Furthur

[sophist]

ROTFLMAO

seriously.  If you think Garcia is noodling you know nothing about music theory.  Fucking nothing. 

Go listen to an Other One from 73.  Any fucking one.  Jerry will play in 7/4 while the rest of the band is in 12/8. 

Jerry's "noodling" is actually a long cadence where there is tension, then resolution.  And for your information, he didn't focus on the root, it was the leading tone.  that's the last note in the scale.  It's why he hits "G" when the rest of the band plays A major in Dark Star. 

Slipknot alone debunks the whole he uses one scale argument.  Seriously, this is laughable.  Slipknot has more modulations and jazz changes than Stash.  Trey even admits Stash was inspired by Slipknot (Guitar world 2004 interview). 

finally, did you just compare a trumpet player to a guitarist.

This is like comparing the work of town councilman to a state governor.   You might like jazz and enjoy it, but based on what you have posted here, you don't know a thing about it.  The minor second turn around is in plenty of dead jams, Keith was all about it, and Jerry would play off it.  Go listen to any 74 eyes or playing, it's in there dude. 

[thatfargone]

I can see that Superfreakie which is why when Hicks started the "debate" I offered immediate clarification and each post since then was an elaboration of what I meant.

Anyhow, I just wondered what sophist thought about Jerry's playing so perhaps we could have an educated discussion about his technique, perhaps gaining a different perspective, didn't want to piss everyone off by putting down Jerry.

EDIT: and by reading his rely, I am done with this thread for sure.

[sophist]

I can see that Superfreakie which is why when Hicks started the "debate" I offered immediate clarification and each post since then was an elaboration of what I meant.

Anyhow, I just wondered what sophist thought about Jerry's playing so perhaps we could have an educated discussion about his technique, perhaps gaining a different perspective, didn't want to piss everyone off by putting down Jerry.

EDIT: and by reading his rely, I am done with this thread for sure.

I'm all for educated discussion, but when you come out guns swinging and stating shit that is so far from reality, well I'm gonna call you out about it. 

Simple fact, Garcia was a brilliant musician and a cultural icon.  Together make him a legend. 

[Hicks]

I wasn't pissed, just dumbfounded.

And I think if it wasn't me, somebody else would have begged to differ with your post pretty quickly.

It's no biggie in mind though.

[Superfreakie]

well this most certainly livened up my Thursday afternoon. 

[sophist]

Yeah, if you don't like his playing, that's one thing.  It's not for everybody.  I understand and respect that.  My beef is that you presented this argument that's just factually wrong.  I don't see how anyone that knows music theory could dismiss Garcia so quickly.  I don't like Steve Vai at all, but I recognize his skills are in the upper tier of guitarists.  That he is very talented. 

I put Jerry up there because of his style and his musical intelligence.  The cliche way to play over an A major chord is to start with the tonic in rock music, and then hit the third or fifth in an ascending manner, but Jerry doesn't do that.  He may come in on the second beat and then lead with 7th note, and imply the next chord with an arpeggio, then switch scales entirely.  My favorite part about his playing in Dark Star is how he uses D,G, and A scales.  He jumps seamlessly from scale to scale too.  9/19/70 is a prime example of this.  Listen to what he does after the "space" riff which is in E minor, he then modulates back in to A major and the tension gets resolved so quickly. 

[thatfargone]

I see where you all are coming from and I do apologize if I was unclear.  I also can admit I am over simplifying his playing for sure but I simply feel he is overrated by many fans of his music.

I also appreciate your description of what you like about his playing sophist, that is what I was looking for.  I understand what you are describing.  And, on that note your description of his use of G during Dark Star....well Dark Star is a great example of his use of the myxolydian actually.

EDIT: Hm...surely I didn't get karma from posting in here :?

[guyforget]

looks like superfreakie gave you a +

[Superfreakie]

EDIT: Hm...surely I didn't get karma from posting in here :?

I gave you a karma point because it takes balls to come on a thread pertaining to the GD and front an opinion that is contrary to that of most of its posters. But, and as I have learned in the past through experience, you better be clear and concise or its going to get ugly. And, if it does get ugly, stand forth, don't bend, and refrain from being nasty, which was somewhat relatively achieved by all. If this occurs, then we have ourselves a discussion that successfully chews up a hundred or so man hours of productivity from those who employ us. Which is in essence the object of this board.

[sophist]

I still think the most offensive thing in here is that horse face photo of Sandra Bullock.   :wink:

[thatfargone]

I still think the most offensive thing in here is that horse face photo of Sandra Bullock.   :wink:

LOL!  Yeah, I need to change that.  Run its course.

[JPhishman]

haha....I'm really interested to see how I will react to fake Jerry come Tuesday Monday night....

FYP

Pretty sure it's gonna kick ass

[JPhishman]

While I understand what Sophist is talking about.... and am impressed by his ability to articulate it, the theory stuff is a little over my head. Nonetheless, I freaking love Jerry. The man just played with such emotion. Such soul. I always thought his phrasing was great. The Wolf speaks in full sentences with proper capitalization and punctuation. If only I could have experienced his stage presence just once....

I have often said that if I was reincarnated and hear Jerry's playing I will instinctively recognize it as his in my new life from the way his sound has pervaded my soul in this one.....

[sls.stormyrider]

I don't play guitar, so I can't comment on how easy or difficult it is to "copy" his solos. Certainly, Jerry wasn't the speed demon that Vai is or Zappa was.
But that's not what music is about.
It's about emotion, feeling, and originality.
Jerry's solos may (or may not) be simple to reproduce. But he thought of them, he played them, he created a sound like no other.
Someone mentioned Miles. My guess is that it's pretty easy to copy any of Miles' solos and replay them. There are a lot of trumpet players who can play faster and higher on the scale. I dare you to find somone who would have come up with that stuff on his / her own. Or, make you feel the same way as Miles could. Same with Jerry.

That along with the feeling and emotion comunicated, is what makes a great musician.

[thatfargone]

That along with the feeling and emotion comunicated, is what makes a great musician.

Indeed. Not necessarily a great guitarist.... :evil:  Which I do feel are mutually exclusive.

My Miles reference was just to give some people my idea of "perfect" phrasing for comparison sake,  not really trying to compare them as musicians. Although, in that regard, I feel both were similarly outstanding band leaders (even though Jerry didn't accept any credit on that front.)