than in 2000-2001.   

03) Micheal Moore has and never will be a credible source.  So please seek other sources for actual facts, as Moore has distorted reality more than Bush, which has hurt Moore's cause and in effect damaged the democratic party.  Not everything that is wrong today is the result of Bush, and believe that is an easy sell, but it isn't reality.    (I assume your citing Moore here, as he is the popular choice)

[flufhed]

What ever happened to the responsibility of the president to ensure the best interests of his citizens (not just the rich white ones who voted for him)?  OPEC and the Middle East is where the problem begins, but Bush does nothing to pressure Exxon to lower their prices as if their billions in profits are somehow affecting him personally.  Oh wait...they are.  We have never had a president so invested in oil.  Gee...that must be a coincidence then that Bush's family always has been and probably always will be in oil money...and we are paying twice for a gallon of gas today then when he took office.  Supply...demand...global markets...these things all have an effect...but he has done nothing to discourage it.

01) The "rich white people" of this country make up a minority of this country (check out the wealth distribution), so it was poor people who also voted for Bush, which makes your point moot: Bush is scratching the back of those that elected him.  Again, the reality of it is that the DNC couldn't beat Bush, which is pathetic in my opinion.   

02) Market intervention by the government for regulating prices already occurs.  Only the government taxes the corporations which jacks up the oil prices (the companies have to incur that price, which hurts us: the consumer).  This is part of the cost for social programs, which I don't mind paying for.  Again, read my point: your failing to into account various economic and financial factors when comparing past gas prices with current prices.  Inflation, the value of the dollar, and a market in the shitter all contribute to different prices today than in 2000-2001.   

03) Micheal Moore has and never will be a credible source.  So please seek other sources for actual facts, as Moore has distorted reality more than Bush, which has hurt Moore's cause and in effect damaged the democratic party.  Not everything that is wrong today is the result of Bush, and believe that is an easy sell, but it isn't reality.    (I assume your citing Moore here, as he is the popular choice)

Wow...I guess I have been told then.  There are those with different opinions and that used to be what made this country the best...what is really fact though?  Facts are in the eye of the beholder...

This has been a fun first day for me on week4paug.net...I need to go to sleep...

[sophist]

What ever happened to the responsibility of the president to ensure the best interests of his citizens (not just the rich white ones who voted for him)?  OPEC and the Middle East is where the problem begins, but Bush does nothing to pressure Exxon to lower their prices as if their billions in profits are somehow affecting him personally.  Oh wait...they are.  We have never had a president so invested in oil.  Gee...that must be a coincidence then that Bush's family always has been and probably always will be in oil money...and we are paying twice for a gallon of gas today then when he took office.  Supply...demand...global markets...these things all have an effect...but he has done nothing to discourage it.

01) The "rich white people" of this country make up a minority of this country (check out the wealth distribution), so it was poor people who also voted for Bush, which makes your point moot: Bush is scratching the back of those that elected him.  Again, the reality of it is that the DNC couldn't beat Bush, which is pathetic in my opinion.   

02) Market intervention by the government for regulating prices already occurs.  Only the government taxes the corporations which jacks up the oil prices (the companies have to incur that price, which hurts us: the consumer).  This is part of the cost for social programs, which I don't mind paying for.  Again, read my point: your failing to into account various economic and financial factors when comparing past gas prices with current prices.  Inflation, the value of the dollar, and a market in the shitter all contribute to different prices today than in 2000-2001.   

03) Micheal Moore has and never will be a credible source.  So please seek other sources for actual facts, as Moore has distorted reality more than Bush, which has hurt Moore's cause and in effect damaged the democratic party.  Not everything that is wrong today is the result of Bush, and believe that is an easy sell, but it isn't reality.    (I assume your citing Moore here, as he is the popular choice)

Wow...I guess I have been told then.  There are those with different opinions and that used to be what made this country the best...what is really fact though?  Facts are in the eye of the beholder...

This has been a fun first day for me on week4paug.net...I need to go to sleep...

Opinions are relative to the beholder, facts are objective. 

Example -> how the government should be involved in governing people = opinion
           -> Oil prices and Election results = facts

Well, enjoy your sleep and see you next time. 

[rowjimmy]

I'd like to point out that what he stated here:

When Bush took office...
The average cost of gas was $1.79...   

Is not a fallacy based on faulty logic.

It is a statement that "At the time of X, Y  was happening."

He implied something but left it wide open to interpretation. You interpreted it as an opportunity to jump on him.

What you could have done was corrected his data.

Brief research via Google indicates that at Jan. 1, 2001, according to the Energy Information Administration the average retail price of regular-grade gasoline was $1.406

[flufhed]

I'd like to point out that what he stated here:

When Bush took office...
The average cost of gas was $1.79...   

Is not a fallacy based on faulty logic.

It is a statement that "At the time of X, Y  was happening."

He implied something but left it wide open to interpretation. You interpreted it as an opportunity to jump on him.

What you could have done was corrected his data.

Brief research via Google indicates that at Jan. 1, 2001, according to the Energy Information Administration the average retail price of regular-grade gasoline was $1.406

Thanks Bro...  I could have used you last night when I was getting beat up on my first day on the site!!! 

[antelope19]

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I mean no harm, but politics can be a tough way to introduce yourself anywhere, let alone at the 'paug.  People are passionate about this stuff!   :-D 

[flufhed]

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I mean no harm, but politics can be a tough way to introduce yourself anywhere, let alone at the 'paug.  People are passionate about this stuff!   :-D 

Hey Antelope...I am passionate about my politics too!  I was living on Long Island when Bush first took office and told all my friends they better get the f outta dodge cause this dude running the country was bad news...and instead of taking a job in NYC after I graduated I moved to Ohio.  Then 9/11 happened...  And isn't it amazing that after 9/11 much of the world was our ally and now most of the world laughs at us?  And it all comes down to W...possibly the worst thing to ever happen to our country.

I try to make as much of a difference as I can by talking about this with people I know...and I would not shy away from it here.

I am also passionate about music, a life-long Phish head for sure.  I am passionate about sports, women, weed and a good jam.  I think I will fit in just fine around here!  I can take the beatings from Sophist as long as some others are around to back me up!

[Hicks]

Explain away this one phan:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/27/clinton.surplus/

[G. Augusto]

I was living on Long Island

Where on LI?
a

[flufhed]

I was living on Long Island

Where on LI?
a

Stony Brook  :wink:  Finished up my Bachelor's there after screwing around in Colorado and doing everything but going to school...